How long can we sustain present government economic policies?

[gsvol]

Welfare recipients outnumber taxpayers   - Editorials - Charleston Daily Mail - West Virginia News and Sports -

Paul LePage, the Republican governor of Maine, mentioned an uncomfortable truth in a radio address this month: Maine has more welfare recipients than income tax payers.

Democrats challenged the accuracy of this assertion.

The Bangor Daily News fact-checked LePage and discovered that 445,074 Mainers paid state income tax, while 453,194 received some sort of state aid.

In Maine, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps and subsidies for education have a combined enrollment of 660,000.

Adjusting for overlap reduces the number to 453,194 - or 8,120 more people on state assistance than there are state income taxpayers in Maine.

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention....

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0 0 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics and emergency hospitals at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has 9,631 .00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal Rent Subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance. Some of that is uninsured motorist insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc..

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month..

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same elementary school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches, while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Now, when they reach college age, Joe Legal's kids may not get into a State School and may not qualify for scholarships, grants or other tuition help, even though Joe has been paying for State Schools through his taxes, while Jose Illegal's kids "go to the head of the class" because they are a minority.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Do you get it, now?

It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans.

 

[Gramps]

Good post GS

 

[YorkVol]

Ok, I think this sums up the friction between the middle and working poor classes on one side and the non-working poor on the other. The illegal immigrant example is not as accurate as portrayed, however. I know many working immigrants who don't draw assistance and an equal number of non-working Americans riding the public dole. Also, most of the immigrants I know who are on welfare would most likely have the name Boris or Vlad, not Jose. In other words, your argument would carry more weight without the racial overtones.

But, nevertheless I am tired of being one of a very few families at my kids school who pay for their lunches...

 

[gsvol]

Ok, I think this sums up the friction between the middle and working poor classes on one side and the non-working poor on the other. The illegal immigrant example is not as accurate as portrayed, however. I know many working immigrants who don't draw assistance and an equal number of non-working Americans riding the public dole. Also, most of the immigrants I know who are on welfare would most likely have the name Boris or Vlad, not Jose. In other words, your argument would carry more weight without the racial overtones.

But, nevertheless I am tired of being one of a very few families at my kids school who pay for their lunches...

How is the illegal immigrant example not accurate?

I have worked with many legal immigrants from many nations and know a man who employs about 40 legal immigrants and I have nothing bad to say about any of them.

I do have a problem with illegal immigrants, we had better do something about that problem, sooner rather than later.

You accuse me to racial overtones and then speak of Boris and Vlad?

 

[n_huffhines]

You mean "present economic policy" like the money our government wastes policing the world, GS?

 

[therealUT]

Welfare recipients outnumber taxpayers * - Editorials - Charleston Daily Mail - West Virginia News and Sports -



You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention....

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0 0 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics and emergency hospitals at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has 9,631 .00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal Rent Subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance. Some of that is uninsured motorist insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc..

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month..

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same elementary school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches, while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Now, when they reach college age, Joe Legal's kids may not get into a State School and may not qualify for scholarships, grants or other tuition help, even though Joe has been paying for State Schools through his taxes, while Jose Illegal's kids "go to the head of the class" because they are a minority.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Do you get it, now?

It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans.

By the way, the majority of illegal immigrants and undocumented workers do not get paid 'under the table'; large corporations register them and pay them just like everyone else. This means that taxes come out of their paychecks; also, a very small percentage of illegal immigrants and undocumented workers file tax returns. This means that for their income level, illegal immigrants and undocumented workers are actually paying more into the system that you are claiming they are exploiting.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

How is the illegal immigrant example not accurate?

I have worked with many legal immigrants from many nations and know a man who employs about 40 legal immigrants and I have nothing bad to say about any of them.

I do have a problem with illegal immigrants, we had better do something about that problem, sooner rather than later.

You accuse me to racial overtones and then speak of Boris and Vlad?

I thought that was funny also.

 

[gsvol]

You mean "present economic policy" like the money our government wastes policing the world, GS?

All of that certainly isn't a waste, even though I fail to see why we should be obligated more than others or why we pay more than our share to support the UN that certainly doesn't cater to the USA.

The biggests wastes currently are, an idiotic, wasteful energy policy, support for financial institutions that are bleeding us dry and too much and misdirected foreign aid.

A couple of examples; we have spend upwards of $500 million worldwide building and refurbishing mosques, for what reason?

We have just approved $750 million for building infrastructre for the 'palestinian' Arabs, why can't the oil rich Arab states do that?

Another alarming economic policy is the $15 trillion national debt, in 2010 we paid $400 billion just in interest. How long can we sustain that sort of policy?

 

[therealUT]

The biggests wastes currently are, an idiotic, wasteful energy policy, support for financial institutions that are bleeding us dry and too much and misdirected foreign aid.

Actually, the biggest wastes are:
1. Healthcare (Medicare)
2. Government Pensions
3. Defense & Education
4. Welfare Programs

While energy policy plays a part (a less productive America leads to less revenue collected by the Government and more payouts in terms of Welfare; of course, our energy policy also plays a large part in our 'Defense' spending), it is certainly not to be considered the 'biggest waste'.

 

[YorkVol]

How is the illegal immigrant example not accurate?

I have worked with many legal immigrants from many nations and know a man who employs about 40 legal immigrants and I have nothing bad to say about any of them.

I do have a problem with illegal immigrants, we had better do something about that problem, sooner rather than later.

You accuse me to racial overtones and then speak of Boris and Vlad?

My point was simply that there are more Americans on welfare than immigrants. There are certainly illegal immigrants taking advantage of our welfare system, but what I'm seeing in York is the ones who are really taking advantage are the ones coming in from eastern Europe rather than the Spanish speaking countries. You seem to imply that illegal equals Hispanic which is not always the case. I agree with the need for massive reform, but I think focusing on one group, the Jose Illegals, takes away from the effectiveness of your argument.

 

[gsvol]

Actually, the biggest wastes are:
1. Healthcare (Medicare)
2. Government Pensions
3. Defense & Education
4. Welfare Programs

While energy policy plays a part (a less productive America leads to less revenue collected by the Government and more payouts in terms of Welfare; of course, our energy policy also plays a large part in our 'Defense' spending), it is certainly not to be considered the 'biggest waste'.

Our present energy policy is what bankrupted Spain and if pursued long enough will bankrupt the USA.

The latest development is stopping the Keystone pipeline, in which case the Canadians will sell to China, and who can blame them?

Killing the programs that produce the energy that makes this a thriving nation for farfetched ecological reasons means we will continue to have a huge outflow of cash to the mideast and much of that money will be used against us.

My point was simply that there are more Americans on welfare than immigrants. There are certainly illegal immigrants taking advantage of our welfare system, but what I'm seeing in York is the ones who are really taking advantage are the ones coming in from eastern Europe rather than the Spanish speaking countries. You seem to imply that illegal equals Hispanic which is not always the case. I agree with the need for massive reform, but I think focusing on one group, the Jose Illegals, takes away from the effectiveness of your argument.

Good points all.

My point is that government policies don't seem to direct the illegal immigrant into trying to abide by the law.

Of course we have plenty of legal immigrants who take advantage of government welfare.

Certainly not all immigrants, legal or illegal, are deadbeats, probably the majority are hard working and desirous of taking advantage of opportunities they don't have where they came from.