Holly replacement?

#3
#3
Hope you're right but I have my doubts. Fulmer isn't going to make a move until some of the old guard gives him the go ahead. He doesn't want any part of the title 9 stuff and I don't blame him. The old guard loves Holly, they're just as stupid and arrogant as she is.
 
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#5
#5
Volsfaninva917 said:
Hope you're right but I have my doubts. Fulmer isn't going to make a move until some of the old guard gives him the go ahead. He doesn't want any part of the title 9 stuff and I don't blame him. The old guard loves Holly, they're just as stupid and arrogant as she is.
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100%
 
#6
#6
Volsfaninva917 said:
Hope you're right but I have my doubts. Fulmer isn't going to make a move until some of the old guard gives him the go ahead. He doesn't want any part of the title 9 stuff and I don't blame him. The old guard loves Holly, they're just as stupid and arrogant as she is.
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What does title IX have to do with the coaching situation? It addresses access and funding for programs:

Title IX


"The U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights (OCR) enforces, among other statutes, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972. Title IX protects people from discrimination based on sex in education programs or activities that receive Federal financial assistance. Title IX states that:
No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

IF Fulmer decided to cut the Lady vols basketball program, that would be a title IX issue but replacing Holly is not one. And hold on to your knickers, even if Fulmer replaced Holly with a man, it would still not a title IX concern (have you by chance noticed all the men coaches on the sidelines for women's b-ball teams?)
 
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#9
#9
madtownvol said:
What does title IX have to do with the coaching situation? It addresses access and funding for programs:

Title IX


"The U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights (OCR) enforces, among other statutes, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972. Title IX protects people from discrimination based on sex in education programs or activities that receive Federal financial assistance. Title IX states that:
No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

IF Fulmer decided to cut the Lady vols basketball program, that would be a title IX issue but replacing Holly is not one. And hold on to your knickers, even if Fulmer replaced Holly with a man, it would still not a title IX concern (have you by chance noticed all the men coaches on the sidelines for women's b-ball teams?)
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Fulmer fires Holly, Debby Jennings gets pissed off. Holly teams up with Debby, Holly files a lawsuit for sexual discrimination against Fulmer. Fulmer wants not part of this, period.

Don't believe it can happen? See Debby Jennings vs. UT lawsuit
 
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#12
#12
Volsfaninva917 said:
Fulmer fires Holly, Debby Jennings gets pissed off. Holly teams up with Debby, Holly files a lawsuit for sexual discrimination against Fulmer. Fulmer wants not part of this, period.

Don't believe it can happen? See Debby Jennings vs. UT lawsuit
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Firing a coach for poor performance is a lot different than the legitimate claims of discrimination that Jennings has against Dave Hart and the University.


For the simple-minded, here’s the difference between Holly and Jennings/Moshak:

When you go .500 in SEC play and have a contract, then the school terminates that contract for poor performance, pays you a buyout, and hires whoever they want. That’s not discrimination, that’s coaching.

When you combine two media relations or athletic training departments and tell the head of one of them that they won’t be considered for the position of head of the combined department because they won’t have a woman in that position, that’s the definition of discrimination. When you then fire that person for pointing that out, then you have a lawsuit.

I have no idea if former wants to make a move, he certainly has not decided yet. But if she goes 500 in the conference, we’re going to find out how committed the school is to women’s basketball. And worries about legal action won’t enter the realm of discussion.
 
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#13
#13
Volsfaninva917 said:
Hope you're right but I have my doubts. Fulmer isn't going to make a move until some of the old guard gives him the go ahead. He doesn't want any part of the title 9 stuff and I don't blame him. The old guard loves Holly, they're just as stupid and arrogant as she is.
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Keeping Holly is violating more civil rights than anyone named in that case ever could.
 
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#14
#14
DeerPark12 said:
Firing a coach for poor performance is a lot different than the legitimate claims of discrimination that Jennings has against Dave Hart and the University.


For the simple-minded, here’s the difference between Holly and Jennings/Moshak:

When you go .500 in SEC play and have a contract, then the school terminates that contract for poor performance, pays you a buyout, and hires whoever they want. That’s not discrimination, that’s coaching.

When you combine two media relations or athletic training departments and tell the head of one of them that they won’t be considered for the position of head of the combined department because they won’t have a woman in that position, that’s the definition of discrimination. When you then fire that person for pointing that out, then you have a lawsuit.

I have no idea if former wants to make a move, he certainly has not decided yet. But if she goes 500 in the conference, we’re going to find out how committed the school is to women’s basketball. And worries about legal action won’t enter the realm of discussion.
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Maybe so, however I've been told ( maybe it's not true, who knows? ) that Fulmer wants zero to do with making calls within the Lady Vols basketball program without the blessing of the old guard. And I think his hands off approach to a lot of sports has to do with fixing football first. Because when football is good everything else should prosper.
 
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#15
#15
Volsfaninva917 said:
Fulmer fires Holly, Debby Jennings gets pissed off. Holly teams up with Debby, Holly files a lawsuit for sexual discrimination against Fulmer. Fulmer wants not part of this, period.

Don't believe it can happen? See Debby Jennings vs. UT lawsuit
Click to expand...

Uh, yeah, exactly.

Debbie Jennings case was not based on TITLE IX. Jennings claimed that she was a victim of age and gender discrimination (again Title IX deals with matters of access and funding). Jennings filed under Title VII of the civil rights act. She also settled the case with UT for $320, 000.

Per Holly, the language of her contract, with 36 just cause provisions and a buy out clause, is written to protect the University from such lawsuits. Holly signed knowing the provisions. A suit would be thrown out. Her situation is entirely different from Jennings or Moshak.

I do believe that Fulmer wanted to avoid the bad press that would have arisen from being seen as firing Holly prematurely and that consideration played a role in her extension (though its terms signalled that Holly was not secure). The struggles the team have had this season now provide more than enough justification as, even the national press is suggesting a change is needed.
 
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#16
#16
madtownvol said:
IF Fulmer decided to cut the Lady vols basketball program, that would be a title IX issue but replacing Holly is not one.
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Truth. But don't confuse them with the facts. They don't know what Title IX is but they know they don't like it. There's an unfortunate stereotype that says any minority helped by legislation will automatically use it to sue the sh&t outta folks. Not sure why or how, but by God "those people" are on the phone with the lawyers as we speak!

Thankfully, the ADs team of lawyers will advise Fulmer he's allowed to let her go. I agree he has been trying to be sensitive about the situation, but not out of fear of lawsuit or some nebulous "old guard" but rather because of the circumstances of losing Pat.
 
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#19
#19
I wonder wat kind of school will hire Holly after, if she'll still want to coach.
 
#20
#20
DeerPark12 said:
Becky Hammon is not interested in coaching women’s basketball at any level. She wants to be the first female head coach in the NBA and she’s a lot closer than you think.

Give up on that pipe dream.
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Deerpark, I’m curious if you really are certain about Hammon not wanting to coach women, or just assuming that she wouldn't based on her current career trajectory. Not suggesting you are incorrect — just wondering if you heard it from Becky herself, another reliable source, or in a news story somewhere. I’d love to read the story if she was quoted saying that.

It does look to me like the NBA has her heart and mind right now, but I would LOOOOOOOVE to think that if the right opportunity came along that she’d consider the women’s game. I so AM dreaming of her on the sidelines of the Summitt because I believe she’d get the program back on top.
 
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#25
#25
A search is not underway and there are no plans to initiate one. It has nothing to do with the "Old Guard," "blue hairs," Pat, Pat supporters or Title IX. Fulmer is going to let the season play out before evaluating anything. When donors ask, he's very clear about that.
 
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