Has Iran declared war?

[OrangeEmpire]

Has Iran declared war?

Iran captured fifteen British Royal Navy personnel during a "routine boarding operation" in Iraqi waters on Friday, Britain's Ministry of Defense said.
Iran's ambassador in London has been summoned and Britain is demanding the immediate safe release of the sailors.

"At approximately 1030 Iraqi time this morning, 15 British naval personnel, engaged in routine boarding operations of merchant shipping in Iraqi territorial waters ... were seized by Iranian naval vessels," the ministry said in a statement.

"We are urgently pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level and on the instructions of the Foreign Secretary, the Iranian ambassador has been summoned to the Foreign Office. The British government is demanding the immediate and safe return of our people and equipment."

If this is ‘only’ locals ‘getting out of hand’ then it will be over in a day or two…

But if they were acting on ‘orders’…


You should know that the French nuclear carrier Charles de Gaulle and its task force had rendezvoused with the USS John C. Stennis and it’s task force in the Arabian Sea Wednesday for joint missions in the global war on terror. Its arrival raises to four the number of Western aircraft carriers cruising within striking distance of Iran, including the USS Eisenhower and USS Boxer. The Boxer led group is a Expeditionary Strike Group with the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit on board… The 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operation Capable), or MEU(SOC), is designed to be the first on-scene in the event of crisis. It takes more than 2,100 men and women to form the 26th MEU (SOC) team.

The Charles de Gaulle is accompanied by French Task Force 473, which consists of five warships: the FNS Cassard guided missile destroyer, the FNS Tourville anti-submarine frigate, the FNS Dupleix destroyer adapted for escorting oil tankers and the FNS Marne, a command and supply vessel. Commander of the French task force is Rear Adm. Xavier Magne. Commander of the American flotilla is Rear Adm. Kevin Quinn.

Amid rising tensions in the strategic Gulf waters, military sources are saying that the American-French rendezvous was timed to coincide with the UN Security Council session Wednesday to debate expanded sanctions against Iran for continuing its banned uranium enrichment program.

Has Iran decided, with Britain leaving Iraq and the U.S. Congress intent on killing the war effort, that the West has gone weak? Have the Democrats' machinations on Capitol Hill emboldened the Iranians? Or is this more of a defensive move with all that hardware sitting out there off their coast, and the UN nipping at them?

My guess is for the weakness more then anything else. We’ve had bigger groups of ships there before. The Iranians must think with the Democrats demanding there be no war with Iran and the President forced repeatedly to say there are no plans, the Iranians have taken the hint and geared up, knowing the Democrats will not tolerate an American response.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Have the Democrats' machinations on Capitol Hill emboldened the Iranians?

They are trying. Just heard the D talking point regarding the spending resolution: We are trying to stop the war because that is what the voters told us to do in November. So the D mandate is to surrender as quickly as possible regardless of the consequences. I don't recall anyone running on that.

 

[therealUT]

I sure wish the Brits in the Zodiacs would have resisted and forced the Iranians to open fire...

 

[OWB]

Iran has a Navy?

 

[TennTradition]

This whole thing scares me...I hope that Iran can settle this internally quickly and cool this thing off.

 

[MG1968]

Iran has a Navy?

yep, they sure do. Iran Navy

 

[therealUT]

Iran is now going to try these men for espionage, a crime punishable by death. I will concede, that Iran used the same ploy in 2004, however, the posturing of Iran can easily be seen as an act of war.

 

[dan4vols]

The wildcard here is Israel. When in the opinion of the Israeli's Iran is too dangerous even to the US, I believe they will nuke Iran.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

The wildcard here is Israel. When in the opinion of the Israeli's Iran is too dangerous even to the US, I believe they will nuke Iran.

That would give Russia a good excuse to start selling nukes throughout the middle east. Get everyone on the mutual assured destruction track.

 

[vol_in_ar]

They haven't declared War, anymore so tham Italy did when they tried US CIA agents..

Iran is going to us the British sailors and Marines, as a politocal bargining chip.

 

[therealUT]

They haven't declared War, anymore so tham Italy did when they tried US CIA agents..

Iran is going to us the British sailors and Marines, as a politocal bargining chip.

Whether they have declared war or not, using your own government agents to capture, detain, and try government agents of another country, who were captured in international waters, is an act of war.

I agree that this is a political bargaining chip. War is also an extension of politics. So, these are not mutually exclusive.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

From what I've read these were disputed waters. Is there a different protocol for the presence of military personnel in disputed areas as opposed to international areas?

 

[therealUT]

The only persons who claim they are disputed are Iranian officials. The Brits, the EU, and the US are firm that the waters are Iraqi (which would make this move an even stronger act of war.)

Also, I do not buy into the confessions that the Iranians say they have taken from the Brits.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

I wonder if an invasion of Iran would actually result in a de-escallation of violence in Iraq? I guess we'd figure out to what extent foreign agitation is fueling the Shite-Sunni clash.

 

[therealUT]

I would say the sectarian violence is largely fueled by foreign influence (our own included.) I would love to see the British take the fight to Iran and let us sit back and spectate.

 

[vol_in_ar]

I would say the sectarian violence is largely fueled by foreign influence (our own included.) I would love to see the British take the fight to Iran and let us sit back and spectate.

There's no way we would stay on the sidelines, that's the problem

 

[therealUT]

There's no way we would stay on the sidelines, that's the problem

You honestly believe that the current Congress would declare war on Iran?

 

[Fine Vol]

Real, are we spread to thin to fight Iran?

 

[therealUT]

Real, are we spread to thin to fight Iran?

Not at all.

We are spread too thin to continue this absurd 1 year rotation crap though (thanks Truman Administration for starting that precedent.)

 

[vol_in_ar]

Not at all.

We are spread too thin to continue this absurd 1 year rotation crap though (thanks Truman Administration for starting that precedent.)

Your out of touch, the constant deployment, to Iraq, and Afghanistan, are taking a toll on not only active duty forces, but our reserve component as well.

 

[therealUT]

Your[sic] out of touch, the constant deployment, to Iraq, and Afghanistan, are taking a toll on not only active duty forces, but our reserve component as well.

I am definitely not out of touch with anything involving the current military situation in America.

The facts are these:
14 month deployments (6 months for the USMC) provide little opportunity to the soldiers to learn in their operating environment. Many soldiers come to Iraq with notions of how to run the show from what they have learned in the "school house." After about 8 months, they have learned enough of their environment to display actionable situational awareness. They know the people, they can easily see when something is out of place, etc. By about month 12, they are preparing to redeploy. PLs and COs are not conductin near as many presence patrols (they don't want to lose anyone so close to redeployment, unless the prize is large). So, we are right now working with about 4 good months per unit per 14 month period in Iraq. That seems pretty inefficient to me.

Also, take the 1/187 IN BN (101st):
They returned from the Mosul/Najaf AO in September. They are deploying to Baghdad in June (Sadr City.) If you actually believe that what works in Mosul and Najaf works the exact same way in Sadr City, you are living in a dream world. The culture is different, the people are different, things that looked out of place in Mosul and Najaf, will not look out of place in Sadr City. The Sheikhs in Mosul are going to conduct business and politics in a different manner than the Sheikhs in Baghdad. So, the 1/187 will again have a learning curve that will probably take anywhere between 6 and 8 months.

But, I am apparently out of touch.

 

[vol_in_ar]

You are if you think we have the force stucture to support the Invasion of Iran.
Forget the hi-profile, Infantry, Armor, Field Artillery assets it would take. With over 50% of the Combat Support, and Combat Service Support functions in the guard, and reserves, their aren't enough mechanics, cooks and medics to support 3 area of operations.

 

[therealUT]

You are if you think we have the force stucture to support the Invasion of Iran.
Forget the hi-profile, Infantry, Armor, Field Artillery assets it would take. With over 50% of the Combat Support, and Combat Service Support functions in the guard, and reserves, their aren't enough mechanics, cooks and medics to support 3 area of operations.

Wrong.

While we would be limited in CA Ops, every active component has more than enough people serving logistics functions to facilitate their own deployments. NG combat arms units most definitely rely on reserve forces for their supply trains. Active Component BCTs do not.

 

[vol_in_ar]

Wrong.

While we would be limited in CA Ops, every active component has more than enough people serving logistics functions to facilitate their own deployments. NG combat arms units most definitely rely on reserve forces for their supply trains. Active Component BCTs do not.

This statement furthers my belief, that your out of touch.

Once we started drawing down forces in the early '90's most of CS, and CSS assets were moved to the guard and reserves.

Here's some facts for you:

Army Reserve soldiers constituted the following numbers in US Army units:

100% of training divisions, brigades, and railway units
97% of civil affairs units
89% of psychological operations units
85% of smoke generator companies
78% of Petrol/Oil/Lubricant (POL) supply companies
62% of Army hospitals
61% of terminal companies
59% of the supply and service capability of the Army
51% of ammunition companies
43% of airborne pathfinder units
43% of watercraft companies
42% of chemical decontamination units
38% of combat support aviation companies
26% of combat engineer battalions
25% of Special Forces Groups


This doesn't include National Guard Assets

 

[therealUT]

I gave you CA, did I not. Also, I could care less about the PsyOps soldiers. Also, the hospitals part is of no effect in the argument.

My BCT is completely modular and self supported, as are all other BCTs in the current Modular Division Structure (soon to be UA Structure.) Just because more soldiers fill these units throughout the reserves and NG in the US in no way means that the Active Component relies on them.