Gator fans smell like **** thread

#578
#578
Gatornator said:
Mississippi state has not won a championship in ANYTHING. MSU is just not and never will be an Elite school in college football, or any sport really. There are limits to what any coach, no matter how elite he is, is gonna achieve at MSU. If you are going to judge Mullen by his tenure at MSU, at least compare his performance there to former coaches at MSU.

- Mississippi State is 69-46 and was once ranked No. 1 under Mullen. In the eight seasons before his arrival MSU was 32-65, and was never ranked higher than No. 7 in the program’s history.
- Mississippi State won nine games in a season three times under Mullen. Before his arrival, the Bulldogs won nine games in a season four times in 100-plus years.
- Mississippi State achieved bowl-eligible status for eight straight seasons under Mullen. Before his arrival, the Bulldogs’ previous record was three consecutive seasons.
- Mississippi State clinched its eighth consecutive bowl appearance under Mullen, a feat than can only be appreciated when considering that they’d made eight bowls in the previous 29 years.

You don't achieve elite results at a doormat school. You start there, turn it around, and then land an elite job.
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You're not going to be able to convince many people here that Mullen is a good coach and that what he did at Miss St was impressive. People are unable or unwilling to grade on a curve or take into consideration a coach's record in light of the lack of resources available to them at a particular school.

What Mullen did at Miss St is the equivalent of a major school (Alabama, Ohio St, Oklahoma, etc.) winning multiple national championships over the same timeframe. Miss St has finished more seasons in the top 25 than Tennessee has since 2009. Made 8 straight bowl games. Went to a BCS bowl and was ranked #1 for multiple weeks in 2014. And all of this was achieved with a fraction of the resources and playing in the most difficult division in CFB at the time. To say he hit Miss St's ceiling while he was there is an understatement.
 
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#579
#579
05_never_again said:
You're not going to be able to convince many people here that Mullen is a good coach and that what he did at Miss St was impressive. People are unable or unwilling to grade on a curve or take into consideration a coach's record in light of the lack of resources available to them at a particular school.

What Mullen did at Miss St is the equivalent of a major school (Alabama, Ohio St, Oklahoma, etc.) winning multiple national championships over the same timeframe. Miss St has finished more seasons in the top 25 than Tennessee has since 2009. Made 8 straight bowl games. Went to a BCS bowl and was ranked #1 for multiple weeks in 2014. And all of this was achieved with a fraction of the resources and playing in the most difficult division in CFB at the time. To say he hit Miss St's ceiling while he was there is an understatement.
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Agreed. Just for the sake of Apples to Apples comparison, look at Mississippi state this year compared to last year. They are returning many players from last year, and Fitz was even looking like a Heisman candidate. This year... he is ready to be benched, and team is lucky to go 6-6. Miss St has regressed significantly from last year, and UF has improved significantly.

UF this year played Miss St at their home, and Miss St is probably fielding their most talented team in years, and yet lost to UF who is fielding one of their least talented teams in decades. UF's floor just played Miss St's ceiling, and they beat them in Starkville.

Will Mullen win a championship? I don't know. His only weakness is recruiting (although his 2018 transition class is one of the best in UF history), and I am hopeful with a better field product, we will improve on that.
 
#580
#580
Lawrence Wright said:
You don’t want to be convinced.
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So...
You don’t think he’s elite either.

Cool

Edit: having a conversation about an interesting topic is kinda the point of the message board. Unless you think there are winners and losers in this debate. We won’t get an answer to this question for at least 3 years so all that’s left is opinion. Mines different than yours so state your case.


Except I’m stating to think we’re not having the same conversation. To me the standard is championships and if Mullen can win them. You seem to be arguing that him being a good coach (which I agree he is) and winning a lot of games is good enough. I clearly disagree.
 
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#582
#582
Gatornator said:
Agreed. Just for the sake of Apples to Apples comparison, look at Mississippi state this year compared to last year. They are returning many players from last year, and Fitz was even looking like a Heisman candidate. This year... he is ready to be benched, and team is lucky to go 6-6. Miss St has regressed significantly from last year, and UF has improved significantly.
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Yep, and Mullen left Moorhead a loaded roster. He left the program in really good shape.
 
#583
#583
Lawrence Wright said:
You realize you keep flip flopping between “elite” and “better than good”.

Don’t break your back repositioning that goalpost.
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Championships are the goal and where the posts set.

I don’t think he can win them but believe he’ll win a lot of games. That won’t cut it at Florida but would last longer here.
 
#585
#585
Orangeslice13 said:
Championships are the goal and where the posts set.
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No it isn't. Depends on the school.

To pick another school as a different example...Illinois isn't trying to win championships in football. Neither is Wyoming. Neither is Syracuse. Neither is Kansas. They should be measured by a different standard. Are their coaches all failures or highly overrated if they ascend the program to heights it never reached before, but fall short of a title?

You're a fan of a big time school with championship aspirations, so you're assuming every other school is on the same plane and should have identical expectations. This isn't professional sports.

Mullen shouldn't be measured by championships at Miss St. He should be, and will be, measured by championships at Florida. They are two totally different programs.
 
#586
#586
05_never_again said:
No it isn't. Depends on the school.

To pick another school as a different example...Illinois isn't trying to win championships in football. Neither is Wyoming. Neither is Syracuse. Neither is Kansas. They should be measured by a different standard. Are their coaches all failures or highly overrated if they ascend the program to heights it never reached before, but fall short of a title?

You're a fan of a big time school with championship aspirations, so you're assuming every other school is on the same plane and should have identical expectations. This isn't professional sports.

Mullen shouldn't be measured by championships at Miss St. He should be, and will be, measured by championships at Florida. They are two totally different programs.
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Have you been paying attention?

The entirety of this conversation between me and them is about championships.

I’ve stated over and over he’s a good coach but I don’t think he can win championships.

That’s the whole debate.
 
#587
#587
Florida would not pay 6 mil a year for win more than you lose.
If there’s no championships after 4 years his seat will be very hot
 
#588
#588
Orangeslice13 said:
Have you been paying attention?

The entirety of this conversation between me and them is about championships.

I’ve stated over and over he’s a good coach but I don’t think he can win championships.

That’s the whole debate.
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You also asked rhetorically which championship Mullen won with his #1 ranking at Miss St, as if to suggest that since he didn't win any titles there, what he did there either isn't impressive or overrated.

For a variety of reasons that people have laid out in this thread, I think what he did there was really impressive considering the circumstances and resources he had.

Him not winning titles at Miss St and him not winning titles at Florida are two totally different situations. If he doesn't win division, conference, and perhaps national titles at Florida he'll be gone eventually. But it is unfair and just kind of ignorant to judge him by that standard at Miss St.
 
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#589
#589
05_never_again said:
You also asked rhetorically which championship Mullen won with his #1 ranking at Miss St, as if to suggest that since he didn't win any titles there, what he did there either isn't impressive or overrated.

For a variety of reasons that people have laid out in this thread, I think what he did there was really impressive considering the circumstances and resources he had.

Him not winning titles at Miss St and him not winning titles at Florida are two totally different situations. If he doesn't win division, conference, and perhaps national titles at Florida he'll be gone eventually. But it is unfair and just kind of ignorant to judge him by that standard at Miss St.
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Fair enough but the titles question was in response to him being ranked #1. If he can be ranked #1 why didn’t he finish? Or do we only look at what we think supports our point?

If you can claim being ranked #1 at some point is an accomplishment then why didn’t he finish #1? Or is it the same as being ahead at half time? Kinda irrelevant to the decision of who won and who lost
 
#590
#590
Orangeslice13 said:
Fair enough but the titles question was in response to him being ranked #1. If he can be ranked #1 why didn’t he finish? Or do we only look at what we think supports our point?

If you can claim being ranked #1 at some point is an accomplishment then why didn’t he finish #1? Or is it the same as being ahead at half time? Kinda irrelevant to the decision of who won and who lost
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I think it's a huge accomplishment at Mississippi State. If Mullen went 69-46, had one BCS berth, and was ranked #1 briefly at, say, Oklahoma or Ohio St over a 10 year period, it wouldn't be impressive at all.

Again, you have to grade on a curve in these situations. College football isn't the NFL. These teams and programs aren't on a level playing field. When Mullen was at Miss St, he had the program running way over its head. That's basically a fact. You're judging Miss St as if it is a traditional power-type of program. That's like negatively judging a sportscar on the basis of something like towing capacity or legroom in the backseat, or negatively judging a pickup truck on the basis of its 0-60 time or how it handles relative to a sports car.
 
#591
#591
05_never_again said:
I think it's a huge accomplishment at Mississippi State. If Mullen went 69-46, had one BCS berth, and was ranked #1 briefly at, say, Oklahoma or Ohio St over a 10 year period, it wouldn't be impressive at all.

Again, you have to grade on a curve in these situations. College football isn't the NFL. These teams and programs aren't on a level playing field. When Mullen was at Miss St, he had the program running way over its head. That's basically a fact. You're judging Miss St as if it is a traditional power-type of program. That's like negatively judging a sportscar on the basis of something like towing capacity or legroom in the backseat, or negatively judging a pickup truck on the basis of its 0-60 time or how it handles relative to a sports car.
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He doesn't want to be convinced, he wants to be right.

Since Mullen never won championships at Mississippi State, it's painfully obvious he will never win championships anywhere.

Florida fans will become impatient no later than the end of the UGA game this Saturday, calling for his head during the post-game call-in show.

And if he doesn't win a championship at Florida within the next 4 years, he will be fired.

There is no other outcome.
 
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#592
#592
Lawrence Wright said:
He doesn't want to be convinced, he wants to be right.

Since Mullen never won championships at Mississippi State, it's painfully obvious he will never win championships anywhere.

Florida fans will become impatient no later than the end of the UGA game this Saturday, calling for his head during the post-game call-in show.

And if he doesn't win a championship at Florida within the next 4 years, he will be fired.

There is no other outcome.
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05_never_again said:
I think it's a huge accomplishment at Mississippi State. If Mullen went 69-46, had one BCS berth, and was ranked #1 briefly at, say, Oklahoma or Ohio St over a 10 year period, it wouldn't be impressive at all.

Again, you have to grade on a curve in these situations. College football isn't the NFL. These teams and programs aren't on a level playing field. When Mullen was at Miss St, he had the program running way over its head. That's basically a fact. You're judging Miss St as if it is a traditional power-type of program. That's like negatively judging a sportscar on the basis of something like towing capacity or legroom in the backseat, or negatively judging a pickup truck on the basis of its 0-60 time or how it handles relative to a sports car.
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While all true I’m not impressed with what he accomplished at state. I’d be less impressed if it happened at the other schools he mentioned. I’ve held this position since he was rumored to be in the mix at Tennessee.
 
#593
#593
Lawrence Wright said:
He doesn't want to be convinced, he wants to be right.

Since Mullen never won championships at Mississippi State, it's painfully obvious he will never win championships anywhere.

Florida fans will become impatient no later than the end of the UGA game this Saturday, calling for his head during the post-game call-in show.

And if he doesn't win a championship at Florida within the next 4 years, he will be fired.

There is no other outcome.
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There’s no right or wrong here Larry. At least none we will know about for 4-5 years. It’s all just opinion at this point. If you can’t handle someone having a different one than you then maybe you should bow out
 
#594
#594
Orangeslice13 said:
While all true I’m not impressed with what he accomplished at state. I’d be less impressed if it happened at the other schools he mentioned. I’ve held this position since he was rumored to be in the mix at Tennessee.
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You do realize that what Mullen did at Miss St is the equivalent of a major program winning multiple national titles over the same period, right?

That does not mean Mullen will win multiple titles or even a single title at Florida. What it does mean is that Mullen broke the ceiling of what was thought to be achievable at Miss St.
 
#595
#595
05_never_again said:
You do realize that what Mullen did at Miss St is the equivalent of a major program winning multiple national titles over the same period, right?

That does not mean Mullen will win multiple titles or even a single title at Florida. What it does mean is that Mullen broke the ceiling of what was thought to be achievable at Miss St.
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In your opinion it’s like he won titles.
I don’t see anyone in the media treating him like saban or Meyer.
Some think he did better than anyone before him at state but still wasn’t good enough to be considered an elite coach.
 
#596
#596
Orangeslice13 said:
There’s no right or wrong here Larry. At least none we will know about for 4-5 years. It’s all just opinion at this point. If you can’t handle someone having a different one than you then maybe you should bow out
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There are informed opinions and uninformed opinions.

If you are not impressed with what Mullen accomplished at MSU, based on criteria that no other coach has delivered while coaching at MSU, it’s clear you simply don’t want to be impressed.

And that’s okay. This thread has evolved from Mullen being on par with Butch Jones in the pre-season, to Mullen not being “elite” enough for UF to be patient and give him 4-5 to build the program to a consistent national championship contender.

At the end of the day, this UF fan is cool with where we are. You and I both know if Mullen had UT in a similar situation following a 4-win season you’d be ready to crown him as the next Saban/Meyer/Rockne.
 
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#599
#599
Lawrence Wright said:
There are informed opinions and uninformed opinions.

If you are not impressed with what Mullen accomplished at MSU, based on criteria that no other coach has delivered while coaching at MSU, it’s clear you simply don’t want to be impressed.

And that’s okay. This thread has evolved from Mullen being on par with Butch Jones in the pre-season, to Mullen not being “elite” enough for UF to be patient and give him 4-5 to build the program to a consistent national championship contender.

At the end of the day, this UF fan is cool with where we are. You and I both know if Mullen had UT in a similar situation following a 4-win season you’d be ready to crown him as the next Saban/Meyer/Rockne.
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I think Mullen being on par with Butch Jones is beyond stupid. Even if I did just make a moral victory joke. I wasn’t involved in the earlier conversation because I felt it was silly.

As the thread evolved I became involved as the topic became interesting to me.

If you would rather argue about the Jones comparison be my guest. I don’t need to be a part of that.
 
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