I guess its the "Mercedes" (Not Russell)

[mlindsay]

I am trying to find a silver lining in this season and wonder how we could right the ship. Thinking of ways to right the ship had me questioning, where did we go wrong?

I think we went wrong the moment Diamond decided to come to Tennessee. It is no fault of Diamond's but more so on Holly's part. Holly has used Diamond's name to her advantage and when Diamond status outgrew Holly status Holly had to put a stop to it and her trying to do so has cause us many first this year and not making the tournament might be one of them.

Here are a list of things Holly used Diamond for;
1.) To coach on the Olympic team-Does Holly truly get a shot over other coaches to assist on the team that won Gold this summer if she didn't have the Freshman of the Year 2 seasons removed accompanying her (Alongside Mercedes Russell)

2.) Te'a Cooper-Te'a could have pretty much gone anywhere and decided to come to Tennessee because this is where Diamond went (Te'a was going to go wherever Diamond went because they are best friends).

3.) Other players initially looking here to transfer-Don't buy one bit that McVunga and Gray (transfers from UNC) didn't want to continue to play with Diamond both players took visits here and decided to play elsewhere. People assumed it was Diamond and them not wanting to play with her but could it have been that they sat down and talked to Holly alone about Basketball and she just didn't stimulate there passion for basketball. Based on the talent we had and what they did at UNC in the first season do you really think they wouldn't have chosen to come here with Diamond here and our other "talent" (even the Davis family looked to come here and her and Diamond had issue in the Past)

4.) A higher rating in the beginning of the year-We started the season ranked in the top 5 after losing Izzy, Burdick, and Massingale. With no Diamond and No Te'a do you thin we start in the top 5? Maybe top 10, but definitely not the Top 5.


I think Holly started the season off wrong when she decided not to start her best players at the start of the season. In the first game she decided to start Dunbar over Diamond while she benched 3 other players (Graves, Reynolds, and Jones were suspended and Nared was injured) although Diamond may have been hurt not starting her was a mistake. She didn't start her in the absence of Reynolds (who she had suspended and Reynolds returns and starts right away) knowing Diamond and how outspoken she is, she probably said something about it.

It is clear to see that Holly shows favoritism. The same things Te'a and Diamond get benched for immediately (Turnovers, fouls, etc) Reynolds, Carter, and Russell are allowed to continue to play until they make several mistakes and players begin to see that. Also players begin to wonder how certain players who aren't performing well get a lot of minutes and players who are ride the bench.

Diamond and her entitlement is something her parents created and you can't fault her for that. You also can't fault her if she wants to win and the coach isn't putting the best team/players out there to win. Even when Diamond isn't playing she is up rooting on her teammates and etc. I don't see Holly doing the same.

Being Sarcastic I think it is the Mercedes (not Russell) that caused the rift between the DeSheild's and Holly. Maybe if Diamond's brother would have purchased a Mercedes for Holly (for winning her 100th game lol) we wouldn't be where we are. It's clear that Holly has some issue with Diamond that the other players (who may have once had realized how talented she is and wants to win) no longer have and she is allowing those issues to hurt the rest of the team/season.


It's inexcusable to still be starting Carter at the PG spot when she is averaging less than 2 assist per game. It is inexcusable for your team's leading scorer to not be starting when your team struggles to score (Name a team who's leading scorer/star doesn't start?) It is inexcusable for the team's best 3 PT shooter to average less than 5 minutes a game when most of the teams you play zone you up. I can go on and on.

Feel free to chime in!

 

[bobkitten]

How did Carter do LAST year on assists? What all changed?

While she makes mistakes, she is worlds more steady than some of the other players,who just fling the ball up there, charge into the lane, get lots of early PFs, and seem to think their job is to birth all the babies (shoot every time they touch the ball).

 

[Amb3096]

How did Carter do LAST year on assists? What all changed?

While she makes mistakes, she is worlds more steady than some of the other players,who just fling the ball up there, charge into the lane, get lots of early PFs, and seem to think their job is to birth all the babies (shoot every time they touch the ball).

The difference is that Carter will never do anything to help the team win. She is steady because she largely doesn't do anything to impact the game, positive or negative.

With Diamond, you get the chance that she will score.

 

[NoBackBoard]

Listen carefully:

1. The team has no offense. Duh. Holly has not instituted an offensive system that allows players to develop.

2. We have the worst guards in the league. The dribble while looking down, have no vision, can't shoot, can't pass and are mediocre defenders. None of our guards can run an offense.

3. Holly has no clue what starting 5 is most effective. Graves and Russell on the floor together should be an asset but it's a liability. It clogs the paint because neither can pass, cut or make 15-footers consistently.

4. Holly can not motivate.

5. It's not DD! She is one of the few players willing to shoot. I say this all the time: the offense isn't better with DD on the bench. There's still standing and no cutting.

The team struggles because Holly and staff can not coach offense and are not developing players.

Players will transfer and Holly will resign. It will happen. Everything is following its course. This season is over.

 

[armchair]

WHO Should be starting at PG? Cooper? Who apparently cost us any chance to win the game last night by taking two bad shots after we'd cut the lead to three? Reynolds, IMO, should be the PG--she easily has the highest assist/turnover ratio among our guards. Carter is not a good PG but she is our best perimeter defender. Also, while Carter doesn't do a lot to help us win games--she doesn't cause us to lose games either. Our assist totals are bad because of our system--our assist totals have been terrible for 20 years--and because nobody on this team can score.

As for DD, do you think HW WANTS to sit DD for half of games, lose games and lose her job? I'm sure she'd Love for DD to play 35 minutes a game and score 22 point. We'd be winning. She's been abysmal--and we're losing. Can you keep playing somebody who's 0-7, 2-12, 5-15 with lots of turnovers? Players get benched for poor play constantly. In this case there might be more going on. People can ascribe blame as they wish, but when your body language is bad from your first game, then there might be an issue with the player.

 

[bobkitten]

The difference is that Carter will never do anything to help the team win. She is steady because she largely doesn't do anything to impact the game, positive or negative.

With Diamond, you get the chance that she will score.

Draya 50% (2/4?)shooting last night
Diamond--0 for7?

Sometimes, not hurting the team HELPS.

 

[MDVolFan14]

I am trying to find a silver lining in this season and wonder how we could right the ship. Thinking of ways to right the ship had me questioning, where did we go wrong?

I think we went wrong the moment Diamond decided to come to Tennessee. It is no fault of Diamond's but more so on Holly's part. Holly has used Diamond's name to her advantage and when Diamond status outgrew Holly status Holly had to put a stop to it and her trying to do so has cause us many first this year and not making the tournament might be one of them.

Here are a list of things Holly used Diamond for;
1.) To coach on the Olympic team-Does Holly truly get a shot over other coaches to assist on the team that won Gold this summer if she didn't have the Freshman of the Year 2 seasons removed accompanying her (Alongside Mercedes Russell)

2.) Te'a Cooper-Te'a could have pretty much gone anywhere and decided to come to Tennessee because this is where Diamond went (Te'a was going to go wherever Diamond went because they are best friends).

3.) Other players initially looking here to transfer-Don't buy one bit that McVunga and Gray (transfers from UNC) didn't want to continue to play with Diamond both players took visits here and decided to play elsewhere. People assumed it was Diamond and them not wanting to play with her but could it have been that they sat down and talked to Holly alone about Basketball and she just didn't stimulate there passion for basketball. Based on the talent we had and what they did at UNC in the first season do you really think they wouldn't have chosen to come here with Diamond here and our other "talent" (even the Davis family looked to come here and her and Diamond had issue in the Past)

4.) A higher rating in the beginning of the year-We started the season ranked in the top 5 after losing Izzy, Burdick, and Massingale. With no Diamond and No Te'a do you thin we start in the top 5? Maybe top 10, but definitely not the Top 5.


I think Holly started the season off wrong when she decided not to start her best players at the start of the season. In the first game she decided to start Dunbar over Diamond while she benched 3 other players (Graves, Reynolds, and Jones were suspended and Nared was injured) although Diamond may have been hurt not starting her was a mistake. She didn't start her in the absence of Reynolds (who she had suspended and Reynolds returns and starts right away) knowing Diamond and how outspoken she is, she probably said something about it.

It is clear to see that Holly shows favoritism. The same things Te'a and Diamond get benched for immediately (Turnovers, fouls, etc) Reynolds, Carter, and Russell are allowed to continue to play until they make several mistakes and players begin to see that. Also players begin to wonder how certain players who aren't performing well get a lot of minutes and players who are ride the bench.

Diamond and her entitlement is something her parents created and you can't fault her for that. You also can't fault her if she wants to win and the coach isn't putting the best team/players out there to win. Even when Diamond isn't playing she is up rooting on her teammates and etc. I don't see Holly doing the same.

Being Sarcastic I think it is the Mercedes (not Russell) that caused the rift between the DeSheild's and Holly. Maybe if Diamond's brother would have purchased a Mercedes for Holly (for winning her 100th game lol) we wouldn't be where we are. It's clear that Holly has some issue with Diamond that the other players (who may have once had realized how talented she is and wants to win) no longer have and she is allowing those issues to hurt the rest of the team/season.


It's inexcusable to still be starting Carter at the PG spot when she is averaging less than 2 assist per game. It is inexcusable for your team's leading scorer to not be starting when your team struggles to score (Name a team who's leading scorer/star doesn't start?) It is inexcusable for the team's best 3 PT shooter to average less than 5 minutes a game when most of the teams you play zone you up. I can go on and on.

Feel free to chime in!

Wow! You said a mouthful... Interesting take.....

It is obvious that Diamond's status was used here and I can see where that could cause a rift with not just HW but also the players too. Everywhere you look outside of Knoxville, all you see is Diamond. Press releases, ESPN's streaming of their game had Diamond and an Alabama player as the featured players in the link. I can see where that, if not managed right, can cause the other girls issues. Think about if you played hard for a team for two years or more and suddenly a new kid comes on the block getting all the shine (deserved IMO) like your hard work didn't matter. I don't think Diamond is acting like she is the big dog but that the coaches are probably treating her like that. Probably made her captain and she really hasn't done anything to be a captain in the past year and some change. She had a phenomenal freshman season then transferred, sat a whole year and probably wasn't allowed to participate in a lot of team stuff which meant no coaching "live" and then when she comes back, all of this is thrust her way by the coaches.

The whole night, when the cameras panned to the bench, a large majority of their shots were of Diamond sitting. Catching facial expressions and body language. And in most, if not all, of those shots, you don't see one coach coaching her up. Talking to her and pointing to the floor or giving instructions on a clipboard.

As far as the entitlement part, I don't know if that is really an issue because its not like her parents are Diddy, or Snoop Dogg or a Kardashian or whatever that is hovering and flashing a lot of bling and excess. Her brother is a professional athlete with his own money and free to do what he wants to do with it. And I'm sure that he bought her that car out of nothing but love and I'm sure he probably bought his younger brother a car too.

You may be on to something about Gray and Mavunga not coming and maybe it was something they heard or seen. And speaking of them and UNC, Diamond had 122 turnovers at UNC. But she started and played in more games, took more shots, got more rebounds, scored more points, had more assists, etc. To UNC's credit, they didn't stifle that team with a stagnant and predictable offense and let those talented freshman play. Resulted in better record than this team and a trip to the Sweet 16.

Interesting take nonetheless.

 

[SGMVols]

^ That UNC team actually made the Elite Eight. Upset South Carolina in the Sweet 16.

 

[mlindsay]

WHO Should be starting at PG? Cooper? Who apparently cost us any chance to win the game last night by taking two bad shots after we'd cut the lead to three? Reynolds, IMO, should be the PG--she easily has the highest assist/turnover ratio among our guards. Carter is not a good PG but she is our best perimeter defender. Also, while Carter doesn't do a lot to help us win games--she doesn't cause us to lose games either. Our assist totals are bad because of our system--our assist totals have been terrible for 20 years--and because nobody on this team can score.

As for DD, do you think HW WANTS to sit DD for half of games, lose games and lose her job? I'm sure she'd Love for DD to play 35 minutes a game and score 22 point. We'd be winning. She's been abysmal--and we're losing. Can you keep playing somebody who's 0-7, 2-12, 5-15 with lots of turnovers? Players get benched for poor play constantly. In this case there might be more going on. People can ascribe blame as they wish, but when your body language is bad from your first game, then there might be an issue with the player.

Your hate for Diamond is so apparent! Diamond is at least attempting to score! Many of the other players (Reynolds, Carter, Middleton at times) refuses to shoot! Diamond has to get into the flow of the game and is never allowed to because the moment she makes 1 mistake Holly is sending someone into the game to replace her (Te'a gets the same treatment) but Reynolds and Carter can make the same exact mistake and be given 4 or 5 chances before they are pulled.

I think cooper should and could be our starting PG she is just a score first PG so turnovers are more likely to occur. I can't have my starting PG's refusing to score. That is the reason SC will not beat ND or Uconn in the tournament because their starting PG doesn't scare anyone offensively. Knowing that Carter and Reynolds wont score it allows you to pack the paint and prevent the bigs from being Dominant where as the Lindsey Allen at ND (and the other PG they signed this year) along with Jefferson (and Chong when she does play) are looking to score so you can't double team Turner or Stewie.

Reynolds has proven to give us more when she is playing on the wing/slashing. We don't need her standing around.

 

[mlindsay]

Draya 50% (2/4?)shooting last night
Diamond--0 for7?

Sometimes, not hurting the team HELPS.

Carter only takes 4 shots at most a game and that hurts the team you wont beat the UConn's or ND's with your starting PG not putting pressure on the other teams PG's offensively if they know she isn't a threat they can focus their attention elsewhere.

 

[MDVolFan14]

WHO Should be starting at PG? Cooper? Who apparently cost us any chance to win the game last night by taking two bad shots after we'd cut the lead to three? Reynolds, IMO, should be the PG--she easily has the highest assist/turnover ratio among our guards. Carter is not a good PG but she is our best perimeter defender. Also, while Carter doesn't do a lot to help us win games--she doesn't cause us to lose games either. Our assist totals are bad because of our system--our assist totals have been terrible for 20 years--and because nobody on this team can score.

As for DD, do you think HW WANTS to sit DD for half of games, lose games and lose her job? I'm sure she'd Love for DD to play 35 minutes a game and score 22 point. We'd be winning. She's been abysmal--and we're losing. Can you keep playing somebody who's 0-7, 2-12, 5-15 with lots of turnovers? Players get benched for poor play constantly. In this case there might be more going on. People can ascribe blame as they wish, but when your body language is bad from your first game, then there might be an issue with the player.

While I agree with your assessment of the PG situation, though I think that Cooper still needs to play to get the experience and is the best penetrator the team has.

But I don't agree with the DD assessment. I went and looked up her stats from UNC:

GP-GS - 36-32
Minutes - 27.9
FGs - 248-582
FG PCT. - .426
3-FGs - 48-172
3-FG % - .279
FTs - 104-134
FT % - .77
Reb. - 41-153
RPG - 5.4
Assist - 92
TO - 122
BLK - 10
Stl - 61
Pts - 648
PPG - 18.0

Now compared to her pretty bad numbers here, your point seems valid. But here's where I disagree with you....

You can shoot all day long in practice and can simulate all day in practice. Shooters need a rhythm. DD turned the ball over at UNC too at a high rate but she wasn't immediately benched for it. You could clearly see favoritism or whatever you want to call it last night. DD throws a pass to Russell in the middle on the break and it results in a turnover, pulled. I watched a few UNC games in her freshman year and I've seen that pass happen before with Mavunga and she turned and caught it. Mavunga, as a freshman was pretty good at establishing post position especially on the break. Don't know who taught her that but anyway. Then DD get's beat on a backdoor, again pulled.

In comes Carter.... She throws away a lob. Then she gets beat on an inbound play under the Bama basket. But she remains in the game. Hmmm.... Reynolds, turns the ball over in one play. Remains in the game. So a young player whether it be DD or anybody is supposed to just suck that up and keep it moving? One other thing that was pointed out by the announcers last night. On Te'a's turnover when trying to get the ball to Russell down low on the right-side, she said that Te'a should have taken two more dribbles right to get better line of sight on that pass. That is something that is a teachable moment for a young PG that coaching will fix. But again, these kids are trying to force the ball down to Russell because this is the offense they are being told to run.

Going back to her stats.... Look at the volume of playing time compared to now. No wonder she and everybody else is looking so bad. HW has a short hook. How is any player except maybe Steph Curry able to get a rhythm in an offense that has it's players stagnant around the perimeter and is bent on forcing the ball down load to a player that is not ready yet to be that dominate force down low. How are any of these players able to get any rhythm? And the turnovers come from them being told to get it down low to a player the we hope will learn how to use her size to advantage and strengthen her core over the summer so she immoveable on the block and is an easier target because she gets a good seal on the defender.

All of these players, not just DD, needs a coach that will challenge them, teach them and not just yank them out of games, and knows x's and o's. That's not happening here and that's why the record and play speaks for itself. Losses to teams that either have never beat you or have not beaten you in 40-50 games. If nobody in Hart's office including himself doesn't see this as a problem, then Lady Vols BB is done.....

 

[Amb3096]

WHO Should be starting at PG? Cooper? Who apparently cost us any chance to win the game last night by taking two bad shots after we'd cut the lead to three? Reynolds, IMO, should be the PG--she easily has the highest assist/turnover ratio among our guards. Carter is not a good PG but she is our best perimeter defender. Also, while Carter doesn't do a lot to help us win games--she doesn't cause us to lose games either. Our assist totals are bad because of our system--our assist totals have been terrible for 20 years--and because nobody on this team can score.

As for DD, do you think HW WANTS to sit DD for half of games, lose games and lose her job? I'm sure she'd Love for DD to play 35 minutes a game and score 22 point. We'd be winning. She's been abysmal--and we're losing. Can you keep playing somebody who's 0-7, 2-12, 5-15 with lots of turnovers? Players get benched for poor play constantly. In this case there might be more going on. People can ascribe blame as they wish, but when your body language is bad from your first game, then there might be an issue with the player.

I find it interesting that you can state that Te'a cost Tennessee a chance to win with those two bad shots. At least she took them. If Andraya was in the position, she would have dribbled the shot clock away. In those scenarios, Te'a had the momentum and was looking to get a foul call, but the refs pretty much let them play last night and she didn't get the call she was hoping for. Around that same time, Andraya got called for a charge during a critical possession that would have put more pressure on Bama. Just thought I'd point that out.

As for Andraya not doing anything to lose games and being the best defender, don't forget her back to back sequence in the LSU game of letting Rina Hill blow right by her for an easy layup to cut Tennessee's lead to one, then unnecessarily fouling the LSU player with 3 seconds in the game and sending her to the line to hit the game winning FTs. THAT is how you cost a team a game...not by taking and missing shots.

IMO, neither Cooper nor Carter should be playing much PG, if much at all. Sadly, you're probably right that Jordan is the best option (or least bad option) at PG, but I would experiment with Middleton there as well because she's more of a natural passer. Bring Cooper in if they are desperate for points or want to up the speed, but in a half court offense, it should be Reynolds or Middleton.

 

[SAMCROVIPER]

The difference is that Carter will never do anything to help the team win. She is steady because she largely doesn't do anything to impact the game, positive or negative.

With Diamond, you get the chance that she will score.

I agree. Carter takes less chances, therefore she has less turnovers than Diamond. Diamond takes more chances to attack the defensive, therefore, she will have more turnovers than anyone else on the team.

 

[Amb3096]

Draya 50% (2/4?)shooting last night
Diamond--0 for7?

Sometimes, not hurting the team HELPS.

The 3 TOs isn't what I would call "not hurting the team". Same with the sub par defense from The Defensive Specialist.

I guarantee you that Tennessee doesn't win many games when 4 points on 4 shots, 1 assist, and 3 TOs is considered a good effort.

 

[madtownvol]

I am trying to find a silver lining in this season and wonder how we could right the ship. Thinking of ways to right the ship had me questioning, where did we go wrong?

I think we went wrong the moment Diamond decided to come to Tennessee. It is no fault of Diamond's but more so on Holly's part. Holly has used Diamond's name to her advantage and when Diamond status outgrew Holly status Holly had to put a stop to it and her trying to do so has cause us many first this year and not making the tournament might be one of them.

Here are a list of things Holly used Diamond for;
1.) To coach on the Olympic team-Does Holly truly get a shot over other coaches to assist on the team that won Gold this summer if she didn't have the Freshman of the Year 2 seasons removed accompanying her (Alongside Mercedes Russell)

2.) Te'a Cooper-Te'a could have pretty much gone anywhere and decided to come to Tennessee because this is where Diamond went (Te'a was going to go wherever Diamond went because they are best friends).

3.) Other players initially looking here to transfer-Don't buy one bit that McVunga and Gray (transfers from UNC) didn't want to continue to play with Diamond both players took visits here and decided to play elsewhere. People assumed it was Diamond and them not wanting to play with her but could it have been that they sat down and talked to Holly alone about Basketball and she just didn't stimulate there passion for basketball. Based on the talent we had and what they did at UNC in the first season do you really think they wouldn't have chosen to come here with Diamond here and our other "talent" (even the Davis family looked to come here and her and Diamond had issue in the Past)

4.) A higher rating in the beginning of the year-We started the season ranked in the top 5 after losing Izzy, Burdick, and Massingale. With no Diamond and No Te'a do you thin we start in the top 5? Maybe top 10, but definitely not the Top 5.


I think Holly started the season off wrong when she decided not to start her best players at the start of the season. In the first game she decided to start Dunbar over Diamond while she benched 3 other players (Graves, Reynolds, and Jones were suspended and Nared was injured) although Diamond may have been hurt not starting her was a mistake. She didn't start her in the absence of Reynolds (who she had suspended and Reynolds returns and starts right away) knowing Diamond and how outspoken she is, she probably said something about it.

It is clear to see that Holly shows favoritism. The same things Te'a and Diamond get benched for immediately (Turnovers, fouls, etc) Reynolds, Carter, and Russell are allowed to continue to play until they make several mistakes and players begin to see that. Also players begin to wonder how certain players who aren't performing well get a lot of minutes and players who are ride the bench.

Diamond and her entitlement is something her parents created and you can't fault her for that. You also can't fault her if she wants to win and the coach isn't putting the best team/players out there to win. Even when Diamond isn't playing she is up rooting on her teammates and etc. I don't see Holly doing the same.

Being Sarcastic I think it is the Mercedes (not Russell) that caused the rift between the DeSheild's and Holly. Maybe if Diamond's brother would have purchased a Mercedes for Holly (for winning her 100th game lol) we wouldn't be where we are. It's clear that Holly has some issue with Diamond that the other players (who may have once had realized how talented she is and wants to win) no longer have and she is allowing those issues to hurt the rest of the team/season.


It's inexcusable to still be starting Carter at the PG spot when she is averaging less than 2 assist per game. It is inexcusable for your team's leading scorer to not be starting when your team struggles to score (Name a team who's leading scorer/star doesn't start?) It is inexcusable for the team's best 3 PT shooter to average less than 5 minutes a game when most of the teams you play zone you up. I can go on and on.

Feel free to chime in!

Way too analytic. The idea that this teams problems hinge on a few key incidents misses the point. The big issue is that this is the first team that 100% Holly's; last year, the last vestiges of the old guard -- Burdick and Massengale made plays and provided leadership.

This group is like a ship rudderless at sea. If you had put this same set of players (including Diamond) in the system at Notre Dame, Maryland, South Carolina, Texas A&M (all programs with quality coaches), we have an entirely different scenario and likely a contender for an NC.

I personally don't believe the "Diamond as cancer" narrative. But even if she has had a negative impact that would only be a sign that the LVs had a weak culture and no team leadership to begin with. [Example, even freakin' Randy Moss became a team player when he joined the New England patriots]. Teams are stronger than individuals and if not, you don't really have a team.

 

[bobkitten]

I agree. Carter takes less chances, therefore she has less turnovers than Diamond. Diamond takes more chances to attack the defensive, therefore, she will have more turnovers than anyone else on the team.

When DD starts messing up, if she stays in she gets more and more out of control. Some of the others mess up, and then do better.

DD will have more turnovers than anyone else on the team, yet she plays 1/3 of the game as opposed to 5/6 of the game. You made my point.

 

[PRG]

Draya 50% (2/4?)shooting last night
Diamond--0 for7?

Sometimes, not hurting the team HELPS.

Andrea would not have shot at all if she had the choice to dribble longer or time to pass to someone else!

 

[btate]

Draya 50% (2/4?)shooting last night
Diamond--0 for7?

Sometimes, not hurting the team HELPS.

Carter was better last year. She seemed always be in the right spot time after time and was always doing the small things such as tip a ball one way or another to our team. There's your measure of Holly and new team members. The chemistry is simply not there. Holly should have been able to mold this team. I assure you Geno would have molded this team. the sad part HOLLY does not realize she is not head coach material. Holly has over emphasized for the guards to get the ball inside. This has lead to the guards to never think shoot when they get a clear shot, they pass it and turn it over.

 

[Amb3096]

Carter was better last year. She seemed always be in the right spot time after time and was always doing the small things such as tip a ball one way or another to our team.

She was better 2 years ago when Massengale was hurt. She was just as bad last year, but had Massengale to cover the deficiencies of the backcourt with her scoring threat.

She is at her best when she doesn't have to think...just react. Go after the rebound and get the putback, get the steal, dive after a loose ball, etc... When she has to plan, she falls apart. That was evident in the Maryland S16 loss 2 years ago, and has been her MO ever since.

 

[Nute Gunray]

While I agree with your assessment of the PG situation, though I think that Cooper still needs to play to get the experience and is the best penetrator the team has.

But I don't agree with the DD assessment. I went and looked up her stats from UNC:

GP-GS - 36-32
Minutes - 27.9
FGs - 248-582
FG PCT. - .426
3-FGs - 48-172
3-FG % - .279
FTs - 104-134
FT % - .77
Reb. - 41-153
RPG - 5.4
Assist - 92
TO - 122
BLK - 10
Stl - 61
Pts - 648
PPG - 18.0

Now compared to her pretty bad numbers here, your point seems valid. But here's where I disagree with you....

You can shoot all day long in practice and can simulate all day in practice. Shooters need a rhythm. DD turned the ball over at UNC too at a high rate but she wasn't immediately benched for it. You could clearly see favoritism or whatever you want to call it last night. DD throws a pass to Russell in the middle on the break and it results in a turnover, pulled. I watched a few UNC games in her freshman year and I've seen that pass happen before with Mavunga and she turned and caught it. Mavunga, as a freshman was pretty good at establishing post position especially on the break. Don't know who taught her that but anyway. Then DD get's beat on a backdoor, again pulled.

In comes Carter.... She throws away a lob. Then she gets beat on an inbound play under the Bama basket. But she remains in the game. Hmmm.... Reynolds, turns the ball over in one play. Remains in the game. So a young player whether it be DD or anybody is supposed to just suck that up and keep it moving? One other thing that was pointed out by the announcers last night. On Te'a's turnover when trying to get the ball to Russell down low on the right-side, she said that Te'a should have taken two more dribbles right to get better line of sight on that pass. That is something that is a teachable moment for a young PG that coaching will fix. But again, these kids are trying to force the ball down to Russell because this is the offense they are being told to run.

Going back to her stats.... Look at the volume of playing time compared to now. No wonder she and everybody else is looking so bad. HW has a short hook. How is any player except maybe Steph Curry able to get a rhythm in an offense that has it's players stagnant around the perimeter and is bent on forcing the ball down load to a player that is not ready yet to be that dominate force down low. How are any of these players able to get any rhythm? And the turnovers come from them being told to get it down low to a player the we hope will learn how to use her size to advantage and strengthen her core over the summer so she immoveable on the block and is an easier target because she gets a good seal on the defender.

All of these players, not just DD, needs a coach that will challenge them, teach them and not just yank them out of games, and knows x's and o's. That's not happening here and that's why the record and play speaks for itself. Losses to teams that either have never beat you or have not beaten you in 40-50 games. If nobody in Hart's office including himself doesn't see this as a problem, then Lady Vols BB is done.....

You are right on! Holly insists on forcing her players to implement an in-out offensive scheme instead of implementing a scheme that fits the strength of her players. A good coach would not do this. However, I guess this has been stated a thousand times in this forum and proven by the 16-12 record.

 

[volbeast33]

^ That UNC team actually made the Elite Eight. Upset South Carolina in the Sweet 16.

Didn't a holly warlick coached Tenn team beat Deshields NC team by around fifty points

 

[Amb3096]

Didn't a holly warlick coached Tenn team beat Deshields NC team by around fifty points

It was 16 points. The year before was the 50 something game when Simmons went off on them.

You're not suggesting that Holly's a good coach because of that result, are you?

 

[Nute Gunray]

Way too analytic. The idea that this teams problems hinge on a few key incidents misses the point. The big issue is that this is the first team that 100% Holly's; last year, the last vestiges of the old guard -- Burdick and Massengale made plays and provided leadership.

This group is like a ship rudderless at sea. If you had put this same set of players (including Diamond) in the system at Notre Dame, Maryland, South Carolina, Texas A&M (all programs with quality coaches), we have an entirely different scenario and likely a contender for an NC.

I personally don't believe the "Diamond as cancer" narrative. But even if she has had a negative impact that would only be a sign that the LVs had a weak culture and no team leadership to begin with. [Example, even freakin' Randy Moss became a team player when he joined the New England patriots]. Teams are stronger than individuals and if not, you don't really have a team.

This a brilliant analysis, madtownvol. You hit the proverbial nail directly on the head!

 

[volbeast33]

It was 16 points. The year before was the 50 something game when Simmons went off on them.

You're not suggesting that Holly's a good coach because of that result, are you?

No more than people claiming deshields going to an elite eight means she is not part of the problem. I feel Holly needs to be replaced but refuse to bad mouth a true VFL.... My daughter went to the lady vols camp and deshields was very distant from the other players on the team.

 

[Amb3096]

No more than people claiming deshields going to an elite eight means she is not part of the problem. I feel Holly needs to be replaced but refuse to bad mouth a true VFL.... My daughter went to the lady vols camp and deshields was very distant from the other players on the team.

I think it's clear that Holly and Diamond are the proverbial oil and water. However, the poster who began this particular conversation was implying that Diamond was a common denominator in UNC's poor performance and Tennessee's poor performance. I simply pointed out that Diamond's freshman UNC team was pretty good, and overall had a very good season.

If I had to predict whether or not Tennessee would right the ship and become a national contender more if Diamond left or Holly left, I would overwhelmingly say Holly. She can't coach.