Gun control debate (merged)

#1
Grand Vol

Grand Vol

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#1
Of course let's mandate a technology that isn't viable into the gun laws. And only make it for certain guns:

Gun flight: Smith & Wesson, Ruger quit California over stamping requirement | Fox News

A new gun law proponents say helps law enforcement has driven Smith & Wesson and Sturm Ruger out of California, and affirmed the suspicions of firearms rights advocates that the measure is really about making handguns obsolete.

The two companies have announced they will stop selling their wares in the nation's most populous state rather than try to comply with a law that requires some handguns to have technology that imprints a tiny stamp on the bullet so it can be traced back to the gun. The companies, and many gun enthusiasts, say so-called "microstamping" technology is unworkable in its present form and can actually impair a gun's performance.
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If only the remainder of the industry would jump on this bandwagon, it would be nice.
 
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#2
#2
Grand Vol said:
Of course let's mandate a technology that isn't viable into the gun laws. And only make it for certain guns:

Gun flight: Smith & Wesson, Ruger quit California over stamping requirement | Fox News



If only the remainder of the industry would jump on this bandwagon, it would be nice.
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Assuming that whatever technical obstacle they are claiming actually exists, and assuming it could be overcome, what's wrong with technology that matches a bullet to a gun?

I would think that responsible gun owners would be all for it.
 
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#3
#3
lawgator1 said:
Assuming that whatever technical obstacle they are claiming actually exists, and assuming it could be overcome, what's wrong with technology that matches a bullet to a gun?

I would think that responsible gun owners would be all for it.
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I've already started a rough draft for a story where switching firing pins (not a difficult thing to do BTW) gets the wrong guy put away for murder.

If I was a bad guy I'd file down the firing pin just like I'd file off the other serial#'s, rendering the whole process moot.

So the bad guys don't care but the good guys have to carry the onus of compliance...again.
 
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#4
#4
lawgator1 said:
Assuming that whatever technical obstacle they are claiming actually exists, and assuming it could be overcome, what's wrong with technology that matches a bullet to a gun?

I would think that responsible gun owners would be all for it.
Click to expand...

Wow, a thought out question for a change?

Okay, what's to keep me from filing the pin once and removing that microstamp? Additionally, even the DOJ states the technology isn't viable yet.

The patent holder of microstamping tech, Todd Lizotte, was part of a Department of Justice study team which concluded that, “legitimate questions exist related to both the technical aspects, production costs, and database management associated with microstamping that should be addresses before wide scale implementation is legislatively mandated,” according to the study which was published in the Association of Firearm and Toolmark Examiners (AFTE) Journal
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So the questions arise, why have this? Who would be responsible for completing the database? If my gun is stolen, does the serial matter any more? What keeps me from replacing the firing pin with an after market item? And last but not least, would this technology actually help solve crime?
 
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#5
#5
lawgator1 said:
Assuming that whatever technical obstacle they are claiming actually exists, and assuming it could be overcome, what's wrong with technology that matches a bullet to a gun?

I would think that responsible gun owners would be all for it.
Click to expand...

I would think that the majority of "responsible" gun owners aren't the criminals.The "bad" guys wouldn't comply with the new law regardless.
 
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#6
#6
lawgator1 said:
Assuming that whatever technical obstacle they are claiming actually exists, and assuming it could be overcome, what's wrong with technology that matches a bullet to a gun?

I would think that responsible gun owners would be all for it.
Click to expand...

Not when it's something that is a hindrance to law abiding citizens (and possible liability suits from your ilk if, heaven forbid, someone break into the sanctuary that is my home and uses my gun to murder someone) and a non issue for a criminal, who as already stated, already files down serial numbers. It would be rather easy to file down the firing pin, once again as already stated.
 
#8
#8
MG1968 said:
why even file down the firing pin? Just police up your brass.

Unless these idiots proposing this actually think the firing pin makes contact with the bullet.
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I dunno, not easy the way some of my pistols throw brass lol

It's California politicians talking firearms. Who knows what idiocy they have swirling in their heads.
 
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#11
#11
MG1968 said:
why even file down the firing pin? Just police up your brass.

Unless these idiots proposing this actually think the firing pin makes contact with the bullet.
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The marker wouldn't be on the brass, it would be in the actual round. Only way for it to work and the reason it is unworkable.
 
#12
#12
hog88 said:
The marker wouldn't be on the brass, it would be in the actual round. Only way for it to work and the reason it is unworkable.
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am I missing something, how does a firing pin make contact with the actual round?
 
#14
#14
hog88 said:
It dosn't but as you pointed out what good would marking the brass do?
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Me? I'd be the kind of criminal that would have three guns with microstamps that weren't in the system. I'd hit it with the firing pin in all three before leaving it at the scene for the cops to head scratch over.
 
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#18
#18
MG1968 said:
why even file down the firing pin? Just police up your brass.

Unless these idiots proposing this actually think the firing pin makes contact with the bullet.
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It's more sinister than that. You require the guns to stamp the bullet casing.

Firearm microstamping, or ballistic imprinting, works by engraving a microscoping marking onto the tip of the firing pin. When the gun is fired, it leaves an imprint, usually of a serial number, on the bullet casings. The telltale mark theoretically allows law enforcement investigators to trace the bullet to the registered gun owner.
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This could be nothing more than people talking about things they don't understand regarding firearms, which is very common. (LG does it all the time) Obviously this can only possibly work (which isn't to say work well) if all firearms are registered. (presumably their first "real" goal anyway) As you say it's useless for tracking the actual "bullet" regardless.

UNLESS they start serializing bullets. To some that would only seem the natural next progression. In truth it would be an immense amount of control handed over to the government. You would have to sign off on every box of ammunition (or reloading component bullets) and logged into the system with the numbers associated with that lot of ammo. Possession of ammo not associated with you would, of course, be prohibited. Availability of ammo or component bullets would be at the government's discretion. Pretty much anybody you could convince about stamping cases you could convince to serialize bullets.

Control of ammunition is the ultimate end-run on the 2A.
 
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#19
#19
I'm surprised that some of these folks haven't decided to stop worrying about the guns and start taxing the crap out of ammo as an end run around the 2nd amendment.

A $10+ .40 or 9mm round may make many of these thugs think twice about unloading clips willy nilly. Maybe it wouldn't, I don't know.
 
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#20
#20
Septic said:
I'm surprised that some of these folks haven't decided to stop worrying about the guns and start taxing the crap out of ammo as an end run around the 2nd amendment.

A $10+ .40 or 9mm round may make many of these thugs think twice about unloading clips willy nilly. Maybe it wouldn't, I don't know.
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That's actually been proposed.
 
#21
#21
Septic said:
I'm surprised that some of these folks haven't decided to stop worrying about the guns and start taxing the crap out of ammo as an end run around the 2nd amendment.

A $10+ .40 or 9mm round may make many of these thugs think twice about unloading clips willy nilly. Maybe it wouldn't, I don't know.
Click to expand...

Why? They steal those too.
 
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#23
#23
This is more proof the libs are in the pockets of the ammo manufactories. Watch a run on ammo again.
 
#25
#25
lawgator1 said:
Assuming that whatever technical obstacle they are claiming actually exists, and assuming it could be overcome, what's wrong with technology that matches a bullet to a gun?

I would think that responsible gun owners would be all for it.
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Responsible gun owners don't use their guns to commit crimes. Do you actually think the criminals would not find a way to beat this technology?
 
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