Great Britain is going to gut it's military

#1

MG1968

That’s No Moon…
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
28,393
Likes
19,328
#1
RAF to shrink to World War One levels - Telegraph

In the most significant changes to Britain’s defences since the post-Suez review of 1957, ministers and officials plan to scrap large parts of the Armed Forces.

The Services will lose up to 16,000 personnel, hundreds of tanks, scores of fighter jets and half a dozen ships, under detailed proposals passed to The Daily Telegraph.

In a world that is far from a safe place, this is a bad idea.
 
#2
#2
Cameron's having to gut the government across the board. This is a move to help keep his coalition intact. Add to the fact they typically contribute forces as a group with other nations. Based on what they've contributed recently, they are dropping down to that level - enough to be relevant and productive.
 
#3
#3
they're simply joining the Europeans in saying Western Euro defense is an American proposition. Very French of them and Churchill just rolled over in his enormous casket.
 
#4
#4
Guess who will be first to bail them out now?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#5
#5
In the age of nuclear deterrents, I'm not sure this is such a bad idea. One submarine can rapidly make any conventionally won victory a pyrrhic one.

I could definitely see some scenarios where we go a route similar to this based on how the "downturn" ends up playing out.
 
#6
#6
In the age of nuclear deterrents, I'm not sure this is such a bad idea. One submarine can rapidly make any conventionally won victory a pyrrhic one.

I could definitely see some scenarios where we go a route similar to this based on how the "downturn" ends up playing out.

Don't agree. Nuclear power's overwhelming lethality is actually a very destabilizing force in the small corners of the world. It is actually stabilizing at the MAD level. The destabilization inherent in the arms races in places like Kashmir absolutely make conventional force an absolute necessity.

For diplomacy purposes, the nuclear option was great for Eisenhower's approach to the rest of the world, but it's simply no longer particularly effective because most know it's a weapon of last, or nearly last, resort. The practicality of using nukes to persuade simply no longer exists. Moving forces to the doorstep is absolutely persuasive. With the right intent, they're even better.

Europe is simply offloading the expense to the US as a strategic and financial reality. We need the staging base should the Red Horde ever come through Fulda. We will not let that eventuality come to pass. I'm of the mind that we should begin making clear that we will, given that we can use spots in the ME for the same purpose and they have more strategic advantage to us. Given that, I think you'll see over the course of the next few decades that we begin to offload defense of Europe onto Europe, as they simply aren't the center of the universe as they believe.
 
#8
#8
Don't agree. Nuclear power's overwhelming lethality is actually a very destabilizing force in the small corners of the world. It is actually stabilizing at the MAD level. The destabilization inherent in the arms races in places like Kashmir absolutely make conventional force an absolute necessity.

For diplomacy purposes, the nuclear option was great for Eisenhower's approach to the rest of the world, but it's simply no longer particularly effective because most know it's a weapon of last, or nearly last, resort. The practicality of using nukes to persuade simply no longer exists. Moving forces to the doorstep is absolutely persuasive. With the right intent, they're even better.

Europe is simply offloading the expense to the US as a strategic and financial reality. We need the staging base should the Red Horde ever come through Fulda. We will not let that eventuality come to pass. I'm of the mind that we should begin making clear that we will, given that we can use spots in the ME for the same purpose and they have more strategic advantage to us. Given that, I think you'll see over the course of the next few decades that we begin to offload defense of Europe onto Europe, as they simply aren't the center of the universe as they believe.

I'm talking about the MAD scenario. Britain seems likely to only maintain a defensive posture right now, so relying more on nuclear deterrents makes sense. The MAD scenario would also seem to call into question the possibility of war between major powers at this point in time, so I'm not sure how worried they need to be about the Red Horde.

Your points about nuclear diplomacy and the use current use of conventional forces make good sense. I only hope the current downturn remains relatively benign, and we aren't forced to make cuts.
 
#9
#9
sopwith-camel-18-03-10.jpg


Think maybe we can get them back now for burning down Washington?

Second thought, maybe we could give them enough foreign aid to burn it down again. :ermm:
 
#10
#10
I think it makes sense, relying on us to bail them out aside.

Historically, when European countries starting arming themselves the threat of war increases. From Britain's perspective, there simply isn't a threat of a foreign nation being hostile to them. They should be more worried about internal and asymmetric threats, focusing their security around the homeland. The middle and far east is where the next great hotspots are going to be that require military force, and from Britain's perspective, what do they care?
 
#12
#12
No big deal. Our military will protect them and we get to pay for it...just like we do all over the world. With their military budgets so small, they can afford to give all its citizens free college education, free healthcare, as well as other socialist/commie benefits.
 
#13
#13
No big deal. Our military will protect them and we get to pay for it...just like we do all over the world.

true enough

With their military budgets so small, they can afford to give all its citizens free college education, free healthcare,

actually, they can no longer afford free medical care for everybody and the rationing is increasing. I don't think England has free college.

as well as other socialist/commie benefits.

there are no such things
 
#14
#14
Thanks to the socialists having instituted their programs Britain is on the brink. Cameron has no choice if he wants to keep his coalition together. Clegg is very isolationist and Labour wants to do worse. Cameron can either do it on his terms or risk losing the government and having Labour/LD do even greater gutting.
 

VN Store



Back
Top