Has there ever been a coach that became GREAT after being terrible his first 3 years?

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

To me this is why you gotta cut Pruitt lose right now. The likelihood he turns it around is unlikely. Most great coaches show that they're great by Year 3 or sooner. If there was a long history in recent years of coaches being terrible for 3 years then suddenly turning into powerhouses then there might be reason to hold out hope. But there isn't. So Tennessee would be stupid to hang on to Pruitt hoping he's the outlier rather than the rule.

 

[Arclight]

ZZzzz

 

[GoBigOrangeVols]

Frank Beamer was a combined 11-21-1 his first 3 seasons at Virginia Tech.

Johnny Majors was a combined 11-20 his first 3 seasons as a head coach (at Iowa State). He was also a combined 16-17-1 his first three seasons on the Hill (and he went 5-6 in his 4th year).

 

[sjt18]

Rarely.

I think Beamer was an exception. Maybe Bobby Bowden. Saban was lackluster in his first few years... but his success didn't come at that school.

There are two components. One, a coach has to inherit a good roster. Two, they have to be a great coach and catch some breaks. If #1 is lacking but a guy wins when he shouldn't or is unexpectedly competitive with less talent then maybe that buys some time. Neither has been the case with Pruitt or Jones.

 

[sjt18]

You also have to understand how football changed over the years. Sports media since the late 80's plus the focus on recruiting has made it almost impossible to get the talent needed to win big without early success to sell to recruits.

 

[The Ron Mexico]

To me this is why you gotta cut Pruitt lose right now. The likelihood he turns it around is unlikely. Most great coaches show that they're great by Year 3 or sooner. If there was a long history in recent years of coaches being terrible for 3 years then suddenly turning into powerhouses then there might be reason to hold out hope. But there isn't. So Tennessee would be stupid to hang on to Pruitt hoping he's the outlier rather than the rule.

You promised us a national championship in 2020.

 

[mitzustu]

Frank Beamer was a combined 11-21-1 his first 3 seasons at Virginia Tech.

Johnny Majors was a combined 11-20 his first 3 seasons as a head coach (at Iowa State). He was also a combined 16-17-1 his first three seasons on the Hill (and he went 5-6 in his 4th year).

That’s pretty interesting.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Plenty of instances in basketball.

 

[1967vol]

All of these threads about firing Pruitt are useless. Just grin and accept it. You really have no choice because he isn't going anywhere regardless of the results this year. He will get another two years to show significant progress.

 

[Lobo71]

That’s pretty interesting.

 

[Lobo71]

Frank Beamer was a combined 11-21-1 his first 3 seasons at Virginia Tech.

Johnny Majors was a combined 11-20 his first 3 seasons as a head coach (at Iowa State). He was also a combined 16-17-1 his first three seasons on the Hill (and he went 5-6 in his 4th year).

Johnny Majors was not a GREAT coach.

 

[05_never_again]

There are a few examples of what you're talking about, but I don't really think they are analogous to Tennessee for various reasons.

Coach O went 10-25 at Ole Miss, then not counting his interim stint at USC resurfaces 9 years later at LSU and wins a title in year 4. Not sure that's analogous because of the big time gap between different HC jobs.

Saban's first HC job was a one-year stint at Toledo in 1990 where he went 9-2. 5 years later he showed up at Michigan St and went 19-16-1 his first 3 years. Similar to O there were big time gaps between HC stints at multiple schools. However, after year 3 at Michigan St or when he took the LSU job, there was absolutely nothing that indicated he was going to be a great coach. In fact I remember a lot of head-scratching with LSU hired him.

Mark Dantonio had 3 pretty mediocre Cincinnati teams, then went 22-17 his first 3 years at Michigan St. Not great, but not terrible either, and like O and Saban he switched jobs.

Johnny Majors was mediocre at Iowa St, and was actually mediocre at Pitt until his final year. At Tennessee, we were exceedingly patient with him, as it took almost 10 years to get the program running, and I don't consider him to be a truly great coach anyway.

Kirk Ferentz was terrible early in his career at Maine (12-21), then didn't get another HC job until Iowa came calling 7 years later. His first 3 years at Iowa he was 11-24; however, at least he got better each year and went 11-2 in year 4. This team is going backwards under Pruitt in year 3. Also, similar to O/Saban/Dantonio, there were time gaps and switched jobs.

Frank Beamer was nothing special his first 3 years at Virginia Tech (disregarding his previous job at I-AA Murray St), and he also struggled mightily his first 2 years after Tech entered the Big East, but he was also building a program from nothing. Not really an analogous situation.

I'm sure someone will point out Dabo, but none of Dabo's teams have been downright terrible like Pruitt's have been. And the team he coached during his 3rd full season won an ACC title, so not analogous.

 

[GoodmanVol]

Nick Saban.

From 1995 to 1997, Michigan State finished 6–5–1, 6–6, and 7–5.

 

[VolArmy74]

There are a few examples of what you're talking about, but I don't really think they are analogous to Tennessee for various reasons.

Coach O went 10-25 at Ole Miss, then not counting his interim stint at USC resurfaces 9 years later at LSU and wins a title in year 4. Not sure that's analogous because of the big time gap between different HC jobs.

Saban's first HC job was a one-year stint at Toledo in 1990 where he went 9-2. 5 years later he showed up at Michigan St and went 19-16-1 his first 3 years. Similar to O there were big time gaps between HC stints at multiple schools. However, after year 3 at Michigan St or when he took the LSU job, there was absolutely nothing that indicated he was going to be a great coach. In fact I remember a lot of head-scratching with LSU hired him.

Mark Dantonio had 3 pretty mediocre Cincinnati teams, then went 22-17 his first 3 years at Michigan St. Not great, but not terrible either, and like O and Saban he switched jobs.

Johnny Majors was mediocre at Iowa St, and was actually mediocre at Pitt until his final year. At Tennessee, we were exceedingly patient with him, as it took almost 10 years to get the program running, and I don't consider him to be a truly great coach anyway.

Kirk Ferentz was terrible early in his career at Maine (12-21), then didn't get another HC job until Iowa came calling 7 years later. His first 3 years at Iowa he was 11-24; however, at least he got better each year and went 11-2 in year 4. This team is going backwards under Pruitt in year 3. Also, similar to O/Saban/Dantonio, there were time gaps and switched jobs.

Frank Beamer was nothing special his first 3 years at Virginia Tech (disregarding his previous job at I-AA Murray St), and he also struggled mightily his first 2 years after Tech entered the Big East, but he was also building a program from nothing. Not really an analogous situation.

I'm sure someone will point out Dabo, but none of Dabo's teams have been downright terrible like Pruitt's have been. And the team he coached during his 3rd full season won an ACC title, so not analogous.

When LSU hired Saban Michigan State was a top 10 team in the nation. He took them from major probation to their best season in 30+ years. There was every indication he was going to be a very good coach. No one could have predicted he'd become the best coach in CFB history though.

 

[VolArmy74]

95 percent of coaches who are failing at that level in year 3 are never more than mediocre at best if they get to continue anywhere as a head coach. Most will be back in the coordinator or position coaching ranks. I put a list up the other day. Bill McCartney was 1-11 in year three and went on to win a national title in 1990. He was the only coach who has won a national title since 1980 that had a losing record in year three as the head coach of the program where he won a title.

 

[05_never_again]

When LSU hired Saban Michigan State was a top 10 team in the nation. He took them from major probation to their best season in 30+ years. There was every indication he was going to be a very good coach. No one could have predicted he'd become the best coach in CFB history though.

There was nothing that indicated he was going to win a national title, especially at a place like LSU, which had been down for a considerable period of time when he took the job. His last season at Michigan St was nice, but it was also just one season.

 

[DiderotsGhost]

 

[05_never_again]

View attachment 325626

At least he had them trending in a positive direction. Pruitt does not in year 3.

...and let's be honest. At Tennessee he'd have been on a screaming hot seat entering the 1993 season, gotten off of it, then would have been right back on it if not fired after the 1995 season. If not the 1995 season, either the 1996 or 1997 season we'd fire him because of an inability "to get over the hump."

 

[Vols1891]

Frank Beamer was a combined 11-21-1 his first 3 seasons at Virginia Tech.

Johnny Majors was a combined 11-20 his first 3 seasons as a head coach (at Iowa State). He was also a combined 16-17-1 his first three seasons on the Hill (and he went 5-6 in his 4th year).

Okay, now post all the coaches that were bad their first 3 years and continued to be bad afterwards.

 

[Savannahbayvol]

There are a few examples of what you're talking about, but I don't really think they are analogous to Tennessee for various reasons.

Coach O went 10-25 at Ole Miss, then not counting his interim stint at USC resurfaces 9 years later at LSU and wins a title in year 4. Not sure that's analogous because of the big time gap between different HC jobs.

Saban's first HC job was a one-year stint at Toledo in 1990 where he went 9-2. 5 years later he showed up at Michigan St and went 19-16-1 his first 3 years. Similar to O there were big time gaps between HC stints at multiple schools. However, after year 3 at Michigan St or when he took the LSU job, there was absolutely nothing that indicated he was going to be a great coach. In fact I remember a lot of head-scratching with LSU hired him.

Mark Dantonio had 3 pretty mediocre Cincinnati teams, then went 22-17 his first 3 years at Michigan St. Not great, but not terrible either, and like O and Saban he switched jobs.

Johnny Majors was mediocre at Iowa St, and was actually mediocre at Pitt until his final year. At Tennessee, we were exceedingly patient with him, as it took almost 10 years to get the program running, and I don't consider him to be a truly great coach anyway.

Kirk Ferentz was terrible early in his career at Maine (12-21), then didn't get another HC job until Iowa came calling 7 years later. His first 3 years at Iowa he was 11-24; however, at least he got better each year and went 11-2 in year 4. This team is going backwards under Pruitt in year 3. Also, similar to O/Saban/Dantonio, there were time gaps and switched jobs.

Frank Beamer was nothing special his first 3 years at Virginia Tech (disregarding his previous job at I-AA Murray St), and he also struggled mightily his first 2 years after Tech entered the Big East, but he was also building a program from nothing. Not really an analogous situation.

I'm sure someone will point out Dabo, but none of Dabo's teams have been downright terrible like Pruitt's have been. And the team he coached during his 3rd full season won an ACC title, so not analogous.

If Saban had not upset tOSU in his 4th season he would have probably been fired.

Saban arrived in East Lansing, Michigan prior to the 1995 season. Michigan State had not had a winning season since 1990, and the team was sanctioned by the NCAA for recruiting violations that were committed under his predecessor and former mentor, George Perles.[24]
Beginning in 1995, Saban moderately improved Michigan State's fortunes, taking the Spartans to bowl games in each of his first three seasons. From 1995 to 1997, Michigan State finished 6–5–1, 6–6, and 7–5. In comparison, MSU had finished 5–6, 6–6, and 5–6 (prior to NCAA forfeits) in 1992–1994.

 

[butchna]

Frank Beamer was a combined 11-21-1 his first 3 seasons at Virginia Tech.

Johnny Majors was a combined 11-20 his first 3 seasons as a head coach (at Iowa State). He was also a combined 16-17-1 his first three seasons on the Hill (and he went 5-6 in his 4th year).

OP started watching the Vols in 2000.

 

[McDad]

I think I get the intention of this thread. Indict CJP. By year 3 we not only feel he isn't going to cut it, but we also can look at the historical odds against him after 3 years by comparing to the minority who were able to get it figured out.

But also consider this, there are many "successful" coaches who move on to a bigger stage (or their alma mater) and wash out. And the number of coaches who do it is disconcerting. Unless UT is going to hire 1 of 3 (maybe 4) college football coaches in the world, even bringing in a proven winner isn't a "sure thing".

This moment of encouragement is sponsored by Jack Daniels.

 

[FLVOL_79]

lol..this f$$$ing guy..

 

[landscapingvol]

Frank Beamer was a combined 11-21-1 his first 3 seasons at Virginia Tech.

Johnny Majors was a combined 11-20 his first 3 seasons as a head coach (at Iowa State). He was also a combined 16-17-1 his first three seasons on the Hill (and he went 5-6 in his 4th year).

He had also proven at Pitt that he could win as a head coach. Pruitt has proven next to nothing as a head coach

 

[butchna]

He had also proven at Pitt that he could win as a head coach. Pruitt has proven next to nothing as a head coach

Pitt was after he lost for 4 seasons at Iowa State. By the OP’s rationale, he never gets the chance to coach Tony Dorsett. Not disagreeing with your main point, but sticking to the parameters of this thread.