Help me understand

[rickyb712]

what is the deal with burning redshirts. do we not recruit qb's. help me understand seriously.

 

[Boca Vol]

I don't necessarily get it, either, but I'm not on the sideline.

Fulmer didn't mind using FR at qb's. Other coaches do.

 

[KBVol]

what is the deal with burning redshirts. do we not recruit qb's. help me understand seriously.

1. You burn redshirts if you need the services of the freshman in question. It was gonna be either true freshman Dobbs or true freshman Ferguson on Saturday when Worley could either not perform adequately or not play at all, since redshirt freshman was not available.

Once a freshman plays at all, his redshirt is burned, unless he sustains a "season-ending" injury and has played less than 30% of the full season iirc.

2. Butch has 4 QBs on the roster this year after signing both Ferguson and Dobbs in the 2013 class, so yes Butch does recruit QBs. He went after a couple of the top QBs this year to add in the 2014 class, but those guys committed elsewhere, Barker to Ky, Cornwell to Alabama.

I have also read that he is still looking to potentially still sign a QB this cycle but it doesn't appear likely given our current class and the #s remaining.

Hope that helps a little bit.

 

[FLVOL_79]

:blink:Butch doesnt need a QB for his scheme..duh.

 

[sjsmith87]

Good post, KBVol. In addition, I'm sure most coaches would prefer to redshirt their freshman QBs, to get them comfortable in the system through a year of studying and weight training.

 

[volroadwarrior]

1. You burn redshirts if you need the services of the freshman in question. It was gonna be either true freshman Dobbs or true freshman Ferguson on Saturday when Worley could either not perform adequately or not play at all, since redshirt freshman was not available.

Once a freshman plays at all, his redshirt is burned, unless he sustains a "season-ending" injury and has played less than 30% of the full season iirc.

2. Butch has 4 QBs on the roster this year after signing both Ferguson and Dobbs in the 2013 class, so yes Butch does recruit QBs. He went after a couple of the top QBs this year to add in the 2014 class, but those guys committed elsewhere, Barker to Ky, Cornwell to Alabama.

I have also read that he is still looking to potentially still sign a QB this cycle but it doesn't appear likely given our current class and the #s remaining.

Hope that helps a little bit.

You are correct, but we have more glaring needs than QB. He is having to do a major upgrade on defense at all positions including DL and LB where graduation will take its toll. The entire starting OL will have to be replaced and we are woefully thin on TE talent. With Paulk and Hurd injuries, RB is still a priority.

Next year a lot of elite QBs will look at the WR talent we have and will give us a good look. We see Dobb's potential and if Fergie was ahead of Dobbs before the injury that would indicate he will do well also.

 

[FRO]

in case of emergency, break glass.......pull lever.

 

[SaintLouisVol]

I don't fully get the question you are asking, but I think you are asking WHY there would be concerns about playing a true freshman at QB rather than allowing them to redshirt.


A few reasons:

1. The system. The level offensive complexity rises a LOT from HS to college. In HS, almost always, the QB simply equates to the most athletically gifted player on the team. The offense is simple. So it takes time to get them ready within the scheme. Most OCs don't want to be limited in what they call only because of the QB.

2. Physical maturity. A full year plus summer in the "program" adds weight and strength which can equate to durability.

3. Emotional maturity. A year of just drinking it in can go a long ways to settle them down once they actually get on the field.


I was a big supporter of keeping both of them off the field. Especially after they made it as far as they did. But now that Dobbs has used the year no matter what, I think they ought to play him. Obviously, he's the kind of player CBJ likes in that position.

 

[GoobieVol]

I don't fully get the question you are asking, but I think you are asking WHY there would be concerns about playing a true freshman at QB rather than allowing them to redshirt.


A few reasons:

1. The system. The level offensive complexity rises a LOT from HS to college. In HS, almost always, the QB simply equates to the most athletically gifted player on the team. The offense is simple. So it takes time to get them ready within the scheme. Most OCs don't want to be limited in what they call only because of the QB.

2. Physical maturity. A full year plus summer in the "program" adds weight and strength which can equate to durability.
3. Emotional maturity. A year of just drinking it in can go a long ways to settle them down once they actually get on the field.


I was a big supporter of keeping both of them off the field. Especially after they made it as far as they did. But now that Dobbs has used the year no matter what, I think they ought to play him. Obviously, he's the kind of player CBJ likes in that position.

#2 would have been huge for Dobb. IMO

I loved seeing a qb actually read the defense, and keep it around the edge. But Dobbs took a couple of pretty good shots in the limited time he saw Sat.

Coach Serrono needs to teach him how to slide feet first.

 

[WillisVol]

I stated in a previous thread that I will support whoever CBJ puts in and I will stand by that. The only thing that I will say and agree with is the fact that since Dobbs' redshirt has been burned, I think it would be a huge mistake if he didn't play even if Worley is healthy.

Maybe CBJ will use both Worley and Dobbs throughout the game. I just don't think we would waste a redshirt on Dobbs to only play 2 quarters.

Even if Worley is still the guy, maybe they could put Dobbs in the game in certain situations like Chris Leak and Tim Tebow, or Connor Shaw and Dylan Thompson.

CBJ knows and I'm going to back his decision no matter what, I would just hate to see a year wasted for Dobbs by just playing 2 quarters.

 

[Volhoops]

The system rule should not apply to a new coaching staff running a first year new system. All QB should be learning at about the same rate. So in this instance a FR as a starter when they are better than the JR should not be a concern. Play the best player. Red shirting two FR QB does not make any sense for our team.

 

[joelkthx]

There is someone who gets paid $3 million dollars per year to make some decisions regarding QBs and redshirts. Its not me. Its not you. My suggestion would be to let it go, and just move on and go fix some plumbing or sell some insurance or whatever you do for a living. There's no sense in giving yourself heart disease over something you have no control over.

 

[Fullfillmer]

what is the deal with burning redshirts. do we not recruit qb's. help me understand seriously.

It is obviously a sound strategy - if you have the luxury to do it. Look no further than the 5 or 6 5th year seniors running around last Saturday leading Alabama. If you don't need them immediately and you have depth - you can redshirt and build a stronger, deeper team down the road.

 

[GLDunlap]

It is always best to RS freshman QB's if possible. Manziel, Murray, McCarron and Mettenberger are the top QB's in the SEC this year and all were redshirted their Freshman year. That said had they been playing behind Worley I doubt they redshirt. I have to believe that CBJ expected Worley and Peterman to be more productive then they have been.

*Mettenberger may have not been a true RS but he didn't play anywhere his Freshman year.

 

[stephenk24]

1. You burn redshirts if you need the services of the freshman in question. It was gonna be either true freshman Dobbs or true freshman Ferguson on Saturday when Worley could either not perform adequately or not play at all, since redshirt freshman was not available.

Once a freshman plays at all, his redshirt is burned, unless he sustains a "season-ending" injury and has played less than 30% of the full season iirc.

2. Butch has 4 QBs on the roster this year after signing both Ferguson and Dobbs in the 2013 class, so yes Butch does recruit QBs. He went after a couple of the top QBs this year to add in the 2014 class, but those guys committed elsewhere, Barker to Ky, Cornwell to Alabama.

I have also read that he is still looking to potentially still sign a QB this cycle but it doesn't appear likely given our current class and the #s remaining.

Hope that helps a little bit.

Thanks so much. I had no idea about most of this. :good!:

 

[JoeltonVol]

There is someone who gets paid $3 million dollars per year to make some decisions regarding QBs and redshirts. Its not me. Its not you. My suggestion would be to let it go, and just move on and go fix some plumbing or sell some insurance or whatever you do for a living. There's no sense in giving yourself heart disease over something you have no control over.

This is the quote of the year-I completely agree. I played football in high school, and have watched college/pro football very intently for 25+ years. I know a lot about football, UT football, and college football. I am an alum, and was a student when they won the NC in '98. I blew alot of money going to Oregon to watch them lose by 40+. I want them to win just about as much as anyone who is out there. But the absolute bottom line is-the coaches know and care more than I do...they know what's best for this team-not me. I do trust Butch...once he gets better players, it's on!!!

 

[SaintLouisVol]

The system rule should not apply to a new coaching staff running a first year new system. All QB should be learning at about the same rate. So in this instance a FR as a starter when they are better than the JR should not be a concern. Play the best player. Red shirting two FR QB does not make any sense for our team.

Except The upper classmen had the benefit of spring practice. Dobbs did not enroll early.

Doesn't matter now. They did what they thought they had to do. I just hope the play him now. The only thing that would stink, IMO, is for him to lose a whole year for a half at 'Bama and a little mop up here and there.

 

[YorkVol]

To clarify, you get 5 years to play 4 seasons. Historically QBs and Linemen take the longest to develop into top level players. For QBs it is primarily the mental aspects, although most also need to add some adult muscle as well. The biggest issue is confidence--if their confidence gets broken early, the recovery can be tough, and for some, may be impossible. If you can give them a redshirt year to learn the playbook and begin to develop leadership skills and if they can be the #2 guy for a year, then by the time they are #1, they should be ready to shoulder the load.

Note: We probably don't have that luxury at this point.

 

[knoxvols11]

Redshirting is/can be a good thing. Look at Travis Stephens for the 01 season.

This entire thread would have been null and void had either Kiffin or Dooley kept the Wallace kid instate.

 

[ALLVOL 4LIFE]

Redshirting is/can be a good thing. Look at Travis Stephens for the 01 season.

This entire thread would have been null and void had either Kiffin or Dooley kept the Wallace kid instate.

He is from my hometown, thats one reason I wanted him to be a Vol, secondly and most important, why would a coach fail to recruit or at least put a little effort to see how good a QB at an instate, 4A school that is unbeaten. On top of that, he was 4A Mr. Football and led them to a State Championship. Way to go Kiffy Dooligan!

 

[perico]

He is from my hometown, thats one reason I wanted him to be a Vol, secondly and most important, why would a coach fail to recruit or at least put a little effort to see how good a QB at an instate, 4A school that is unbeaten. On top of that, he was 4A Mr. Football and led them to a State Championship. Way to go Kiffy Dooligan!

A- Bo Wallace couldn't qualify out of high school. Took a year at Arky State then went JuCo for a reason.

B- He wasn't anywhere near the top of the QB board at the time anyways.

C- He's been pretty good, but wasn't near Bray's level. Both were headcases and Wallace's dad probably alienated a lot of people in the UT brass (speculating).

 

[ALLVOL 4LIFE]

A- Bo Wallace couldn't qualify out of high school. Took a year at Arky State then went JuCo for a reason.

B- He wasn't anywhere near the top of the QB board at the time anyways.

C- He's been pretty good, but wasn't near Bray's level. Both were headcases and Wallace's dad probably alienated a lot of people in the UT brass (speculating).

I wasn't by no means saying he could have come right in and played and been our savior. I know his grades was an issue. The reason he went JuCo was to play after Freese left Arky St. and remember, he only went 1 year...would have been nice to at least being an option. Finally, they only came and seen him very late, no doubt by that time, Dools still could have went after him as a JuCo. Either way it's a moot point...he would have fit nicely into CBJ's system though.

 

[1972 Grad]

There is someone who gets paid $3 million dollars per year to make some decisions regarding QBs and redshirts. Its not me. Its not you. My suggestion would be to let it go, and just move on and go fix some plumbing or sell some insurance or whatever you do for a living. There's no sense in giving yourself heart disease over something you have no control over.

Sound advice! You must give advice for a living. You're good at it.