How have Bama become this good?

#203
#203
BigOrangeTrain said:
I hate the cheating excuse crap too. I am sorry there are Vol fans who uses that crap as an excuse as to why your team is so good. The fact is your team is vastly better than ours right now. We are on our way back up. Until the NCAA brings up evidence that Saban has been cheating, you're innocent in my book. The fans who are accusing you guys of cheating are just sore losers. All Vol fans do not feel this way, trust me.
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:crazy:
 
#204
#204
Saban. Best college football coach. Recruiting. Money. And yes they probably break NCAA rules. Everybody does, it's just a matter of who gets caught. Not to justify anybody, but the NCAA has no balls so teams are gonna break the rules.
 
#205
#205
VolunteerHillbilly said:
If Saban was a football genius he wouldn't have skipped out on the NFL one step ahead of Don Shulas firing squad. Obviously, Saban is at the top of the college game and part of being at the top of that game means cutting every possible corner without getting nailed. Alabama does have some decent HS football but its no Florida, Cali, or Texas. it's not even a Georgia when it comes to in state talent. Kids want to play for a winner but the top of the class wants to to have their talent showcased early and often to maximize NFL draft position after 3 years. It is curious that so many of those elite prospects would go to a place where they know they will ride the pine for awhile and, when they do finally get to play, they're playing for a coach who has a rep for getting his players chewed up to the point that they don't last long in the pros and subsequenlty don't get drafted high.
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It is very debatable if Saban is really the best coach/coaching staff in the NCAA. What they do well is recruit. That is part perspiration and part product they are selling.

Recruiting at that level means you win at a very predictable rate (70% overall, about 80% in the SEC and about 90% in BCS championship games). If Saban was a GREAT coach, they would never lose a game based solely on the difference of their talent and everyone else.

Saban isn't doing that. He wins the national championships so people tend to overlook when he gets outcoached by teams who run a system he can't control. Think of the teams to beat him since he started at Bama, what do they have in common with Oregon who they will likely be meeting in the BCS game?

In my view it is also a myth that Saban develops talent extraordinarily well. I haven't researched all of the numbers, but my hypothesis is that Bama with all of their success tends to wash players out of the NFL at an unusually high rate. That would tend to tell me that the players aren't being developed and might actually be hindered slightly by playing for Saban. As I said, I haven't researched the numbers fully on that statement, it is just my hypothesis.

I give credit where it is due. Bama is an exceptionally talented team. But things are transpiring that point to being the end of their legendary run. 1) They are losing a ton of talent at key positions after this season, 2)the SEC is changing from what we view as a traditional system (ground and pound) to a read-option or spread heavy offensive scheme (UT/Auburn/Ole Miss/ Texas A&M, etc). Even with massive talent differentials, Saban/Smart have trouble with tricky schemes. 3) Texas could very well be a real contender when it comes to luring Saban away from Bama. It is inarguable that Austin is a far superior school and city from Tuscaloosa, and living there making over 10 million a year base salary would be nice.

My point is this: Saban and Fulmer are similar style coaches. They both rely on superior talent to beat you, not superior coaching. The difference is that Saban's recruiting is superior, where Fulmer's was inconsistent. Saban's teams never face a team with more talent, Fulmer regularly did with Florida and other non-SEC schools.
 
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#206
#206
They got tired of losing, so, rather than keep saying "Wait until next year" or "You just got to give ____ more time" they went out and spent a fortune and hired the best coach that money could buy. It's not that much of a mystery, really.
 
#207
#207
daj2576 said:
My point is this: Saban and Fulmer are similar style coaches. They both rely on superior talent to beat you, not superior coaching. The difference is that Saban's recruiting is superior, where Fulmer's was inconsistent. Saban's teams never face a team with more talent, Fulmer regularly did with Florida and other non-SEC schools.
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Odd then that Saban beat Fulmer regularly, even when he had inferior talent. Also, Saban took over a Michigan State team that was 0-11 and under NCAA sanctions when he got there and he regularly upset top 25 teams throughout his time there. He also inherited a 3-8 LSU team and won the SEC championship with them 2 years later. He did that by upsetting teams with more talent. And at Alabama, in his 3rd year, he beat an extremely talented (and favored) UF team loaded with seniors to win the SEC and, ultimately national championship. The guy is a far better X's and O's guy than you're giving him credit for.

daj2576 said:
Recruiting at that level means you win at a very predictable rate (70% overall, about 80% in the SEC and about 90% in BCS championship games). If Saban was a GREAT coach, they would never lose a game based solely on the difference of their talent and everyone else.
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No one never loses a game. That's ridiculous. By your standards there would be no great coaches. Saban has come as close as anyone in the last 2 decades has to that kind of dominance though. You can't just attribute it solely to recruiting.
 
#208
#208
tm3 said:
Bama has become this good because there is a unified vision shared by the athletic and academic arms of the university, and supported by the boosters, city, and state.

The decision was made to go for the best, and they went out and got Saban for the then unprecedented sum of $4mil per year. Rivals and the press had a field day with the hoohaws and geegaws but, who is laughing now?

Similar processes have been followed over the last 20 years by UF, and more recently by Ohio St. Check the BCS rankings and trophy cases to see how it has worked out.
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With the talent Florida has available, if they truly had the unified vision that you are suggesting, they would make what Bama has done look silly. while Florida has clicked off a massive amount of wins the past twenty years, and has 3 national championships to show for it, they actually tend to trend well below what any reasonable reading of their talent would predict.

Muschamp is currently the largest under-performing coach in the NCAA. He moved in to that spot after USC fired Kiff. The bad news for Gators is that with the openings at HC positions after this season, you almost can't compete with either USC or Texas, so it might be best to hold on to Champ for another season.

I know, I know, they have beat UT for 9 years running. I am not suggesting that UT is the model of efficiency. UT has had trouble recruiting which largely explains where we are now.
 
#209
#209
daj2576 said:
It is very debatable if Saban is really the best coach/coaching staff in the NCAA. What they do well is recruit. That is part perspiration and part product they are selling.

Recruiting at that level means you win at a very predictable rate (70% overall, about 80% in the SEC and about 90% in BCS championship games). If Saban was a GREAT coach, they would never lose a game based solely on the difference of their talent and everyone else.

Saban isn't doing that. He wins the national championships so people tend to overlook when he gets outcoached by teams who run a system he can't control. Think of the teams to beat him since he started at Bama, what do they have in common with Oregon who they will likely be meeting in the BCS game?

In my view it is also a myth that Saban develops talent extraordinarily well. I haven't researched all of the numbers, but my hypothesis is that Bama with all of their success tends to wash players out of the NFL at an unusually high rate. That would tend to tell me that the players aren't being developed and might actually be hindered slightly by playing for Saban. As I said, I haven't researched the numbers fully on that statement, it is just my hypothesis.

I give credit where it is due. Bama is an exceptionally talented team. But things are transpiring that point to being the end of their legendary run. 1) They are losing a ton of talent at key positions after this season, 2)the SEC is changing from what we view as a traditional system (ground and pound) to a read-option or spread heavy offensive scheme (UT/Auburn/Ole Miss/ Texas A&M, etc). Even with massive talent differentials, Saban/Smart have trouble with tricky schemes. 3) Texas could very well be a real contender when it comes to luring Saban away from Bama. It is inarguable that Austin is a far superior school and city from Tuscaloosa, and living there making over 10 million a year base salary would be nice.

My point is this: Saban and Fulmer are similar style coaches. They both rely on superior talent to beat you, not superior coaching. The difference is that Saban's recruiting is superior, where Fulmer's was inconsistent. Saban's teams never face a team with more talent, Fulmer regularly did with Florida and other non-SEC schools.
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Threadworthy post imo. I agree about Saban. I'd love to see all the responses from the mouthbreathers that he's similar to Fulmer. That would be comedy for sure.

The one thing that Saban does better than Fulmer did was assemble a top notch staff.
 
#210
#210
stephenk24 said:
I know this may sound like a silly question, so please forgive me.....

Can someone explain how Bama are as good as they are?

Is it really just good coaching and recruiting or are they violating some rules here?

I just get the impression that if the NCAA did a proper investigation, they would come down like a ton of bricks....

Maybe I am just trying to find an excuse for the loss, I don't know, but they are in a different league to the rest of the sport, to the point where it is becoming suspicious.....

Any explanation would be great.

GO VOLS.
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recruiting

2013 - # 1 class
2012 - # 1 class
2011 - # 1 class
2010 - # 5 class
2009 - # 1 class
2008 - # 1 class
2007 - # 10 class

those are Saban's recruiting classes
 
#211
#211
LWSVOL said:
recruiting

2013 - # 1 class
2012 - # 1 class
2011 - # 1 class
2010 - # 5 class
2009 - # 1 class
2008 - # 1 class
2007 - # 10 class

those are Saban's recruiting classes
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Money well spent imo. Bama buys players, but at least they win with them. Better than Miami, USC, Florida St., etc.
 
#215
#215
Brave Volunteer said:
This is probably the best explanation I've seen. You're right about Saban not getting lazy. His SUSTAINED work ethic year after year is unprecedented and frankly I don't see how these coaches keep up that kind of pace without it having serious effects on their health and personal lives. What's so off-putting to me about Saban is, maybe it's just me but Saban comes across as a complete joyless drone! Like he absolutely does not allow himself to ever step back and just enjoy what he's accomplished! He's a stark contrast to someone like, say Pete Carroll when he was at USC. That guy was all smiles all the time and seemed to truly enjoy the experience of college coaching.
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Saban is driven beyond belief. I honestly think he will step aside and retire once he has matched or passed Coach Bryant in the number of national championships at BAMA. IMHO, I think he retires within the next 6-8 years. Coach Saban looks at kids that fit his system instead of trying to grab all 5* with attitude problems. Now some of those kids will and do make mistakes, but for the most part, they keep their noses clean. As stated from an earlier post, the expectations are high! Tradition, facilities, the chance to win championships, chance for the NFL are all there.
 
#216
#216
All of this will come to a spectacular ending on November 30th when Auburn dismantles bammer on the field. Bammer is about the most overrated squad in the nation. Auburn has all around better talent and more depth than them. The game will be well in hand after the first quarter. Bammer's horrid defense will get exposed. Nick Marshall will rip them to shreds much like Cam Newton did to them in 2010. Now, of course the bammers will jump up and shout "have you seen the last two Alabama-Auburn games?" "we handed them two of the worst losses in their history!". Now, that much is true. The last two times Bama has put some beat downs on Auburn. In 2011, Bama handed them their worst home loss ever, and last year Bama handed Auburn their second worst defeat of all time.

But, notice one little thing. The last two years, Auburn has been dreadful. It's easy to beat up on a team that is in a slump. And that's all Bama has EVER done. They own the series with us when we are down. They own the series with Auburn when they are down. We are still down. Not down like we were under Fooley, but still down nonetheless. Auburn, however is no longer down. They have a better team than Bama, and every time that happens, they curb stomp Bama. That will happen again in about a month. As long as Auburn is even halfway decent, they always beat Bama. And this year, they are far and away better. Once Auburn destroys them, the fans will jump like rats from a sinking ship. They will no longer get these top recruits, and $aban will tip toe on out of Tuscaloosa, just like his buddy Pete Carroll did at USC years ago. Then they will be back to having to settle for the likes of Mike Price and Dennis "I will not leave for Texas A&M" Franphony!
 
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#217
#217
Jezebel Rollo said:
All of this will come to a spectacular ending on November 30th when Auburn dismantles bammer on the field. Bammer is about the most overrated squad in the nation. Auburn has all around better talent and more depth than them. The game will be well in hand after the first quarter. Bammer's horrid defense will get exposed. Nick Marshall will rip them to shreds much like Cam Newton did to them in 2010. Now, of course the bammers will jump up and shout "have you seen the last two Alabama-Auburn games?" "we handed them two of the worst losses in their history!". Now, that much is true. The last two times Bama has put some beat downs on Auburn. In 2011, Bama handed them their worst home loss ever, and last year Bama handed Auburn their second worst defeat of all time.

But, notice one little thing. The last two years, Auburn has been dreadful. It's easy to beat up on a team that is in a slump. And that's all Bama has EVER done. They own the series with us when we are down. They own the series with Auburn when they are down. We are still down. Not down like we were under Fooley, but still down nonetheless. Auburn, however is no longer down. They have a better team than Bama, and every time that happens, they curb stomp Bama. That will happen again in about a month. As long as Auburn is even halfway decent, they always beat Bama. And this year, they are far and away better. Once Auburn destroys them, the fans will jump like rats from a sinking ship. They will no longer get these top recruits, and $aban will tip toe on out of Tuscaloosa, just like his buddy Pete Carroll did at USC years ago. Then they will be back to having to settle for the likes of Mike Price and Dennis "I will not leave for Texas A&M" Franphony!
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You may be right, but just to be safe, don't bet your trailer on it.
 
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#218
#218
bamacheats said:
You may be right, but just to be safe, don't bet your trailer on it.
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The proof is in the pudding. Auburn walloped the same Texas A&M team that bammer barely got by. Auburn also held Ole Miss to negative yardage. That same Ole Miss team ran on bammer's piss poor defense all night. But, bammer won't be undefeated come time to play Auburn. LSU will beat them by at least three touchdowns and Auburn will destroy them something like 62-14. Count on it.
 
#219
#219
LWSVOL said:
recruiting

2013 - # 1 class
2012 - # 1 class
2011 - # 1 class
2010 - # 5 class
2009 - # 1 class
2008 - # 1 class
2007 - # 10 class

those are Saban's recruiting classes
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Oh lord, I didn't realise they were that dominant for so long on the recruiting front! :eek:
 
#220
#220
Volfan3 said:
DON'T MEAN TO BE OFFENSIVE, BUT YOUR AVATAR SAYS BRITISH BORN AND RAISED. MAYBE YOU ONLY CROSSED THE "BIG POND" LAST YEAR, BUT BAMMERS HAVE BEEN CHEATING FOR YEARS. THE LAST SEVEN YEARS NOW, WE HAVE BEEN BEATEN, ALMOST DOMINATED EVERY YEAR BY THIS TEAM. I SAY READ OTHER COMMENTS. SOME REFER TO CHEATING, SOME REFER TO THEM HAVING A GREAT COACH AND HE HAS BUILT A DYNASTY. THEN RENDER YOUR OWN OPINION.. GO VOLS!!!!:rock:
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I can barely read this. Is this just an insult or are you trying to actually tell me something?

I understand that I don't always ask the most intelligent questions, but it you need to understand that it isn't easy picking up a sport with such a rich and detailed history, when you live in a country that doesn't even know it exists....:unsure:
 
#222
#222
Jezebel Rollo said:
All of this will come to a spectacular ending on November 30th when Auburn dismantles bammer on the field. Bammer is about the most overrated squad in the nation. Auburn has all around better talent and more depth than them. The game will be well in hand after the first quarter. Bammer's horrid defense will get exposed. Nick Marshall will rip them to shreds much like Cam Newton did to them in 2010. Now, of course the bammers will jump up and shout "have you seen the last two Alabama-Auburn games?" "we handed them two of the worst losses in their history!". Now, that much is true. The last two times Bama has put some beat downs on Auburn. In 2011, Bama handed them their worst home loss ever, and last year Bama handed Auburn their second worst defeat of all time.

But, notice one little thing. The last two years, Auburn has been dreadful. It's easy to beat up on a team that is in a slump. And that's all Bama has EVER done. They own the series with us when we are down. They own the series with Auburn when they are down. We are still down. Not down like we were under Fooley, but still down nonetheless. Auburn, however is no longer down. They have a better team than Bama, and every time that happens, they curb stomp Bama. That will happen again in about a month. As long as Auburn is even halfway decent, they always beat Bama. And this year, they are far and away better. Once Auburn destroys them, the fans will jump like rats from a sinking ship. They will no longer get these top recruits, and $aban will tip toe on out of Tuscaloosa, just like his buddy Pete Carroll did at USC years ago. Then they will be back to having to settle for the likes of Mike Price and Dennis "I will not leave for Texas A&M" Franphony!
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I like your post...love it in fact, and I want Auburn to win. Let me say this though...although Auburn's talent is a step up from Tennessee's, they are still far behind Alabummer. EVERYONE is. Au's last 4 recruiting classes were an average of 7 in the country, while bammer's is 2 (3 no 1s and a 5th). This is all per Rivals. For reference, Tennessee is 15th averaged over the last 4 years.

I don't know why you think AU is more talented than bammer but it isn't true.

As for a point you make in another post, Au didn't dominate Tamu compared to bammer...they only won by 4 points!

Auburn has a decent chance to upset bammer since it's at home and that tends to be a game where anything happens, but let's not get carried away.

But...WAR EFFING EAGLE baby!
 
#223
#223
Jezebel Rollo said:
The proof is in the pudding. Auburn walloped the same Texas A&M team that bammer barely got by. Auburn also held Ole Miss to negative yardage. That same Ole Miss team ran on bammer's piss poor defense all night. But, bammer won't be undefeated come time to play Auburn. LSU will beat them by at least three touchdowns and Auburn will destroy them something like 62-14. Count on it.
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You have NO CLUE!! BAMA was up by 21 @ A&M going into the 4th while the Barn needed a NO CALL on an obvious horsecollar to survive! Negative yardage to Ole Piss but they put up 22 points!?!!! BAMA shut Ole Piss out!! LSwho will lose in T'town and then BAMA will spank that Barner azz by AT LEAST 2 touchdowns!!!
 
#224
#224
Brave Volunteer said:
Not saying you're wrong but, what exactly do you base that on?
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Don't know about the OP, but I would say based on what I have seen about Butch that he at least is a good match for Saban. Just thinking about the calls against uga going for it on 4th down and the USCe game, where he arguably out coached sos.

Heck...the last thing the ole ball sack said in his presser was just that...."we got outcoached".

Maybe "outcoach" is putting it a bit too strong, but I DEFINITELY believe Butch can hold his own...based on what I have seen so far.

It would be nice to see bammer play an equally talented team....they have not done so since at least 2010, and perhaps even before then. Saban's really good recruiting run started in 2007.
 
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