I need help from the Vol Nation

#1
hmhawk

hmhawk

Official cranky old goat
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#1
I work for a company where per our contract we get 6% profit sharing quarterly. The company keeps a 25% hold back that is paid in the first qtr of following year.They announced 4th qtr loss for 08. They still have our hold back from 4th qtr 07,1st,2nd and 3rd qtr 08. We were told Friday we won't get a check. Yet they paid a 10 cent dividend to shareholders and paid bonuses to executives of 85K-125K. I feel the employees got screwed and there must be some recourse. Can anyone give me some suggestions? Should we notify the SEC? I know this ain't political but just figure there is always a TN fan looking for a good fight so I sought help here. A few of us our pushing our socialist union for help but don't expect much. Thanks in advance for any and all help. :mf_surrender:
 
#2
#2
If you're unionized, I find it hard to care. I know it's harsh, but I would absolutely toe the line with the union at every turn. If profit was defined and we didn't make it, you wouldn't get a red dime. Those non unionized fall under different rules.

The SEC would laugh in your face, as they are about securities, unless you're in an ESOP ad they're still unlikely to care.
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#3
#3
BigPapaVol said:
If you're unionized, I find it hard to care. I know it's harsh, but I would absolutely toe the line with the union at every turn. If profit was defined and we didn't make it, you wouldn't get a red dime. Those non unionized fall under different rules.

The SEC would laugh in your face, as they are about securities, unless you're in an ESOP ad they're still unlikely to care.
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I'm a conservative working in a union shop. But that is neither here nor there. Embezzlement is a crime. You can not pay bonuses and dividends and steal money from employees. Glad you ain't my boss.
 
#4
#4
Just remember, without the share holders, you have no job or company to work for. Taking care of them is kinda important.
 
#5
#5
hmhawk said:
I'm a conservative working in a union shop. But that is neither here nor there. Embezzlement is a crime. You can not pay bonuses and dividends and steal money from employees. Glad you ain't my boss.
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How is it stealing money? TGW bonuses and dividend all fall below your profit line, guaranteed. If not, your union is full of idiots at the top.

You might do some homework in the profitability definition before calling someone a thief. If the rules allow for bonuses to mgmt prior to profit, then that stupidity is your problem.
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#9
#9
BigPapaVol said:
How is it stealing money? TGW bonuses and dividend all fall below your profit line, guaranteed. If not, your union is full of idiots at the top.

You might do some homework in the profitability definition before calling someone a thief. If the rules allow for bonuses to mgmt prior to profit, then that stupidity is your problem.
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The hold back should be put in a seperate account. If it is interest bearing then the company is entitled to the interest. But the holdback is there and should be released to the employees. How can you report a loss and yet pay out a dividend and bonuses? I bet you believe the Messiah's stimulus package is gonna work!
 
#11
#11
hmhawk said:
The hold back should be put in a seperate account. If it is interest bearing then the company is entitled to the interest. But the holdback is there and should be released to the employees. How can you report a loss and yet pay out a dividend and bonuses? I bet you believe the Messiah's stimulus package is gonna work!
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I can pay out dividend and bonuses from existing cash or cash flow or even borrow it. None of those has anything to do with the P&L.

You apparently know nothing of my political views.
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#12
#12
BigPapaVol said:
I can pay out dividend and bonuses from existing cash or cash flow or even borrow it. None of those has anything to do with the P&L.

You apparently know nothing of my political views.
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Could care less about your political views. This is about workers getting screwed by management. If you AIN'T got the money you CAN NOT spend the money. And the hold back is money the employees already earned but told they won't get.
 
#13
#13
hmhawk said:
The hold back should be put in a seperate account. If it is interest bearing then the company is entitled to the interest. But the holdback is there and should be released to the employees. How can you report a loss and yet pay out a dividend and bonuses? I bet you believe the Messiah's stimulus package is gonna work!
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since that is directed at BPV, it's obvious you've never posted in the politics forum until now.

what he's trying to tell you is that your company has done nothing legally wrong. A case can be made for the morality of it, but the last time I checked, having bad morals isn't illegal.

This is about workers getting screwed by management.
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you may be a conservative, but phrases like that tell me that your union has gotten to you.
 
#14
#14
hmhawk said:
Didn't ask for it and we aren't ignorant.
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:hi:, are you related to Kusha? You ask for advise and then say it is wrong, good luck collecting money that you are not ever going ever to see.
 
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#15
#15
hmhawk said:
Could care less about your political views. This is about workers getting screwed by management. If you AIN'T got the money you CAN NOT spend the money. And the hold back is money the employees already earned but told they won't get.
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I can see that company operations is not your forte. The management comment readily shows your bent and utter lack of objectivity. The other comments about cash simply say you know nothing of the rules you're living under.

Finally, how much less could you care as you're making retarded comments about my views on the stimulus package, all the while claiming the man screwed you.
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#16
#16
MG1968 said:
since that is directed at BPV, it's obvious you've never posted in the politics forum until now.

what he's trying to tell you is that your company has done nothing legally wrong. A case can be made for the morality of it, but the last time I checked, having bad morals isn't illegal.



you may be a conservative, but phrases like that tell me that your union has gotten to you.
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What I'm saying is that a portion of profit that was made was denied us. profit sharing is an incentive in lieu of wages. That money was made in previous quarters and should be paid out regardless of 4th qtr 08.Looks like I came to wrong place to seek advice. Hello Gators
 
#17
#17
you think a gators board will tell you what you want to hear?

seems to me all that you want to hear is "yeah man, you were screwed. management sucks, workers rule!"

you might get that from some in here, but they're all still asleep or watching the race.
 
#18
#18
hmhawk said:
What I'm saying is that a portion of profit that was made was denied us. profit sharing is an incentive in lieu of wages. That money was made in previous quarters and should be paid out regardless of 4th qtr 08.Looks like I came to wrong place to seek advice. Hello Gators
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How did you get denied profit due you. How were you profitable? You know you can lose money and still have cash flow?
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#19
#19
hmhawk said:
What I'm saying is that a portion of profit that was made was denied us. profit sharing is an incentive in lieu of wages. That money was made in previous quarters and should be paid out regardless of 4th qtr 08.Looks like I came to wrong place to seek advice. Hello Gators
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you can reword it any way you want and in ten different languages, the company "owes" you nothing...we know this is not what you want to hear, but you said yourself that the union is not persuing this, that alone tells you that you have no case
 
#20
#20
Let me ask you, hmhawk, what documents do you have to prove your assertion???

Are the actual terms of the profit sharing plan spelled out in your labor contract??

I have a reason for asking.
 
#21
#21
gsvol said:
Let me ask you, hmhawk, what documents do you have to prove your assertion???

Are the actual terms of the profit sharing plan spelled out in your labor contract??

I have a reason for asking.
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Appreciate the sincere reply. We got an accountant to figure it out. It is NOT in the contract but the company says if it lost money for the year they get to keep the hold back. According to him sice there was a 4th qtr loss we get no 4th qtr profit-no problem with that at all. The main thing is that the company made 9 million for the YEAR so we are entitled to the holdback since it was a quarterly loss and not for the year. The union should be in contact soon when they get all their ducks in a row. It just comes down to whose lawyer talks the best. Again,I appreciate you. Oh yeah I brought my contract home and the hold back is only mentioned once. Has no reason stated for it. Only says it will pay within 45 days of end of qtr or 75 days after year end.
 
#22
#22
hmhawk said:
Appreciate the sincere reply. We got an accountant to figure it out. It is NOT in the contract but the company says if it lost money for the year they get to keep the hold back. According to him sice there was a 4th qtr loss we get no 4th qtr profit-no problem with that at all. The main thing is that the company made 9 million for the YEAR so we are entitled to the holdback since it was a quarterly loss and not for the year. The union should be in contact soon when they get all their ducks in a row. It just comes down to whose lawyer talks the best. Again,I appreciate you. Oh yeah I brought my contract home and the hold back is only mentioned once. Has no reason stated for it. Only says it will pay within 45 days of end of qtr or 75 days after year end.
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that's an altogether different animal than what you described yesterday. If, and I stress IF, you made a $9 million profit for the year, then those holdbacks should be yours, assuming something in the contract justifies the quarterly bonuses.

The management of your outfit must be complete idiots in tying themselves to mandatory quarterly payouts. That said, many of them mortgage the future of their companies in pandering to the idiotic unions out there.
 
#23
#23
Your best options are -
1) Talk to the union about the issue and ask for their help
and/or
2) retain an attorney.

#2 might be needless if #1 picks up the case. Other than that I don't know what to tell you.
 
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