I love Basketball, I hate Basketball

[Good2bavol]

I have always loved the game of basketball. I enjoyed playing as a youth. But I also hate basketball because officiating plays too much a role in the game. Yes, the game tonight has me upset, but this is not a "they called against us" post. My issue is that basket's officiating by-in-large is SOOO inconsistent. Now look, when my kids played, I officiated some games and I hated doing it because you are never correct for one team or the other. But when I see a guy get mugged and no call, and then a touch on the shoulder that did not affect the player at all get called like I saw tonight, it is very frustrating.

Mizzou is a good team and they hit the shots to win, but I have to say, if they played with a Big 12 officiating crew with the style they played tonight, they would not have a player to finish the game. TN would probably have more calls as well.

Anyway, I vented..... thank you!

 

[NighthawkVol]

Yep. It’s why basketball will never rank as high as football or baseball for me. The game is far too subjective.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a Vol fan in every sport and follow basketball closely. But it’s the least “just” of the major sports.

 

[Clad in Big Orange]

Mizzou won with offense, defense, in the paint and on the perimeter. Vols are just too limited unfortunately.

 

[Good2bavol]

Mizzou won with offense, defense, in the paint and on the perimeter. Vols are just too limited unfortunately.

Yep.... losing ZZ is glaring

 

[GiveHim6InSC]

The theme for this season, for me anyway, is how many times officials make it about themselves- the reviews, swallowing the whistle vs calling every single thing, etc . They can make a game go a certain way, and they can carry out a vendetta subtly against a coach or a team.
I’m not making excuses for the Vols recent losses, but I firmly believe people talk and the officials have too much influence and not enough accountability. By the time anybody gets around to holding them accountable for egregious no-calls, inconsistent calls, etc, the damage is already done.
When JJJ and SV went out today for foul trouble, it caught up to Tennessee, as they didn’t have a viable option with ZZ out. Works that way sometimes.
Hopefully, they’ll get consistently impartial officiating and will have a solid plan going forward in the NCAAT

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

Are you watching the Vandy - Kentucky game? Oscar goes over the back on literally every offensive board… never gets called

 

[VOLtaism]

The refs have let the game get too physical and now don't know where to draw the line. 3 guys bang in the air on a shot under the goal and it's a no-call, crazy. Walking, palming, 3 seconds are ignored. Its a full-contact sport and impossible to referee.

 

[TartanTurff]

Barnes cannot assemble a complete team, we continually have deficiencies each season with a position, historically he has not been able to assemble a top shelf front line, the expected impact players seldom make an impact on the front line, this year it was a struggle at the point guard to replace Kennedy Chandler, the
Knoxville kid isn't ready for whatever reason, the go to person for scoring is not there, offensive point production has been shakey against the better teams and embarrassing on the road. Hopefully there will be no more long term projects on the floor, opting to recruit and sign players with competitive competitive experience that can make an impact in year two not year four or five.

The early exits in tournament play, except for the tourney win last year, are well documented, perhaps the man defensive scheme is conquerable as the season wears on, the inconsistency is occasioned by weaknesses in the lineup that should be correctable now.

 

[Good2bavol]

Barnes cannot assemble a complete team, we continually have deficiencies each season with a position, historically he has not been able to assemble a top shelf front line, the expected impact players seldom make an impact on the front line, this year it was a struggle at the point guard to replace Kennedy Chandler, the
Knoxville kid isn't ready for whatever reason, the go to person for scoring is not there, offensive point production has been shakey against the better teams and embarrassing on the road. Hopefully there will be no more long term projects on the floor, opting to recruit and sign players with competitive competitive experience that can make an impact in year two not year four or five.

The early exits in tournament play, except for the tourney win last year, are well documented, perhaps the man defensive scheme is conquerable as the season wears on, the inconsistency is occasioned by weaknesses in the lineup that should be correctable now.

Agreed.... let's get Cuonzo Martin back

 

[Special Ed]

All I can say is Rick Pitino seems to be looking for greener pastures.

 

[VOLfrombama]

All I can say is Rick Pitino seems to be looking for greener pastures.

That’s not all he’s looking for

 

[sechamp2012]

Mizzou won with offense, defense, in the paint and on the perimeter. Vols are just too limited unfortunately.

On a bunch of sets Brown and the MZ Bigs would just set up in the lane . I can’t remember when they did away with the 3 second call essentially but I think it correlates with the 3 pointer coming in the late 1980s. They’ve basically nuanced it out ergo it has became a boxing match in the lane. MZ was definitely the aggressor and we hit the same % wise in 3s they just got some easy transition 2s was the difference that an MZ made us work our Azz off for every point.

 

[TartanTurff]

Agreed.... let's get Cuonzo Martin back

The Barnes apologists really need to find another talking point besides pointing to the history of bargain bin hires that polluted the program for decades. Barnes teams struggle in the post season, it's not an indictment or call for his replacement, but a predictable pattern that won't change without better teachers on the bench and more proven talent levels brought in on the front end, particularly on the front line.

The disappointment in this season is obvious, the reference to other terrible Tennessee coaches does not excuse or justify the piss poor performances which plagued the program this season, a program which had characteristics of a terrific season, but couldn't avoid the wholesale breakdowns along the way.

 

[NighthawkVol]

The Barnes apologists really need to find another talking point besides pointing to the history of bargain bin hires that polluted the program for decades. Barnes teams struggle in the post season, it's not an indictment or call for his replacement, but a predictable pattern that won't change without better teachers on the bench and more proven talent levels brought in on the front end, particularly on the front line.

The disappointment in this season is obvious, the reference to other terrible Tennessee coaches does not excuse or justify the piss poor performances which plagued the program this season, a program which had characteristics of a terrific season, but couldn't avoid the wholesale breakdowns along the way.

Serious question…not meant to be argumentative: say Barnes retires after this season. Who we hiring?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

The Barnes apologists really need to find another talking point besides pointing to the history of bargain bin hires that polluted the program for decades. Barnes teams struggle in the post season, it's not an indictment or call for his replacement, but a predictable pattern that won't change without better teachers on the bench and more proven talent levels brought in on the front end, particularly on the front line.

The disappointment in this season is obvious, the reference to other terrible Tennessee coaches does not excuse or justify the piss poor performances which plagued the program this season, a program which had characteristics of a terrific season, but couldn't avoid the wholesale breakdowns along the way.

CRB’s post season is better than the history of TN’s post season.

Wholesale breakdowns? Injuries to the best players don’t count for anything?

 

[CAVPUT]

Barnes cannot assemble a complete team, we continually have deficiencies each season with a position, historically he has not been able to assemble a top shelf front line, the expected impact players seldom make an impact on the front line, this year it was a struggle at the point guard to replace Kennedy Chandler, the
Knoxville kid isn't ready for whatever reason, the go to person for scoring is not there, offensive point production has been shakey against the better teams and embarrassing on the road. Hopefully there will be no more long term projects on the floor, opting to recruit and sign players with competitive competitive experience that can make an impact in year two not year four or five.

The early exits in tournament play, except for the tourney win last year, are well documented, perhaps the man defensive scheme is conquerable as the season wears on, the inconsistency is occasioned by weaknesses in the lineup that should be correctable now.

In Barnes defense, he did have Collins in the boat until the tampering claim spooked him so it was never his plan to ride solo with ZZ. If Collins were here, we'd be a far different looking team right now and ZZ might not have suffered his injury. Who knows. Barnes also had some guys transfer out. No idea if it was that we made a mistake in our evals or if the kids just didn't like the program once they got a good taste. Either way it does happen everywhere to one degree or another. That's the era of the portal. Makes it easy to take your ball and go home. Then you add in the fact that you have several who sometimes don't show up or are injury prone and it's a perfect storm. Not much Barnes could do differently....at least I can't see another door to go thru.

Regardless, the loss stinks, but if you really step back and look hard at this team, their injuries and the overall state of the guys on the roster, it's clear we've got a tall hill to climb in any tournament. It's going to take the best we've got on defense and some guys getting hot at the right time to win a game or three in a tournament. It's a grind and right now, we're not in the best of shape for any "grind". The season took it's toll on us. So I'm not upset or even disappointed over the loss. I'm far more interested in as long a run in the NCAAT than the SECT. A good long rest and one last kick in the NCAAT is about all we have to look forward to. After that, we can look forward to some fresh faces and the portal. Yeah, we don't know what we have yet, but that's far more interesting to me than the current roster. Wish 'em all the best, but I'm so ready to flip this roster. For better or worse, I'm ready for change.

 

[bravesvolsfan]

What is the front line? I keep up with football more than basketball. Thanks!

 

[HighWaterVol]

Yep. It’s why basketball will never rank as high as football or baseball for me. The game is far too subjective.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a Vol fan in every sport and follow basketball closely. But it’s the least “just” of the major sports.

Baseball is a game, not a sport to me, and I cannot watch although I am quite happy to hear we have had so much recent success under Vitello and even followed how we were doing last year. And don’t get me wrong, I support and love all Vol teams and watch every basketball and football game. Please go back to the baseball forum.

 

[TartanTurff]

Serious question…not meant to be argumentative: say Barnes retires after this season. Who we hiring?

You can't predict who White Danny would eventually hire, but I'd suggest looking at successful coaches and program builders/maintainers sitting in conferences which are crumbling in around them, offering them a chance to come to the SEC rather than wait for their current employer to decide what they are going to do, along the lines of Tommy Lloyd at Arizona or a Scott Drew at Baylor, Dennis Gates at Missouri, long time assistant to Leonard Hamilton would be a possibility, but he just signed a significant extension this week, Jerome Tang, Kansas State, longtime assistant to Scott Drew would be a possibility.

Barnes coaching tree from his tenure at Tennessee isn't proven enough to come back to Tennessee yet, but the Texas interim, Rodney Terry, might be an option depending on what happens down there.

Barnes is in the twilight of his career and you would hope Danny has a list in his pocket, Barnes is a program builder and brings a significant amount of stability to a program he builds, but his post season record is tepid and his teams have inexplicable shortcomings and wholesale breakdowns in clutch moments during the regular season and the post season, but that was a known propensity when Nike steered him to Tennessee when Texas fired him in 2015.

 

[NighthawkVol]

Baseball is a game, not a sport to me, and I cannot watch although I am quite happy to hear we have had so much recent success under Vitello and even followed how we were doing last year. And don’t get me wrong, I support and love all Vol teams and watch every basketball and football game. Please go back to the baseball forum.

You wasted your bi-monthly post on that?

I’m going to have to deny your request. I can support Tennessee in multiple sports and post on multiple boards. I’ll continue to do so.

 

[NighthawkVol]

You can't predict who White Danny would eventually hire, but I'd suggest looking at successful coaches and program builders/maintainers sitting in conferences which are crumbling in around them, offering them a chance to come to the SEC rather than wait for their current employer to decide what they are going to do, along the lines of Tommy Lloyd at Arizona or a Scott Drew at Baylor, Dennis Gates at Missouri, long time assistant to Leonard Hamilton would be a possibility, but he just signed a significant extension this week, Jerome Tang, Kansas State, longtime assistant to Scott Drew would be a possibility.

Barnes coaching tree from his tenure at Tennessee isn't proven enough to come back to Tennessee yet, but the Texas interim, Rodney Terry, might be an option depending on what happens down there.

Barnes is in the twilight of his career and you would hope Danny has a list in his pocket, Barnes is a program builder and brings a significant amount of stability to a program he builds, but his post season record is tepid and his teams have inexplicable shortcomings and wholesale breakdowns in clutch moments during the regular season and the post season, but that was a known propensity when Nike steered him to Tennessee when Texas fired him in 2015.

If Texas lets Terry go, they’re stupid. But Texas has been stupid before.

 

[CAVPUT]

Baseball is a game, not a sport to me, and I cannot watch although I am quite happy to hear we have had so much recent success under Vitello and even followed how we were doing last year. And don’t get me wrong, I support and love all Vol teams and watch every basketball and football game. Please go back to the baseball forum.

Folks mix in news from other sports all over the place. Given the bitter loss last night, I got no problem with sprinkling in some joy over the baseball Vols in the basketball forum. Anything to lighten the mood. Btw, double header today. Starts at 2pm EST if you're interested in watching. Doubt it will be another dong fest like last night, but you never know with this bunch. Got some seriously talented young bats on this years roster.

 

[CAVPUT]

If Texas lets Terry go, they’re stupid. But Texas has been stupid before.

Hey, taking their rejects worked out pretty well last time. I'd not have a problem going to that well again.

 

[lvocd]

The refs have let the game get too physical and now don't know where to draw the line. 3 guys bang in the air on a shot under the goal and it's a no-call, crazy. Walking, palming, 3 seconds are ignored. Its a full-contact sport and impossible to referee.

Exactly. I may be about to reach my limit, unfortunately. I've been saying for a while that given how much bigger, stronger and faster today's players are, officials can no longer keep up with the action.

If it were up to me I'd have 5 officials on each game: three who roam, and one to be stationary under each basket. The stationary officials' sole purpose would be to keep their eyes 100% peeled on just post players to look for fouls, lane violations, etc., while the other three perform as normal.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

The theme for this season, for me anyway, is how many times officials make it about themselves- the reviews, swallowing the whistle vs calling every single thing, etc . They can make a game go a certain way, and they can carry out a vendetta subtly against a coach or a team.
I’m not making excuses for the Vols recent losses, but I firmly believe people talk and the officials have too much influence and not enough accountability. By the time anybody gets around to holding them accountable for egregious no-calls, inconsistent calls, etc, the damage is already done.
When JJJ and SV went out today for foul trouble, it caught up to Tennessee, as they didn’t have a viable option with ZZ out. Works that way sometimes.
Hopefully, they’ll get consistently impartial officiating and will have a solid plan going forward in the NCAAT

I mean hell, I just want it consistent. If it's a foul on us then it needs to be a foul on them. If they get to play rugby in the paint, then let our guys do it too.

Granted I recognize I have orange tinted glasses, but I watched A&M vs Auburn & Arkansas this year. When they played at Arkansas the razorbacks shot 28 FTs, playing at A&M they only shot 14. A&M shot 22 and 24, so the only change was how many Arkansas got. The Auburn game at A&M was big time questionable, Aggies shot 39 FTs and Auburn just 14.

I bring up those games specifically because Arkansas and Auburn are 4 & 5 in conference in FTAs a game and yet BOTH shot one of their lowest FTA games on the road against A&M. Watched both games with no real bias or care for which team won, but it was very inconsistent the way those games were called.