Government Abuse Of PATRIOT Act?

#9
#9
Just asking an honest question. I realize that the free market offers more real opportunity, but the heirarchy within certainly lends itself to the question.
 
#10
#10
I'm am as concerned about the loss of personal freedom as I am about another terrorist attack here.

Police in this country are too powerful. I don't know if anyone saw the documentary on Waco, but the power wielded by govt agencies like the ATF and FBI is scary.

They always take personal freedoms away but they never give any back.

Laws like imminent domain are recent to this country. They didn't exist in the 1920's & 1930's.
 
#11
#11
#12
#12
maybe I didn't read the English version of this story, but this is hardly an indictment on the entire Federal Government since 9-11.

The FBI's own internal auditing caught the problems and it doesn't sound as if there is any grand scheme to cover up anything.

It's too easy to view the FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA etc as monoliths and forget that the people working within are all subject to their own humanity.
 
#13
#13
oklavol said:
I'm am as concerned about the loss of personal freedom as I am about another terrorist attack here.

Police in this country are too powerful. I don't know if anyone saw the documentary on Waco, but the power wielded by govt agencies like the ATF and FBI is scary.

They always take personal freedoms away but they never give any back.

Laws like imminent domain are recent to this country. They didn't exist in the 1920's & 1930's.
Click to expand...
I agree with this 100%!
 
#14
#14
oklavol said:
I'm am as concerned about the loss of personal freedom as I am about another terrorist attack here.

Police in this country are too powerful. I don't know if anyone saw the documentary on Waco, but the power wielded by govt agencies like the ATF and FBI is scary.

They always take personal freedoms away but they never give any back.

Laws like imminent domain are recent to this country. They didn't exist in the 1920's & 1930's.
Click to expand...
Try a few domestic 911 calls on 30k a year. The American folks don't mind a bit you risking your life , and your families safety for 30k a year(roughly) , that and judges letting em off after you haul em in. The 1st 1 that has connections and a memory you find your wife and kids in danger...tell me again how the police are the bad guys. It amazes me how anyone is a cop and chooses it.
 
#15
#15
dan4vols said:
Try a few domestic 911 calls on 30k a year. The American folks don't mind a bit you risking your life , and your families safety for 30k a year(roughly) , that and judges letting em off after you haul em in. The 1st 1 that has connections and a memory you find your wife and kids in danger...tell me again how the police are the bad guys. It amazes me how anyone is a cop and chooses it.
Click to expand...

I agree. People need to be careful and differentiate their criticism between police and "police power".
 
#16
#16
MG1968 said:
It's too easy to view the FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA etc as monoliths and forget that the people working within are all subject to their own humanity.
Click to expand...

That's why you have courts overseeing these agents' actions. FISA Courts are a good example. But there are some who just want to give others a blank check to "do whatever is necessary in the name of national security" and trust those good patriotic Americans up in DC to not only get the bad guys but not succumb to temptation.

I seem to recall many, especially on the right, saying anyone who diagreed with the Patriot Act and giving the Executive all of those unchecked powers as traitors and aiding Osama. Strange how those who were traitors before are now correct.
 
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