I quit I think.

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gsvol

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#1
I Quit, I Think - John Taylor Gatto

How Public Education Cripples Our Kids, and Why - The Natural Child Project

The Underground History of American Education - John Taylor Gatto

H.L. Mecken
"The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States......"

"And what is a good citizen? Simply one who never says, does or thinks anything that is unusual. Schools are maintained in order to bring this uniformity up to the highest possible point. A school is a hopper into which children are heaved while they are still young and tender; therein they are pressed into certain standard shapes and covered from head to heels with official rubber-stamps.

Karl Arbeiter: former teacher of Albert Einstein
"You're aware the boy failed my grade school math class, I take it? And not that many years later he's teaching college. Now I ask you: Is that the sorriest indictment of the American educational system you ever heard? "

Albert Einstein
"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school."

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."

Samuel Butler
"Genius is a nuisance, and it is the duty of schools and colleges to abate it by setting genius-traps in its way."

Ralph Waldo Emerson
"We are students of words; we are shut up in schools, and colleges, and recitation rooms, for ten or fifteen years, and come out at last with a bag of wind, a memory of words, and do not know a thing."

Anatole France
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't."

G.K. Chesterton
"As regards moral courage, then, it is not so much that the public schools support it feebly, as that they suppress it firmly."

Theodore Roosevelt
"To educate a man in mind, and not in morals, is to educate a menace to society."

John W. Gardner
"Much education today is monumentally ineffective. All too often we are giving young people cut flowers when we should be teaching them to grow their own plants."

Paul E. Gray
"The most important outcome of education is to help students become independent of formal education."

Victor Hugo
"Common sense is in spite of, not as the result of education."

Aristotle
"All who have meditated on the art of governing mankind have been convinced that the fate of empires depends on the education of youth."

Diogenes
"The foundation of every state is the education of its youth."

Plato
"Knowledge which is acquired under compulsion has no hold on the mind. Therefore do not use compulsion, but let early education be rather a sort of amusement; this will better enable you to find out the natural bent of the child."

R.S. Ingersoll
"Colleges are places where pebbles are polished and diamonds are dimmed."

John F. Kennedy
"Liberty without learning is always in peril; learning without liberty is always in vain."

John Lubbock
"Here are three great questions which in life we have over and over again to answer: Is it right or wrong? Is it true or false? Is it beautiful or ugly? Our education ought to help us to answer these questions."

Groucho Marx
"I find television very educational. Every time someone switches it on I go into another room and read a good book."

Doris Lessing
"Ideally, what should be said to every child, repeatedly, throughout his or her school life is something like this: 'You are in the process of being indoctrinated. We have not yet evolved a system of education that is not a system of indoctrination. We are sorry, but it is the best we can do. What you are being taught here is an amalgam of current prejudice and the choices of this particular culture. The slightest look at history will show how impermanent these must be. You are being taught by people who have been able to accommodate themselves to a regime of thought laid down by their predecessors. It is a self-perpetuating system. Those of you who are more robust and individual than others will be encouraged to leave and find ways of educating yourself — educating your own judgements. Those that stay must remember, always, and all the time, that they are being moulded and patterned to fit into the narrow and particular needs of this particular society."

Doris Lessing
"A public library is the most democratic thing in the world. What can be found there has undone dictators and tyrants: demagogues can persecute writers and tell them what to write as much as they like, but they cannot vanish what has been written in the past, though they try often enough...People who love literature have at least part of their minds immune from indoctrination. If you read, you can learn to think for yourself."

Doris Lessing
"Very few people really care about freedom, about liberty, about the truth, very few. Very few people have guts, the kind of guts on which a real democracy has to depend. Without people with that sort of guts a free society dies or cannot be born."

Doris Lessing
"As in the political sphere, the child is taught that he is free, a democrat, with a free will and a free mind, lives in a free country, makes his own decisions. At the same time he is a prisoner of the assumptions and dogmas of his time, which he does not question, because he has never been told they exist. By the time a young person has reached the age when he has to choose (we still take it for granted that a choice is inevitable) between the arts and the sciences, he often chooses the arts because he feels that here is humanity, freedom, choice. He does not know that he is already moulded by a system: he does not know that the choice itself is the result of a false dichotomy rooted in the heart of our culture."

Sir Walter Scott
"All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education."

William Butler Yeats
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire."
 
#2
#2
GS of all your sworn enemies I'm afraid the NEA may be the most dangerous to our country.
 
#3
#3
GS of all your sworn enemies I'm afraid the NEA may be the most dangerous to our country.

Joseph Stalin
"Education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed."

Wonder what the chances are of home school or Christian school students getting college loans now that the government has seized total control of that program??

The Beka program developed at Pensacola Baptist college has 2nd grade students doing 4th grade level work and 7th graders doing post freshman college level work. The key I think is for those students to enroll in a public high school for their senior year, thus their diploma doesn't reveal their real education.

I had previously thought this purposeful sort of dumbing down influence started early in the twentieth century but in researching a bit to make the thread starting post I found out it goes back much further.

William Torrey Harris, U.S. Commissioner of Education, 1889
"Our schools have been scientifically designed to prevent over-education from happening. [...] The average American (should be) content with their humble role in life, because they're not tempted to think about any other role."
 
#5
#5
That quote from enstein's teacher is fictional. Contrary to popular myth, Einstein never failed a math class.
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#6
#6
That quote from enstein's teacher is fictional. Contrary to popular myth, Einstein never failed a math class.
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If it's fictional it's been widely quoted for over a half century that I personally know of.

What authority do you quote as saying the statement is myth?? (don't give me snopes or zinn or some other marxist mouthpiece, they lie as bad as the muslims.)

Do you dispute that Karl Arbeiter was Albert's math teacher?

Consider though what Albert said himself; ""Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." and "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."

Henry David Thoreau
"What does education often do? It makes a straight cut ditch of a free meandering brook."

Alvin Toffler
"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."

Joe theisman
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
 
#7
#7
If it's fictional it's been widely quoted for over a half century that I personally know of.

What authority do you quote as saying the statement is myth?? (don't give me snopes or zinn or some other marxist mouthpiece, they lie as bad as the muslims.)

Yes, it's one of the most wildly popular modern myths, along with chewing gum remaining in your stomach for years.

Here are some links, which I don't think you will find to be necessarily "marxist," or "lie as bad as the muslims," for whatever that is worth.

20 Things You Need to Know About Einstein - Did Einstein flunk math? - TIME

Einstein A to Z by Karen C. Fox and Aries Keck

I can find even more links, if you'd like. Any biography on him of substance will say the same.
 
#8
#8
the problem with education isnt the teachers, its the people running the system. This is coming from a teacher, and someone that knows the ins and out of the system.
 
#10
#10
i agree, however to fix the system you need to start from the top down. The people that are making a lot decisions really have no concept of fiscal liability, nor what is needed in the labor force.
 
#12
#12
Teaching to the lowest common denominator or the middle at best is long term disastrous to the public schools. Parents are not going to live with that for long if their kids are more capable. Hence, by default, schools end up with middlin or worse students whose parents don't give a crap.
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#13
#13
If it's fictional it's been widely quoted for over a half century that I personally know of.

What authority do you quote as saying the statement is myth?? (don't give me snopes or zinn or some other marxist mouthpiece, they lie as bad as the muslims.)

My understanding is that this is a myth. I pulled my copy of Einstein: His Life and Universe (Walter Isaacson) out of the bookcase because I knew I had read about it. It says:

One widely held belief about Einstein is that he failed math as a student, an assertion that is made, often accompanied by the phrase "as everyone knows," by scores of books and thousands of websites designed to reassure underachieving students. It even made it into the famous "Ripley's Believe It or Not!" newspaper column.

Alas, Einstein's childhood offers history many savory ironies, but this is not one of them. In 1935, a rabbi in Princeton showed him a clipping of the Ripley's column with the headline "Greatest Living Mathematician Failed in Mathematics." Einstein laughed. "I never failed in mathematics," he replied, correctly. "Before I was fifteen I had mastered differential and integral calculus."

In fact, he was a wonderful student, at least intellectually. In primary school, he was at the top of his class...Years later, when Einstein celebrated his fiftieth birthday and there were stories about how poorly the great genius had fared at the gymnasium [i.e., Lutipold Gymnasium in Munich], the school's current principal made a point of publishing a letter revealing how good his grades actually were.

Also, the quote about him teaching being an indictment on the American education system...before he was a professor at Princeton, he was a professor at the University of Berlin. Berlin happens to be in the same country as Munich, where Einstein attended grade school and I presume he was taught by Herr Arbeiter. What does that say about the German educational system?
 
#14
#14
Yes, it's one of the most wildly popular modern myths, along with chewing gum remaining in your stomach for years.

Here are some links, which I don't think you will find to be necessarily "marxist," or "lie as bad as the muslims," for whatever that is worth.

20 Things You Need to Know About Einstein - Did Einstein flunk math? - TIME

Einstein A to Z by Karen C. Fox and Aries Keck

I can find even more links, if you'd like. Any biography on him of substance will say the same.

I debated whether to include that quote, although I have heard it since I was a teenager I always considered it to be dubious.

Nevertheless that one quote is beside the point of the thread.







My understanding is that this is a myth. I pulled my copy of Einstein: His Life and Universe (Walter Isaacson) out of the bookcase because I knew I had read about it. It says:



Also, the quote about him teaching being an indictment on the American education system...before he was a professor at Princeton, he was a professor at the University of Berlin. Berlin happens to be in the same country as Munich, where Einstein attended grade school and I presume he was taught by Herr Arbeiter. What does that say about the German educational system?

Was it the same Prussian educational system we adopted in America?

The only other quote I can find atributed to Herr Arbeiter is rather derogatory toward Einstein so perhaps he had Nazi leanings.

I don't know if you know but Bavaria was part of the German republic although it was autonomous.
 
#15
#15
I knew that there were some strange political structures there and that there were some serious regional loyalties, but I didn't know the details. The same book I quoted above spoke to some of this (in the context of Einstein).
 
#16
#16
the problem with education isnt the teachers, its the people running the system. This is coming from a teacher, and someone that knows the ins and out of the system.

The answer probably lies in taking action at the state level as Arizona and Texas have taken the lead in doing.

I agree teachers have an undue burden of red tapeish moronic social engineering crapo to deal with and the overall 'standardization' process literally sucks with an audible sound.




Sometimes it is the teachers too. Just sayin'.

Not so much the teachers but the liberal indoctrination they undergo to become teachers.

Then too there are teachers who just aren't cut out for the position they hold.

A good example is as story told me just this week about someone, who in order to get their degree, needed a credit in a subject they didn't know much about and probably cared less.

The prof was super knowledgeable but started out over most students heads and stayed there most of the time.

The first test given resulted in most students scoring 40 or less.

My friend dropped the course and the prof was almost in tears because he was so passionate about imparting his knowledge and wanting everyone to know about the subject.

Next semester my friend retook the course under a different prof who would take as much time as neccessary to expalin even the dumbest of questions.

Result, the student recieved an A in the course.

Frank Zappa; "You go to college to get layed, for an education you go to the library."






i agree, however to fix the system you need to start from the top down. The people that are making a lot decisions really have no concept of fiscal liability, nor what is needed in the labor force.

Never go to the first grade of school knowing how to read and write and add and subtract, it makes teachers nervous about employment security. :)

Here is a good example of what I think you are talking about.

I was helping someone with their college math course in an education major, I think it was titled 'mathematics methodology.'

I was a bit stumped by what seemed to me to be a rather stupid process (imo anyway) used to arrive at the answer.

I kept asking questions about the purpose of the exercise and finally got the answer; "well that's how students think."

I replied; "well that's not how I think."

And I was doing complicated math at the time myself, without formal training at all. I do admit when it came to trig I would have to ask an engineer once in a while; "how does this sine cosine formula go again?"







Teaching to the lowest common denominator or the middle at best is long term disastrous to the public schools. Parents are not going to live with that for long if their kids are more capable. Hence, by default, schools end up with middlin or worse students whose parents don't give a crap.
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Not only disastrous to public schools but disastrous to a nation, our nation.

I converse daily with a public school teacher, the number one problem????

Parents that don't give a crap.

Parents have a process to have a voice about what is taught in their schools but not one in a hundred exercises that right.

Then too there is funding.

I ran into an old coworker and friend who is now the local school librarian, when I found that out I said; "I would like to give you a list of books for the library."

She replied; "well go ahead, I would love to see it but I don't have any money to buy any books."

Here is an idea, if anyone is interested in what books are available for students to check out and read on their own, for those few students who are really interested in learning, then buy a book and donate it to your local school library, if you reach just one student, that student might influence ten thousand or more.






I knew that there were some strange political structures there and that there were some serious regional loyalties, but I didn't know the details. The same book I quoted above spoke to some of this (in the context of Einstein).

I personally like Bavarians, they seem to me to be more like the Swiss than the Germans in many ways.

Bavaria has it that they can annul any law passed by Germany if they don't approve, at least as the law concerns Bavaria.

I had an opportunity to study for one year at the University of Munich, one slot open, one applicant, me, but someone refused to sign off on it for personal reasons between him and me.

I was a bit POed at the time but in retrospect I spent that year in a position to read any book I wanted which were all labled 'top secret codeword', so I would say I learned a lot because it took me a minimum of 45 minutes and a maximum or two hours to complete my tasks and the rest of the time I could read to my heart's desire.

Thing is though, it is damned hard to convince most anyone that what they think is true, because of what they have learned from the media or even from well respected history books, just ain't so.

Something else that's weird, to pick up a newspaper when you get off work and read about something that says just the opposite of what you just read in the daily CIA report that morning.

I guess that's one reason I like a lot about the Tao, in that it dwells at length on the duality of all things.

Note: Duality and duplicity are two completely differnent animals. Subtle perhaps but as profound as the difference between spots and stripes, which ironically are both meant to be a camoflage.
 
#17
#17
Man, talk about getting my hopes up. This thread title was VERY misleading. Shame on you gsvol.
 
#18
#18
Man, talk about getting my hopes up. This thread title was VERY misleading. Shame on you gsvol.

:p

Say, while you're here, do you have any ideas about how we should or could have a reformation of public schooling??

Of course we need to eliminate any vestage of the William Ayers shcool of creating little political activist revolutionaries but beyone that??
 
#19
#19
If it's fictional it's been widely quoted for over a half century that I personally know of.

What authority do you quote as saying the statement is myth?? (don't give me snopes or zinn or some other marxist mouthpiece, they lie as bad as the muslims.)

Do you dispute that Karl Arbeiter was Albert's math teacher?

Consider though what Albert said himself; ""Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." and "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."

Henry David Thoreau
"What does education often do? It makes a straight cut ditch of a free meandering brook."

Alvin Toffler
"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."

Joe theisman
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."

That's the truth.
 
#21
#21
GS of all your sworn enemies I'm afraid the NEA may be the most dangerous to our country.

"NEA will become a political power second to no other special interest group ... NEA will have more and more to say about how a teacher is educated, whether he should be admitted to the profession, and depending on his behavior and ability whether he should stay in the profession."
Sam Lambert, National Education Association (NEA) Executive Secretary (1967)

"Truly effective education must be humanistically-oriented toward student self-concepts ... Greater efficiency in the teaching of subject matter is not our most pressing need."
Introduction to Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development (ASCD) Report (1978)

"If education is to meet the current and future needs of our society, Humanistic objectives and Humanist thought must operate at the very heart of every school and classroom in the nation."
Arthur Combs, "Humanism, Education, and the Future" published in Educational Leadership (1978)

"By the early 1970s, a 'Young Turk' faction had gained control of the NEA.. .and launched into full-scale unionism ... When Terry Herndon became NEA's executive director in 1973, he set about building a huge political machine... What is the NEA's ultimate goal? Herndon is blunt: 'To tap the legal, political and economic powers of the US Congress. We want leaders and staff with sufficient clout that they may roam the halls of Congress and collect votes to reorder the priorities of the United States of America."
Eugene Methvin "The NEA: A Washington Lobby Run Rampant" published in Reader's Digest (1978)

"... an ESEA [Elementary and Secondary Education Act] -sponsored program ... actually had the students of an elementary school class collectively put their parents on trial - following which the mother and father were always found guilty."
Senator Orrin Hatch, address to Congress in his successful defence of his "Pupil Rights Amendment," The Congressional Record (1978)

More to come, this is just from 1964-1980, from thier onw mouths.
 
#22
#22
Education in this country has been a joke for decades. This is nothing new. Kids that go to public schools are force-fed "knowledge", when in reality, rather than force-feeding it to them, they should be taught to question everything they hear. A kid shouldn't simply be taught to read, he should be taught to question everything he reads.
 
#23
#23
Education in this country has been a joke for decades. This is nothing new. Kids that go to public schools are force-fed "knowledge", when in reality, rather than force-feeding it to them, they should be taught to question everything they hear. A kid shouldn't simply be taught to read, he should be taught to question everything he reads.

I agree, one of the main reasons for education at all is to teach the student how to think on his own but our educational system is ever increasingly indoctrinating sudents in group think and those who back such things aren't shy about stating their purpose.

To make matters even worse, in the name of cultural diversity public funds are spent to educate (read indoctrinate) some students in a doctrine that is the absolute antithema to what the nation has been about since it's founding.

Example A:

FOXNews.com - U.S. Islamic Schools Teaching Homegrown Hate - Opinion

With the massive immigration of Muslims over recent decades ? primarily because of the wretchedness of most native Islamic states ? these parochial schools are increasing. Throughout America now are 200 to 600 Islamic day schools, teaching at least 30,000 full-time students and thousands more on weekends. The Washington Islamic Academy, outside the nation's capital, teaches some 1,300 kids, including children of Arabic-speaking diplomats.

It may rank among the worst of these academies, as it is funded by Saudi money. Its high school textbook, in the reporters' words, "says one sign of the Day of Judgment will be that Muslims will fight and kill Jews, who will hide behind trees that say: 'Oh Muslim, Oh servant of God, here is a Jew hiding behind me. Come here and kill him.'"

Example B:

Teacher questions Muslim practices at charter school | StarTribune.com

Before the assembly, she says she was told, her duties would include taking her fifth-grade students to the bathroom, four at a time, to perform "their ritual washing."

Afterward, Getz said, "teachers led the kids into the gym, where a man dressed in white with a white cap, who had been at the school all day," was preparing to lead prayer. Beside him, another man "was prostrating himself in prayer on a carpet as the students entered."

"The prayer I saw was not voluntary," Getz said. "The kids were corralled by adults and required to go to the assembly where prayer occurred."

Islamic Studies was also incorporated into the school day. "When I arrived, I was told 'after school we have Islamic Studies,' and I might have to stay for hall duty," Getz said. "The teachers had written assignments on the blackboard for classes like math and social studies. Islamic Studies was the last one -- the board said the kids were studying the Qu'ran. The students were told to copy it into their planner, along with everything else. That gave me the impression that Islamic Studies was a subject like any other."

I could give plenty more examples down that line.

If anything should be taught American students about Islam, Islam's bloody history and tyrannical regimes should be stressed!!!

Notice that the communist front group, the ACLU, while being vociferously outspoken about any word of our Chistian history and heritage being mentioned in any public schools, they suddenly have lockjaw when it comes to islamic hate.
 

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