How many pros they got?

#1
kidbourbon

kidbourbon

Disgusting!
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#1
I'm too lazy and busy to locate the thread and the quote, but in a thread a couple weeks ago, hatvol noted that the amount of NBA talent on a given team is a good metric for determining whether that team is final four material. This is a simple, intuitive observation. One that would be difficult to argue against, but that is maybe overlooked at times.

I haven't done anything remotely resembling exhaustive research on this, but off the top of my head, I think that there are four teams that have three NBA-caliber players on their roster. These aren't guys that might get drafted these are guys that will get drafted.

Louisville: Williams, Clark, Samuels
UConn: Thabeet, Price, Adrien
Wake: Teague, Aminu, and Johnson
UNC: Hansbrough, Lawson, Green

Pitt: Blair, Young
Oklahoma: Griffin, Warren
Duke: Henderson, Singler
There are a couple other teams with two: Arizona, Arizona State, USC, LSU

Am I missing any three NBA-player teams? Is there a four NBA-player team this year? Please opine, I have not researched this thoroughly enough to call it gospel.

It obviously isn't a coincidence that the teams that have three definite NBA players are some of the top teams. Look back at some past final fours....there is no denying that the talent factor looms large come tournament time.

Now comes the question portion of this post:
1) Is Chism a definite NBA player? I don't think he is. I think he could potentially get drafted in the second round if he stays another year.
2) Is Hopson a definite NBA player? Too early to tell, but I have a hunch that he will. He has shown flashes of brilliance and I can see his game progressing by leaps and bounds as he learns to be more aggressive and use his obvious athletic ability to his advantage.

So, by my cursory analysis, that makes Tennessee a 2.5 on a scale that appears to only go to 3. Hmmmm. Maybe we can surprise some folks in the tourney...make a run. I personally doubt it, but I'll keep an eye out nonetheless.
 
#2
#2
this is correlation not causation. But even if it's not a good predictor, it's an interesting consideration.

You did a good job covering the bases, I can't off the top of my head think of another team really.
 
#4
#4
UNC probably has at least 5 who would get drafted if they declared. Hansbrough, Ellington, Green, Lawson, Ed Davis, and even Ginyard if he was healthy.
 
#6
#6
nashvillevolunteer said:
UNC probably has at least 5 who would get drafted if they declared. Hansbrough, Ellington, Green, Lawson, Ed Davis, and even Ginyard if he was healthy.
Click to expand...

If you are talking about the ones that are coming out this year, they have 4. If you are talking about this year and the future, they probably have 7 or 8
 
#7
#7
The Doc, Jeff, and Heather Show (Yes, I know, a program rivaled in pathetic only by Phil Williams' in the afternoon) had a caller this morning asking about UT's pro capable players. Will West (the only brains on the show) got me thinking in terms of our big three's future roles in the League:

Chism- would have to play the 3 (small forward) in the NBA. No way he could bang with Carlos Boozer, Tim Duncan, Dirk, Millsaps, David West, Rasheed, etc... He's too small to play 4 and not athletic enough to be a 3

Smith- tweener. He profiles like a Brewer (from Utah) or Shane Battier. His perimeter shooting will have to dramatically improve as well as his perimeter defense as he'd be asked to guard 2s and 3s

Hopson- Far and away the most Potential (with a capital P). 6'7" long and athletic. He's the prototype small forward/shooting guard slasher. Unfortunately, he doesn't bring it night in and night out with intensity ala Tyreke Evans from Memphis (who has done a great job at the point by the way)
 
#8
#8
lidderer said:
this is correlation not causation. But even if it's not a good predictor, it's an interesting consideration.

You did a good job covering the bases, I can't off the top of my head think of another team really.
Click to expand...

Do you even know what you are talking about in regards to statistics? It's both. To say that NBA talent doesn't lead to teams advancing further in the NCAA tournament is idiotic at best. Your post suggests that it is coincidence that these things occur, kind of like the correlation between ice cream consumption and drowning deaths (because both happen more in the summer). While the CAUSATION is not 100%, it's definitely a big factor in determining which teams will advance.
 
#9
#9
Hopson will have to change his shot to do anything in the NBA, but I think he is the best pro prospect.
 
#10
#10
Mattlock said:
Hopson will have to change his shot to do anything in the NBA, but I think he is the best pro prospect.
Click to expand...

No he won't. Shot is fine. Harder to block actually. More often than not it goes in - the only downside is he misses bad when he misses... but hey a miss is a miss no matter what way you look at it.
 
#11
#11
Mattlock said:
Hopson will have to change his shot to do anything in the NBA, but I think he is the best pro prospect.
Click to expand...

Tony Jones has said they will work on his shot in the offseason.

IMO He needs to use more of his legs on his shot instead of his arm, its why it causes his arc on his shot to go so high.

The coaches will tweak it and hopefully Hopson can continue to become a better shooter.
 
#12
#12
Bassmanbruno said:
No he won't. Shot is fine. Harder to block actually. More often than not it goes in - the only downside is he misses bad when he misses... but hey a miss is a miss no matter what way you look at it.
Click to expand...

we can agree on harder to block yes, and he is definitely hitting more lately, but he will never be a consistently great shooter. . .which actually makes him perfect for the NBA, so nevermind :)
 
#13
#13
Oldblood said:
Do you even know what you are talking about in regards to statistics? It's both. To say that NBA talent doesn't lead to teams advancing further in the NCAA tournament is idiotic at best. Your post suggests that it is coincidence that these things occur, kind of like the correlation between ice cream consumption and drowning deaths (because both happen more in the summer). While the CAUSATION is not 100%, it's definitely a big factor in determining which teams will advance.
Click to expand...

Yes I do.

It's not always the case, and obviously can't be, and if anything it's redundant and needless. Supporting casts both benefit from and give benefit to a premiere player. We could drudge through the history of this until the cows come home, but I think we probably both agree on that from the get-go.

There are a number of players who become 'nba material' b/c of their proximity to success and successful players.

But the main point was that though there are cases of great college players not making the nba, there are more often than not cases where great college players make the nba. Which is to say: all that really matters is if you have good players, not good nba players, necessarily.

Since collegeball is often described as a different game where certain players do better than they would in the pros, it serves greater purpose to locate a team with 3 great college players than potential nba players. And if we're gonna assume that most WILL become nba players, than we can go back to square 1 and save ourselves the time of making a needless distinction.

players with talent will get you there. do you see what I mean?(I admit it's a bit poorly worded above)
 
#14
#14
kidbourbon said:
I'm too lazy and busy to locate the thread and the quote, but in a thread a couple weeks ago, hatvol noted that the amount of NBA talent on a given team is a good metric for determining whether that team is final four material. This is a simple, intuitive observation. One that would be difficult to argue against, but that is maybe overlooked at times.

I haven't done anything remotely resembling exhaustive research on this, but off the top of my head, I think that there are four teams that have three NBA-caliber players on their roster. These aren't guys that might get drafted these are guys that will get drafted.

Louisville: Williams, Clark, Samuels
UConn: Thabeet, Price, Adrien
Wake: Teague, Aminu, and Johnson
UNC: Hansbrough, Lawson, Green

Pitt: Blair, Young
Oklahoma: Griffin, Warren
Duke: Henderson, Singler
There are a couple other teams with two: Arizona, Arizona State, USC, LSU

Am I missing any three NBA-player teams? Is there a four NBA-player team this year? Please opine, I have not researched this thoroughly enough to call it gospel.

It obviously isn't a coincidence that the teams that have three definite NBA players are some of the top teams. Look back at some past final fours....there is no denying that the talent factor looms large come tournament time.

Now comes the question portion of this post:
1) Is Chism a definite NBA player? I don't think he is. I think he could potentially get drafted in the second round if he stays another year.
2) Is Hopson a definite NBA player? Too early to tell, but I have a hunch that he will. He has shown flashes of brilliance and I can see his game progressing by leaps and bounds as he learns to be more aggressive and use his obvious athletic ability to his advantage.

So, by my cursory analysis, that makes Tennessee a 2.5 on a scale that appears to only go to 3. Hmmmm. Maybe we can surprise some folks in the tourney...make a run. I personally doubt it, but I'll keep an eye out nonetheless.
Click to expand...
Stanley Robinson will get drafted from UCONN.
 
#16
#16
Hey HAT, does Josh Carter (aTm) get drafted this year? If so, what round do you predict?
 
#17
#17
On Vol calls Pearl said that Hopson's shot arc has dropped off considerably, enough to where the coaches feel comfortable play calling for him. Just something to think about.
 
#18
#18
hatvol96 said:
He doesn't miss much there. Ellington will be a mid second round pick at best.
Click to expand...

I agree. He should have went last year where he was almost guaranteed to be a 1st round pick. Nevertheless he will still get drafted.
 
#19
#19
UTLCA said:
On Vol calls Pearl said that Hopson's shot arc has dropped off considerably, enough to where the coaches feel comfortable play calling for him. Just something to think about.
Click to expand...

It did seem to have a little less arc the last few games, but its hard to tell on TV. The early games I was able to go to, his shot looked so much higher in person.
 
#22
#22
BigPapaVol said:
Ellington as a first rounder last year? How was that going to happen?
Click to expand...

One of the teams with a first round pick was going to draft him.

Seriously though, he was projected as a later first rounder or early second and my thoughts were he would go first round.
 
#23
#23
SmokeyTop said:
One of the teams with a first round pick was going to draft him.

Seriously though, he was projected as a later first rounder or early second and my thoughts were he would go first round.
Click to expand...
who had him as a late first rounder. That's crazy talk.
 
#25
#25
beavbullvol said:
The Doc, Jeff, and Heather Show (Yes, I know, a program rivaled in pathetic only by Phil Williams' in the afternoon) had a caller this morning asking about UT's pro capable players. Will West (the only brains on the show) got me thinking in terms of our big three's future roles in the League:

Chism- would have to play the 3 (small forward) in the NBA. No way he could bang with Carlos Boozer, Tim Duncan, Dirk, Millsaps, David West, Rasheed, etc... He's too small to play 4 and not athletic enough to be a 3

Smith- tweener. He profiles like a Brewer (from Utah) or Shane Battier. His perimeter shooting will have to dramatically improve as well as his perimeter defense as he'd be asked to guard 2s and 3s

Hopson- Far and away the most Potential (with a capital P). 6'7" long and athletic. He's the prototype small forward/shooting guard slasher. Unfortunately, he doesn't bring it night in and night out with intensity ala Tyreke Evans from Memphis (who has done a great job at the point by the way)
Click to expand...

actually Chism has the size to be a 4. If he was a 3 then he would get destroyed. Imagine Chism trying to guard Lebron or Durant.
 
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