how much is the LV basketball team (franchise) worth?

[stllvf]

I read an article that the Indiana University quoting the Wall street journal where a finance professor had valued college basketball teams Ky @ Louisville 340 and320 million.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/who-wins-the-ncaa-tournament-of-profit-margins-1490911465o

Somewhat less that the three figures billions of the NFL Cowboys.

When Pat was coaching she was the most noted person in the state and involved with the University and the LVs had a national presence. which translates into dollars -

A strong argument could be made about the importance of maintaining the LadyVols marketing brand from the standpoint of $$$. Given the sophistication of data mining currently I'm sure the issue has been researched.

Question: How much is LV basketball valued in your professional opinion?

 

[chuck0303]

I read an article that the Indiana University quoting the Wall street journal where a finance professor had valued college basketball teams Ky @ Louisville 340 and320 million.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/who-wins-the-ncaa-tournament-of-profit-margins-1490911465o

Somewhat less that the three figures billions of the NFL Cowboys.

When Pat was coaching she was the most noted person in the state and involved with the University and the LVs had a national presence. which translates into dollars -

A strong argument could be made about the importance of maintaining the LadyVols marketing brand from the standpoint of $$$. Given the sophistication of data mining currently I'm sure the issue has been researched.

Question: How much is LV basketball valued in your professional opinion?

With Holly as a coach, not a lot--sorry to say. Is there anyone out there that really believes we are going to be a contender with her as a coach? Since it's not likely anyone has the balls to fire her now we will suffer through another so-so season and hope they will finally come to their senses after next season.

 

[Rickster]

Great. Another thread starts out bashing Holly.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

I read an article that the Indiana University quoting the Wall street journal where a finance professor had valued college basketball teams Ky @ Louisville 340 and320 million.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/who-wins-the-ncaa-tournament-of-profit-margins-1490911465o

Somewhat less that the three figures billions of the NFL Cowboys.

When Pat was coaching she was the most noted person in the state and involved with the University and the LVs had a national presence. which translates into dollars -

A strong argument could be made about the importance of maintaining the LadyVols marketing brand from the standpoint of $$$. Given the sophistication of data mining currently I'm sure the issue has been researched.

Question: How much is LV basketball valued in your professional opinion?

It's hard (i.e. impossible) to determine the value on a stand-alone basis. If I were to guess, I'd say $50-$60MM would be about it. The brand lost a lot of its value with the retirement/passing of Pat and the subsequent downturn in the program. Even Apple trades at a much lower PE ratio now than they did prior to Steve Jobs passing and one could argue that Pat was more vital to day-to-day success of the Lady Vols than Jobs was to Apple.

 

[teacherdean]

I would love to have the Lady Vol team with their present talent and the incoming recruits. What coach would not want his team? Judging from the 2018 recruits that have listed Tennessee as their choice, this team has a bright future. Looking at their players, this facility and fan base, this team is as valuable as any WBB D-1 team in the top 4 of women's basketball. The key will be the ability to get top level production from the players and the ability to get each to play up to and beyound their potential.

 

[Smallvol#1]

Great. Another thread starts out bashing Holly.

Wish people could stay on topic. I think it is a very interesting question. However, few posters on the board will have the professional knowledge to provide an accurate answer. Hope the ones that can will do so.

 

[alexvol]

I would estimate about $ 50 million which about half of what it was in 2008.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Wish people could stay on topic. I think it is a very interesting question. However, few posters on the board will have the professional knowledge to provide an accurate answer. Hope the ones that can will do so.

The big name/big market NBA teams have valuations of 8-10x revenue. The smaller market teams are closer to 5x revenue. The bigger market teams have more of their revenue from higher profit margin sources (local media rights, etc.) than smaller market teams. Given that the Lady Vols revenue stream would align closer to small market teams (a majority of revenue from lower margin ticket sales), I'd think a valuation of 6-7x revenue may be appropriate.

If you look at a big brands in the NFL (such as Cowboys) where the revenue sharing is more equitable than NBA, their valuation is in the 6x range.

 

[lvocd]

I have often wondered if sales of Lady Vol gear/paraphernalia dropped after Pat passed away. I suspect the numbers have dropped sharply.

 

[Volstylexx]

Great. Another thread starts out bashing Holly.

It's not bashing when it's true.

Program has been significantly devalued after Pat stepped down. No final fours since 2008 doesn't help.

It simply isn't the program it used to be.

 

[LVJeff]

It's not bashing when it's true.

Program has been significantly devalued after Pat stepped down. No final fours since 2008 doesn't help.

It simply isn't the program it used to be.

It's at best off-topic

If someone asks you what time it is, how do you respond?

A-Reply you don't know
B-Reply with the time
C-Reply Holly is a bad coach

If it's C then you aren't contributing to the conversation so why respond?

 

[Volstylexx]

It's at best off-topic

If someone asks you what time it is, how do you respond?

A-Reply you don't know
B-Reply with the time
C-Reply Holly is a bad coach

If it's C then you aren't contributing to the conversation so why respond?

Holly is one piece of the puzzle that has significantly lowered the brand/value of TN lady vol basketball.

It starts with attendance:

2015-2016 10,412
2014-2015 10,375
2013-2014 9,916
2012-2013 11,390
2011-2012 14,414
2010-2011 12,599

From Pat's last year to Holly's first there was a 3,024 person drop. That's significant. 21% decline. That effects revenue numbers in ticket sales, parking, concessions, etc. TN Lady Vols from 2000-2012 were one of few, and some years, the ONLY profitable women's basketball team in the country. That's incredible.

Now, many people could have came in 2012 thinking it was Pat's last year, so lets look at the years ahead as a more "fair" assessment.

There is still a 17% decline from Pat's days to Holly's in attendance, which relates directly to revenue. TN Lady Vol Basketball as a result now operates in the red. They're not profitable.

That's why so many fans scream if you want to see a real change happen, then you have to hit them where it hurts - attendance.

The Lady Vol brand remains one of the top 2 most recognized in women's sports - but it retains no where near the value it did with Coach Summit. The greater risk is that other programs have caught us in recent years. Notre Dame, Maryland, Louisville, South Carolina. As those teams maintain success - and TN continues to fall, the brand and the subsequent rebuilding of the program will suffer.

It's just like UT football. Every kid growing up in the 90's early 2000's knew UT football. Now, you have kids in TN who wear Alabama gear and Florida gear bc the brand TN doesn't mean anything to them. They don't know the days when TN dominated everyone. They grow up playing the sport and want to attend a school they know and have seen succeed.

I'm afraid that's what's happening here with the Lady Vols. A 5 year old girl at the time of our last final 4 is now 13 years old and hasn't seen TN on the grandest of stages. She has seen UConn... Notre Dame... South Carolina...

And that's why top recruits are going there.... How many more years of being insignificant can we afford until it's simply too late to stop the decline. Does anyone think if Dangerfield was in the recruiting class of 08 or 09, that she'd be at Uconn?

Fans think it can't happen. "WE ARE TN" they scream! Old Dominion and La Tech say you might want to check history before we become so confident.

 

[PineyBluff Vol]

Good points Volstylexx!

 

[dillyo51]

A hill of beans? :unsure:

 

[AllforTenn]

"I'm afraid that's what's happening here with the Lady Vols. A 5 year old girl at the time of our last final 4 is now 13 years old and hasn't seen TN on the grandest of stages. She has seen UConn... Notre Dame... South Carolina...

And that's why top recruits are going there.... How many more years of being insignificant can we afford until it's simply too late to stop the decline. Does anyone think if Dangerfield was in the recruiting class of 08 or 09, that she'd be at Uconn?"

So the sky has fallen? The class signed this year happens to be ranked where?

 

[Vols4life]

"I'm afraid that's what's happening here with the Lady Vols. A 5 year old girl at the time of our last final 4 is now 13 years old and hasn't seen TN on the grandest of stages. She has seen UConn... Notre Dame... South Carolina...

And that's why top recruits are going there.... How many more years of being insignificant can we afford until it's simply too late to stop the decline. Does anyone think if Dangerfield was in the recruiting class of 08 or 09, that she'd be at Uconn?"

So the sky has fallen? The class signed this year happens to be ranked where?

Fulmer signed a top ranked class he was still fired...if you don't do anything with the class you signed you can still be fired

 

[Chitownvol1129]

Holly is one piece of the puzzle that has significantly lowered the brand/value of TN lady vol basketball.

It starts with attendance:

2015-2016 10,412
2014-2015 10,375
2013-2014 9,916
2012-2013 11,390
2011-2012 14,414
2010-2011 12,599

From Pat's last year to Holly's first there was a 3,024 person drop. That's significant. 21% decline. That effects revenue numbers in ticket sales, parking, concessions, etc. TN Lady Vols from 2000-2012 were one of few, and some years, the ONLY profitable women's basketball team in the country. That's incredible.

Now, many people could have came in 2012 thinking it was Pat's last year, so lets look at the years ahead as a more "fair" assessment.

There is still a 17% decline from Pat's days to Holly's in attendance, which relates directly to revenue. TN Lady Vol Basketball as a result now operates in the red. They're not profitable.

That's why so many fans scream if you want to see a real change happen, then you have to hit them where it hurts - attendance.

The Lady Vol brand remains one of the top 2 most recognized in women's sports - but it retains no where near the value it did with Coach Summit. The greater risk is that other programs have caught us in recent years. Notre Dame, Maryland, Louisville, South Carolina. As those teams maintain success - and TN continues to fall, the brand and the subsequent rebuilding of the program will suffer.

It's just like UT football. Every kid growing up in the 90's early 2000's knew UT football. Now, you have kids in TN who wear Alabama gear and Florida gear bc the brand TN doesn't mean anything to them. They don't know the days when TN dominated everyone. They grow up playing the sport and want to attend a school they know and have seen succeed.

I'm afraid that's what's happening here with the Lady Vols. A 5 year old girl at the time of our last final 4 is now 13 years old and hasn't seen TN on the grandest of stages. She has seen UConn... Notre Dame... South Carolina...

And that's why top recruits are going there.... How many more years of being insignificant can we afford until it's simply too late to stop the decline. Does anyone think if Dangerfield was in the recruiting class of 08 or 09, that she'd be at Uconn?

Fans think it can't happen. "WE ARE TN" they scream! Old Dominion and La Tech say you might want to check history before we become so confident.

This is an insulting omission of Holly as a player (first retired Tennessee Basketball jersey man or woman), and assistant coach (all 8 championships and most final 4s)

 

[1CHATTVOL]

Holly is one piece of the puzzle that has significantly lowered the brand/value of TN lady vol basketball.

You said a lot of things that may have been factual and drew IMO questionable conclusions. If you just don't like Holly, say so and save yourself some typing.

Attendance is down all across women's basketball. UConn has won 4 straight Nattys - attendance down. Even SC was down 2000 this year, and they win as well as giving tickets away for nearly free. So, you could blame TV coverage for people staying home, but I don't think it's Holly.

You mentioned that recruits haven't seen TN do well, so they're going elsewhere. Well, TN hasn't done your version of well (F4?) since 2008. That's Pat's fault. How dare she devalue her brand like that! Lol.

Oh, and I guess those top recruits that have been signing with TN under Holly, haven't been privy to your analysis of TN's decline.

You also mentioned how the program is no longer profitable. Not sure how you could get that information, since I don't believe separate sport profitability is public information. But I would offer that Holly's salary is roughly $600,000 less than Pat's. And ticket prices have increased. So, I'd say she's probably covered to lose some seats.

I don't see that our brand worth is that much lower in financial value beyond the results of applying formulas to revenue.

And really, what is the point? It's not like we're going to sell it.

While our wins are down the past two years from what we'd like, we also did some very good things. The sky is not falling.

 

[PointGuard]

A hill of beans? :unsure:

Perfect answer! LOL Value, unlike beauty, is not tied to the eye of the beholder. It is tied to net asset values and the capacity to earn profit (simplistically, the excess of revenue over expnses) . Few wcbb programs earn profit. As a frame of comparison, a business that doesn't earn sufficient profit to be able to pay for it's net asset value is a business that should be liquidated. Most of the 341 DIV I teams, absent Title IX mandate would not exist on their economic merits if they were an independent business

 

[Smallvol#1]

I have often wondered if sales of Lady Vol gear/paraphernalia dropped after Pat passed away. I suspect the numbers have dropped sharply.

Have you seen what UT sells as 'Lady Vol' gear? Flat out ugly. If you want anything half way good looking, you have to go to Orange Mountain Design for it. And, jmp, if it has Nike on it, I don't buy it. (taking very good care of my current football gear.)

Edit: Drat! Are we off topic or what? Sorry, OP.

 

[Volstylexx]

Holly is one piece of the puzzle that has significantly lowered the brand/value of TN lady vol basketball.

You said a lot of things that may have been factual and drew IMO questionable conclusions. If you just don't like Holly, say so and save yourself some typing.

Attendance is down all across women's basketball. UConn has won 4 straight Nattys - attendance down. Even SC was down 2000 this year, and they win as well as giving tickets away for nearly free. So, you could blame TV coverage for people staying home, but I don't think it's Holly.

You mentioned that recruits haven't seen TN do well, so they're going elsewhere. Well, TN hasn't done your version of well (F4?) since 2008. That's Pat's fault. How dare she devalue her brand like that! Lol.

Oh, and I guess those top recruits that have been signing with TN under Holly, haven't been privy to your analysis of TN's decline.

You also mentioned how the program is no longer profitable. Not sure how you could get that information, since I don't believe separate sport profitability is public information. But I would offer that Holly's salary is roughly $600,000 less than Pat's. And ticket prices have increased. So, I'd say she's probably covered to lose some seats.

I don't see that our brand worth is that much lower in financial value beyond the results of applying formulas to revenue.

And really, what is the point? It's not like we're going to sell it.

While our wins are down the past two years from what we'd like, we also did some very good things. The sky is not falling.

I didn't attack Holly in my post. I simply provided factual numbers and made some logical conclusions.

I could take the time to repute most of the things you argue.. but once i read "The sky is not falling" I realized it wasn't worth it.

The sky is falling. If Lady Vol fans don't see that after another 12-14 loss season next year... the only thing we will have left is the proud history that Pat built.

 

[Volstylexx]

This is an insulting omission of Holly as a player (first retired Tennessee Basketball jersey man or woman), and assistant coach (all 8 championships and most final 4s)

It wasn't a post about Holly. You might notice it started by saying Holly was one part of the problem.

No doubt Holly loves UT. She deserves credit for her success as a player and assistant coach. Her loyalty was and remains admirable, but none of that makes her a good coach. Remove the UT connection, and she would have been fired this year.

"Sometimes the greatest act of love is to walk away, so that the other person can find their true self and direction again" - author unknown

 

[livefaith]

Quick. Someone do an Open Records Request. UTAD has files on this in great detail somewhere I'm sure. I'll be right here supporting whoever does the work and invests there capital to find out. :victory:

 

[stllvf]

The value in $$ is in what sales products and tickets. The Cowboys sell merchandise. Some long retired men's basketball player has his name on shoes - result billions. Conn has had success in both basketball sports and wonder how that has translated product sales across the Nation?

the LVs in Pats' era had a product for young girls and women in the infancy of women's basketball. A face for the product and LadyVols as a name.

UConn has had unsurpassed success but the face (coach) has not the same positive impact as Pat's stare (smile). Baylor similar,

Indiana has not had another face since Knight but when the opening for a coach was announced the expectation was a top five job nationally.

good discussion

 

[Volfan2012]

Whatever it was I think the price just went way up with Mercedes and Diamond returning. This is the ultimatum season for Holly a final four is the least accomplishment acceptable.
A lot more excitement about next season we have a tremendously talented team to put on the floor no reason they shouldn't win big.