How Electric Cars Work

#1
golfballs

golfballs

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#1
FYI
RAMclr022412electric.jpg
 
#2
#2
I've always laughed at the notion that environmentalists and liberals love the idea of electric cars, but they are so vehemently against coal plants. Coal provides over half the energy consumed in this country. How the **** do they expect to power their electric cars without it? Wind and sunshine?

If they were the least bit educated on the matter, nuclear energy would be far and away the preferred method of generation vs. coal.
 
#3
#3
golfballs03 said:
How the **** do they expect to power their electric cars without it? Wind and sunshine?
Click to expand...

I think that is precisely how. But I've never understood the fascination with them, either. Our infrastructure is so inefficient. Something like 70% of the energy makes it from the plant to the end consumer (I made that number up).

Water supply infrastructure is just as bad, if not worse.

Although, coal plants are much, much, much, much, much more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than an internal combustion engine in your car is. It would seem the two would cancel out, and there would be next to no benefit.

The benefit is purely financial, but then you have factors there that cancel each other out. High initial cost to save you money in the long run on gas.
 
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#5
#5
Also, most coal plants have an efficiency of around 35%, with some super efficient coal plants reaching around 60%.

A typical car's engine efficiency is from 10% - 30%.

So, there is some benefit, but it's not like you would believe from the auto manufacturers marketing.

Also, I would expect (but could be wrong), that the emissions from a coal plant would be substantially less than the collective emissions of the thousands of vehicles that would be burning fuel individually, versus using electricity that is produced at the plant.
 
#6
#6
Thrasher865 said:
I think that is precisely how. But I've never understood the fascination with them, either. Our infrastructure is so inefficient. Something like 70% of the energy is lost between the plant and the end consumer (I made that number up).

Water supply infrastructure is just as bad, if not worse.

Although, coal plants are much, much, much, much, much more efficient at converting fossil fuels to energy than an internal combustion engine in your car is. It would seem the two would cancel out, and there would be next to no benefit.

The benefit is purely financial, but then you have factors there that cancel each other out. High initial cost to save you money in the long run on gas.
Click to expand...

And people come home in the evening and hook up their vehicles to charge... too bad the sun's not shining then!

Wind and sunshine is terribly inefficient. In Maui, a place that gets copious amounts of sunlight and the wind is always blowing, they have installed a massive wind and solar farm. The islands energy usage is very low - since they never need heating and cooling demands aren't very high. Despite this, that energy farm can't even power the island at night. Imagine the demands at night when people have to plug their vehicles in??
 
#7
#7
But at least you can draw a substantial portion from renewable energy. Whereas with traditional vehicles, 100% of the energy must come from fossil fuels. Unless you are comparing to flex fuel vehicles, too.
 
#8
#8
Thrasher865 said:
Also, most coal plants have an efficiency of around 35%, with some super efficient coal plants reaching around 60%.

A typical car's engine efficiency is from 10% - 30%.

So, there is some benefit, but it's not like you would believe from the auto manufacturers marketing.

Also, I would expect (but could be wrong), that the emissions from a coal plant would be substantially less than the collective emissions of the thousands of vehicles that would be burning fuel individually, versus using electricity that is produced at the plant.
Click to expand...

How efficient are electric cars? Particularly energy storage capabilities/battery efficiency.

I'd like to see the net energy demands of electric vehicles vs. gas in practical usage.
 
#9
#9
Thrasher865 said:
But at least you can draw a substantial portion from renewable energy. Whereas with traditional vehicles, 100% of the energy must come from fossil fuels. Unless you are comparing to flex fuel vehicles, too.
Click to expand...

No doubt that it helps - but that's in the rosiest of scenarios. Maui is very different than NYC, where alternative energy is just about worthless. Environmentalists think it's some sort of panacea. My bottom line, is that nuclear energy is far and away the most viable source of clean energy. Only then will electric cars be practical, IMO (that's once some of the energy storage/battery efficiency issues can be improved)
 
#10
#10
electric cars are 100% efficient.

I made that up, but I can guarantee you that they would blow the doors off the efficiency of an internal combustion engine.
 
#11
#11
Yes, we definitely need to think differently and develop some new ways to generate massive amounts of energy. In the mean time, coal does maintain its place as one of the major providers, despite the fact that regulatory agencies are pushing them for so many changes that they are almost regulating them out of business. That said, I would love to plug in a Tessla at my home each evening...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhVjXF0GiV4&feature=related[/youtube]

2012: Year of Model S - New Video | Blog | Tesla Motors
 
#12
#12
Here's something that can help:

LincolNEV: Are NEVs Really Cleaner?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CO2 lbs/mile NOx lbs/mile
Internal combustion engine passenger car (U.S. Avg.) 0.916 0.00306
Internal combustion engine passenger car (Calif. Avg.) 0.882 0.000903
NEV charged in an average U.S. location 0.299 0.00000428
NEV charged in California 0.136 0.000000825
Click to expand...
 
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#13
#13
Thrasher865 said:
electric cars are 100% efficient.

I made that up, but I can guarantee you that they would blow the doors off the efficiency of an internal combustion engine.
Click to expand...

From what i've understood, it's the batteries that are horribly inefficient. Energy storage is and always has been the issue. Efficient ones are extremely cost prohibitive
 
#14
#14
Love web forum code that eliminates tabs and spaces, making it virtually impossible to properly format tables. Oh well.
 
#16
#16
golfballs03 said:
I've always laughed at the notion that environmentalists and liberals love the idea of electric cars, but they are so vehemently against coal plants. Coal provides over half the energy consumed in this country. How the **** do they expect to power their electric cars without it? Wind and sunshine?

If they were the least bit educated on the matter, nuclear energy would be far and away the preferred method of generation vs. coal.
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with electric cars.
This may have been discussed back last summer. It was announced in June 2011.

Freedom Energy is building a $405 million coal gasification plant in Morristown. This plant will convert coal to diesel fuel. Building on a 115 acre site and will employ a total of 600 when completed, 450 to start and 150 more in 18 months

The process removes harmful byproducts such as mercury and sulfur. It also retains valuable ones such as zinc, platinum and iridium, which will be sold.

I do not know how many gallons of diesel they will be producing per day.

Good use for coal, IMO
 
#17
#17
Gramps said:
This has nothing to do with electric cars.
This may have been discussed back last summer.I was announced in June 2011.

Freedom Energy is building a $405 million coal gasification plant in Morristown. This plant will convert coal to diesel fuel. Building on a 115 acre site and will employ a total of 600 when completed, 450 to start and 150 more in 18 months

The process removes harmful byproducts such as mercury and sulfur. It also retains valuable ones such as zinc, platinum and iridium, which will be sold.

I do not know how many gallons of diesel they will be producing per day.

Good use for coal, IMO
Click to expand...

Seems like it, but prob depends on the cost.
 
#19
#19
Okay, try this:

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file48653.pdf

EVs have the potential to offer significant carbon dioxide and greenhouse gas emissions
reductions compared to conventional petrol/diesel fuelled internal combustion engines.
This applies over a full life cycle, taking account of emissions from power generation
and emissions relating to production and disposal. Based on the current UK grid mix
there are already significant benefits of the order of approximately 40% reduction; these
benefits have the potential to become much greater with further decarbonisation of the
UK power mix.
Click to expand...
 
#21
#21
I would too if I worked. It would be great to be able to ride horses and have carriages again. Energy problem fixed.
 
#22
#22
Thrasher865 said:
Okay, try this:

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file48653.pdf
Click to expand...

I'd have to dig into this, but right off the top, I'd take it with a grain of salt because this report is obviously UK specific - hard to relate to the US. Car ownership per capita in the UK is significantly lower than the US. And the miles traveled is vastly lower.

For short-distance commuting - like in the UK, electric vehicles make a lot more sense.
 
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