Good news regarding jobs

[MG1968]

best economic news since Obama's been in office

Unions see sharp membership declines again - Yahoo! Finance

The nation's labor unions saw another steep decline in membership last year, even as the economy showed signs of recovery and job losses slowed.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday that unions lost 612,000 members in 2010, dropping the unionized share of the work force to 11.9 percent from 12.3 percent in 2009. That follows a loss of 771,000 workers in 2008, continuing a steady decline from the 1950s when more than a third of workers belonged to unions.

also, a majority of all union jobs are public sector.

 

[myrobbins7]

They cant die off fast enough...

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

Giant ponzi scheme being unwound

 

[JayVols]

best economic news since Obama's been in office

Unions see sharp membership declines again - Yahoo! Finance



also, a majority of all union jobs are public sector.

I have an honest question. I recognize that corruption exists in unions. I am not blind. I also recognize that there is corruption in the corporate world as well. My father was a hard working maintenence man that was a member of the Aluminum, Brick, and Glass Workers Union. I have seen unions keep deadbeats in their job, but I have also seen unions help workers that were unjustly terminated. Now to my question, actually questions: What is wrong with management and labor sitting down and working out a mutually beneficial contract? AND Could you please explain the animosity that is rampant on this board and in conservatism in general towards unions?
I am not trying to be confrontational. I truly would like to understand your (and the general conservative's) reasoning on this issue. Thanks in advance.
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[MG1968]

I don't like the idea of paying to belong to an organization that purports to "speak for me" and if I don't agree with what they're saying, I'm to keep my mouth shut or I lose my job and get blacklisted from other work.

Modern unions exist only to create friction between the line worker, teacher, etc. and management. Take a look at the UAW contract with Ford/GM/Chrysler. It's nearly as thick as the IRS code. If I spill my coffee, I can damn well clean it up.

I've been driving a truck for a living for over 15 years. I know that union drivers at the same experience level usually get paid more than I do, but that doesn't bother me. At any time, I can ask to see my immediate supervisor, his supervisor the warehouse manager, and so on. I do not need to have my concerns filtered through a shop steward who is also working on his own agenda.

 

[JayVols]

I don't like the idea of paying to belong to an organization that purports to "speak for me" and if I don't agree with what they're saying, I'm to keep my mouth shut or I lose my job and get blacklisted from other work.

Modern unions exist only to create friction between the line worker, teacher, etc. and management. Take a look at the UAW contract with Ford/GM/Chrysler. It's nearly as thick as the IRS code. If I spill my coffee, I can damn well clean it up.

I've been driving a truck for a living for over 15 years. I know that union drivers at the same experience level usually get paid more than I do, but that doesn't bother me. At any time, I can ask to see my immediate supervisor, his supervisor the warehouse manager, and so on. I do not need to have my concerns filtered through a shop steward who is also working on his own agenda.

Thanks. Many things that you mention were not a part of my dad's and my experiences. He always had a say in the form of a vote on the issues at hand. I kinda look at stewards as people that make sure that a binding agreement is followed, similar to corporations using the courts if contracts are broken. Individual workers don't have the resources , in many cases, to take this avenue if they feel they were wronged.
I have no doubt the UAW contracts have led to our auto industry's problems. On the flip side, management agreed to the terms and are not without culpability. I said earlier that I recognize there is corruption in unions, but I think the way some portray unions as being totally corrupt is painting with too broad of a stroke. I feel the same with a union worker that says all of management are corrupt money grubbers. I know unions are in part responsible for safety, wages, benefits, etc in the workplace. I just don't see why it has to be a totally adversarial relationship between labor and management. They both depend on each other for survival.
That's about all I have time for now, but perhaps we can discuss this further in the future. I appreciate the response. Have a good one and be safe out there on the road, especially with all the winter weather.
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[MG1968]

look around the web for some articles detailing the thuggery engaged in by the SEIU. recently, they've taken to leaflet bombing the yard of a general contractor who's trying to build a WalMart in Washington DC.

crap like that crosses a line with me. I've grown to despise unions, not the individual union members, but the organizations themselves. The SEIU is no better than Westboro Baptist Church, probably even worse since WBC has never, as far as I know, used violence during a protest.

 

[JayVols]

look around the web for some articles detailing the thuggery engaged in by the SEIU. recently, they've taken to leaflet bombing the yard of a general contractor who's trying to build a WalMart in Washington DC.

crap like that crosses a line with me. I've grown to despise unions, not the individual union members, but the organizations themselves. The SEIU is no better than Westboro Baptist Church, probably even worse since WBC has never, as far as I know, used violence during a protest.

I don't like that stuff either. There are bad elements in all organizations. Perhaps I'm too idealistic, but I see some positives when labor and management negotiate in good faith for a mutually beneficial solution.

I will check out some sites on the information suggested. I may even find some stuff on management abuse for you to check out for balance. Thanks again. Later.
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[VOLatile]

I don't like that stuff either. There are bad elements in all organizations. Perhaps I'm too idealistic, but I see some positives when labor and management negotiate in good faith for a mutually beneficial solution.

I will check out some sites on the information suggested. I may even find some stuff on management abuse for you to check out for balance. Thanks again. Later.
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This is nearly impossible to come by. One side or the other ALWAYS has an agenda. I'm at a crossroads with unions. They served their original purpose.

 

[JayVols]

This is nearly impossible to come by. One side or the other ALWAYS has an agenda. I'm at a crossroads with unions. They served their original purpose.

Sure they do. But, both sides have to agree. Should work in theory. One can dream, I suppose.
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[NEO]

Yes, unions had a purpose. It was to float the mafia pre legalized gambling.

 

[JayVols]

Yes, unions had a purpose. It was to float the mafia pre legalized gambling.

They had nothing to do with the 40 hr work week, safety, child labor, medical insurance, vacation, etc.

I realize that unions have been and are involved in illigitimate affairs, but to paint them as entirely corrupt with zero redeeming qualities is just incorrect. If you want to debate that unions have served their purpose or their current role in American society, we can have that debate. Not all unions were or are headed by Hoffa types.

I am not trying to be rude, offensive, or condescending. Look at my history here. I try to be civil and respect other's views. I don't always succeed, but I make an effort. Let's just debate honestly without gross generalizations. Again, I am not picking a fight here. Just trying to 'keep it real' so to speak.
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[MG1968]

unions had nothing to do with medical insurance. Medical insurance as a benefit came about because there were once strict wage controls and generous benefit packages became one way employers attracted people to come work for them.

 

[JayVols]

unions had nothing to do with medical insurance. Medical insurance as a benefit came about because there were once strict wage controls and generous benefit packages became one way employers attracted people to come work for them.

That is true also. Unions did play a role, the size of that role is certainly open for discussion. Even if they had zero involvement in medical insurance as a benefit, they have promoted many positive aspects of employment. To be fair, they have also caused some problems. I guess I'm an idealist to a degree. The world needs dreamers as well, I think.
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[MG1968]

let's see your idealism when a union strikes over something as minor as having to pay an additional $25/month for health care and the owner of the company decides, "to hell with this" and moves his business to either a right to work state or China.

I don't want you to think I'm being harsh at you, I do realize the good things unions have done, but in the last 30 years, from the PATCO strike to the SEIU all the good work that was done has been erased by a labor movement that has grown increasingly Marxist in it's philosophy.

 

[JayVols]

let's see your idealism when a union strikes over something as minor as having to pay an additional $25/month for health care and the owner of the company decides, "to hell with this" and moves his business to either a right to work state or China.

It doesn't go that far. Some people would cut their jaw off to fix a tooth ache. That's not smart...... I guess I misstated. Call me a pragmatic idealist if their is such a creature in this universe.
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[NEO]

They had nothing to do with the 40 hr work week, safety, child labor, medical insurance, vacation, etc.

I realize that unions have been and are involved in illigitimate affairs, but to paint them as entirely corrupt with zero redeeming qualities is just incorrect. If you want to debate that unions have served their purpose or their current role in American society, we can have that debate. Not all unions were or are headed by Hoffa types.

I am not trying to be rude, offensive, or condescending. Look at my history here. I try to be civil and respect other's views. I don't always succeed, but I make an effort. Let's just debate honestly without gross generalizations. Again, I am not picking a fight here. Just trying to 'keep it real' so to speak.
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I read somewhere else that you have family working in unions. I don't take what you said as over the top. You seem pretty cool from what I've read. I am probably a million more times over the top than you are. No problem with your remark.

We do disagree though.

 

[JayVols]

I read somewhere else that you have family working in unions. I don't take what you said as over the top. You seem pretty cool from what I've read. I am probably a million more times over the top than you are. No problem with your remark.

We do disagree though.

My dad who has passed was in a union. He was not involved in leadership though. Unions have not been nor are perfect. But, they have made some positive impacts.
I can be over the top, but I feel that when a discussion becomes personally confrontational, emotion enters the equation to a greater degree and reason fades to the background.
Disagreeing is fine. Nothing wrong with that at all. I have told you this before: you have one of the best board names on VN. I hate everything that is Ohio State....
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[sjt18]

I have an honest question. I recognize that corruption exists in unions. I am not blind. I also recognize that there is corruption in the corporate world as well. My father was a hard working maintenence man that was a member of the Aluminum, Brick, and Glass Workers Union. I have seen unions keep deadbeats in their job, but I have also seen unions help workers that were unjustly terminated. Now to my question, actually questions: What is wrong with management and labor sitting down and working out a mutually beneficial contract? AND Could you please explain the animosity that is rampant on this board and in conservatism in general towards unions?
I am not trying to be confrontational. I truly would like to understand your (and the general conservative's) reasoning on this issue. Thanks in advance.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Legitimized extortion. That is what liberals have created for unions and why most Americans see their behavior as manifestly WRONG.

Most accept that unions do some good. But it goes directly against our sense of "fairness" for people with already great wages, benefits, and job protection to threaten to shut a business or state down.

Unions as they now exist are un-American in every sense.

I would have absolutely no problem with unions... would even support them... if they were subject to the same monopoly and trust laws that businesses are.

 

[sjt18]

I wouldn't even have a problem with unions if there were limits on their size or how many locations they could operate in.

The UAW is every bit as much a threat to "the people" as the big (gov't protected) auto companies that they supposedly protect workers from. Just like "big business" that the left likes to complain about, unions are TOO big, powerful, and politically tied in.