Im still not understanding the whole "we are too slow" slogan..

[Spartacavolus]

It's called the Willie special. Ask Ga fans or Ok fans.

Coleman isn't coached to play 7 yds off and give up an easy 5 yd pass on 3rd down. He's supposed to play the stick there and not only didn't, but backed up because he knew the wr can outrun him, and he stumbled as well.
Slick Willie had these dbs high in int rankings until a week ago. Slick also won a couple of sec titles as a db coach at ga and the dbs coming in have coaches and parents that know he can coach dbs. Misinformation abounds because in a couple of games as a ga dc, they struggled. Who cares.

 

[DaddyChad]

This defense isn't that much better than Sunseri's was. It certainly looked as bad against Missouri as it did last year.

Are you for real or just being intentionally dense?

Our defense was one of the statistically worst defenses in the country last year. I think we were the worst red zone defense statistically for a long time last year and may have finished as the worst red zone defense in the nation.

http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-football/176818-worst-defense-ut-has-ever-had.html

That's a thread I had tracking our defensive progress last year. I warn you it might make you want to cut your eyes out.

The defense isn't great but let's not over-exaggerate.

I never updated it after the Vandy game either because I needed to be medicated heavily after that. lol:

 

[sjt18]

Here is my problem.

The game plan that almost beat Georgia and beat SC didn't work?

Yes. And I freely did and do give credit for that. But let's see we're 2 years from now with very good talent on the roster... will you still be OK with lapses in gameplanning or any other coaching task that costs the team games? If you are OK with the 2nd tier then maybe that doesn't bother you. If you want to see championships in K'ville then it should.

An Oline that even last year with 5 future NFL players on Offense, that was not dominate in run blocking but with virtually no passing game this year is averaging more rushing yards, and you do not believe they have improved? they are regressing?

They have regressed. The run blocking has not changed much if any and the pass pro hasn't been as good. And unless you are saying those guys do not have talent... then wouldn't you expect an "elite" OC and OL coach to get more out of them than the last coaches.... who were fired? AND... if they can't get more out of them... wouldn't you expect them to at least try some of the back ups?

A defense that gave up 36.2 points per game last year, is now giving up 25.1 but the defense has not improved?

Many of the guys on this D were on the D two years ago as Sophs and Fr, remember? That Wilcox coached D WITH A WORSE SECONDARY allowed 22.6 ppg. Maggitt, AJ, Randolph, and Coleman ALL started for that D for all or part of the season as Fr.

If this staff had Bray, CP, Hunter, Rivera, Z Rogers, and Thomas and went to Missouri and did not score but 3 points then they should be fired but they had a freshman QB making his first start on the road with 2 FR and a soph receiver starting.

When did I complain about the Dobbs or the WR's contribution to this loss? I didn't. Why are you trying to build strawmen?

After losing all that offensive talent from last year that could not get 6 wins could not beat a ranked, this staff takes a very less talented offense and virtually the same defense and beats SC.

So your goal is to just match what Dooley did in his first year? That's your standard for a "good job"? Mine is considerably higher than that.

DD failed miserably. Last year was a complete collapse. But his first year went VERY similar to the way this year is going.

if you cannot see improvement from last year to this year, either you do not know as much about football as you think or you have an agenda against this coaching staff or your a Dooley lover or a troll.

Or none of the above but rather I have my eyes open and have not blinded myself to potential deficiencies in coaching.

What do you recommend we do? fire Jones and his staff after 9 games?

I don't recommend the notion of firing Jones even be entertained until year 3 at the very earliest. But I also recommend that you and others stop closing your eyes to the faults and shortcomings of the staff. You don't have to be hyper critical... just don't ignore it when the staff fails to get as much out of the roster as they are capable of. And maybe stop acting as if UT has a Sunbelt Conf roster with "zero talent"... because it just ain't true.

Missouri beat us on both sides of the ball nobody is freaking happy about that, but its Auburn week, are you going to be in Neyland stadium Saturday? probably not.

Nope. I have obligations that prevent me from traveling 900 miles to watch a football game. If I could be there... you don't know anyone who would be more faithful.

Give this staff a chance. OH btw Wilcox defense in 2010 was blown out by Oregon, Alabama, and Georgia

I AM giving them a chance. I AM praising pretty much anything I hear about that they do well. They had some great games vs UGA and USCe. They're hitting a homerun in recruiting. CBJ's fan and alumni approach is fantastic. They're doing many, many things well.

BUT... there comes a time if you want to "play championship football" in the SEC that the coaches have to consistently match or out coach some of the best coaches in football. They aren't doing that right now... and they aren't getting all the good out of this roster either. Yes. I realize they didn't recruit these guys but that doesn't excuse all of what we're seeing.

LOL... do you really want to talk about blowouts? Wilcox's D DID NOT give up the highest point total in 100 years. And again... is Dooley's first year the "standard" you want Jones to meet? Sorry, I cannot buy on to that.

 

[sjt18]

It's funny seeing SJT, who bashed anyone who questioned Dooley and even went as far as saying by doing so we were helping other teams in recruiting, now bashing Butch.

I didn't bash people then and I am not bashing Jones now.

But to your point... I learned a lesson about attempting to close my eyes to things that run counter to what I hope to be true.

You know the guy who has actually won in his career. Keep it up there, Vincent.

Only six of Jones' 20 FCS wins at Cincy came against teams that ended with a winning record. The combined records of the teams he beat while there was 132-164.

He inherited a better program by far than DD did at LT.

So what does that all mean? Dooley failed. He did a poor job in a great number of ways that resulted in him being fired. But does that mean Jones is "great" because his resume was better? Are you really suggesting we accept the "bar" as low as Dooley set it? Jones talks about players performing at a championship level... should we expect anything less from the coaches?

I want to believe as badly as any of you guys that Jones has the program on the road to championship glory. I would love to think that Bama will dread UT coming to town in two years. But I will NOT (again) purposefully ignore indications of problems with a coaching staff.

If my learning a lesson offends you then so be it.

 

[oregonvol]

I'm happy sjt18 learned his lesson from the Dooley years. He makes so much sense now, it's astounding. Would have thought more here would have learned the same lesson, but unfortunately, it looks like most here never will.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

Yes. And I freely did and do give credit for that. But let's see we're 2 years from now with very good talent on the roster... will you still be OK with lapses in gameplanning or any other coaching task that costs the team games? If you are OK with the 2nd tier then maybe that doesn't bother you. If you want to see championships in K'ville then it should.

They have regressed. The run blocking has not changed much if any and the pass pro hasn't been as good. And unless you are saying those guys do not have talent... then wouldn't you expect an "elite" OC and OL coach to get more out of them than the last coaches.... who were fired? AND... if they can't get more out of them... wouldn't you expect them to at least try some of the back ups?

Many of the guys on this D were on the D two years ago as Sophs and Fr, remember? That Wilcox coached D WITH A WORSE SECONDARY allowed 22.6 ppg. Maggitt, AJ, Randolph, and Coleman ALL started for that D for all or part of the season as Fr.

When did I complain about the Dobbs or the WR's contribution to this loss? I didn't. Why are you trying to build strawmen?

So your goal is to just match what Dooley did in his first year? That's your standard for a "good job"? Mine is considerably higher than that.

DD failed miserably. Last year was a complete collapse. But his first year went VERY similar to the way this year is going.

Or none of the above but rather I have my eyes open and have not blinded myself to potential deficiencies in coaching.

I don't recommend the notion of firing Jones even be entertained until year 3 at the very earliest. But I also recommend that you and others stop closing your eyes to the faults and shortcomings of the staff. You don't have to be hyper critical... just don't ignore it when the staff fails to get as much out of the roster as they are capable of. And maybe stop acting as if UT has a Sunbelt Conf roster with "zero talent"... because it just ain't true.

Nope. I have obligations that prevent me from traveling 900 miles to watch a football game. If I could be there... you don't know anyone who would be more faithful.

I AM giving them a chance. I AM praising pretty much anything I hear about that they do well. They had some great games vs UGA and USCe. They're hitting a homerun in recruiting. CBJ's fan and alumni approach is fantastic. They're doing many, many things well.

BUT... there comes a time if you want to "play championship football" in the SEC that the coaches have to consistently match or out coach some of the best coaches in football. They aren't doing that right now... and they aren't getting all the good out of this roster either. Yes. I realize they didn't recruit these guys but that doesn't excuse all of what we're seeing.

LOL... do you really want to talk about blowouts? Wilcox's D DID NOT give up the highest point total in 100 years. And again... is Dooley's first year the "standard" you want Jones to meet? Sorry, I cannot buy on to that.

No my goal is to contend for a championship every year but I am realistic that this year we are not and this roster is bad. why do you think the 2 deep in the secondary consist of 3 walk ons and 2 freshman? why do you think the 2 deep at receiver consist of 3 freshman a soph and a walkon ? The LB's only 2 in the 2 deep had an SEC offer. Look at our RB's and depth.

you are the one that has been praising Dooley and Wilcox. I think if it was your choice Dools would still be here.

No one said he had zero talent but you act like Dools left the cupboard overflowing with talent. It is tough to come in the SEC and the first year look like a championship coach especially with our depth and talent level.

Your a constantly implying this staff cannot develop talent. Maybe they have and some of the walkons and Freshman are better then dooleys recruits.

 

[sjt18]

No my goal is to contend for a championship every year but I am realistic that this year we are not and this roster is bad.

You are buying an excuse that isn't true relevant to expectations and other situations. There is talent on the OL. It isn't performing... but no one anywhere outside of UT's fanbase has questioned the raw talent. UT has raw talent in their D front 7. They have "talent" at WR and RB. NO ONE that I know of said seriously that UT should win the East or SEC this year. You guys keep trying that ridiculous strawman to evade what ARE reasonable expectations.

Many here at the beginning of the year said that 6-6 or even 5-7 was good enough as long as the team played hard to the end and improved over the year. The last two games are not indicative of that.

This is/was a 7 win roster if coached to its potential. Not a 9 or 10 win roster. Not a Bama beating roster. Not an SEC East champ roster... just a 7 win roster.

why do you think the 2 deep in the secondary consist of 3 walk ons and 2 freshman?

I'm not sure. Perhaps you should ask the coaches why those walk ons are playing ahead of several scholarship players who supposedly had some ability when they signed.

FWIW, Swafford isn't just a walk on... he's a Fr... and he's sure played like a scholarship Fr when he's had his chance.

why do you think the 2 deep at receiver consist of 3 freshman a soph and a walkon ?

The walkon won PT last year on a team that included some pretty good WR's... so it is more than just a tad disingenuous to pretend he's "just a walk on" filling space.

The LB's only 2 in the 2 deep had an SEC offer.

Not quite true. Brewer had SEC offers iirc... but that was awhile ago. Sapp is one of the few guys in UT's front 7 who is playing like he belongs in the SEC.... and he's fast for a LB.

I cannot tell you btw why JRM is not in the 2 deep or not getting real PT. He IS fast... and a heat seeking missile... and appears to be a pretty smart football player. Again, why hasn't he been developed to the point of making a real contribution when he seems to obviously have the right physical talent?

Look at our RB's and depth.

One guy on pace to rush for 1000 yds... another guy who of late has looked better running the ball... but who isn't getting the ball enough. Lane avg'd over 6 ypc vs MU... Neal 1 ypc... Neal played much more than Lane.

Depth? How does UGA's depth look at RB? UF? USCe?

you are the one that has been praising Dooley and Wilcox. I think if it was your choice Dools would still be here.

You are getting really desperate to divert now. I said after the USCe game last year that Dooley had to go. I argued for people to give him a chance to save himself up to that point. When he reached a point of being unable to "prove" himself with a good win... I said he had to go and never looked back. I have repeatedly said here that he failed and deserved to be fired.

BTW, where have I praised Dooley? Are you really at a point of resorting to outright lies now?

IMHO, Wilcox is the best DC UT has had since Chavis won the NC. Chavis like CPF imo fell off and got lazy.

No one said he had zero talent but you act like Dools left the cupboard overflowing with talent.

When would that be when I said it was not a roster capable of winning the East or when I said it had issues or when I acknowledged that it needed more fast guys? You are not telling the truth... again.

It is tough to come in the SEC and the first year look like a championship coach especially with our depth and talent level.

No. He expects his players to play at a championship level, right? He talks about it all the time. But you are suggesting its OK for the coaches to do less...

Your a constantly implying this staff cannot develop talent.

No. I am not. Again you have made a false statement demonstrating desperation to not admit you are wrong.

I HAVE said that there are players that do not seem to be developing that could help the team... and that some players are NOT playing up to their talent level. Nowhere have I said nor do I believe that the coaches "cannot" develop talent. Has not... and cannot... aren't the same.

Maybe they have and some of the walkons and Freshman are better then dooleys recruits.

That's interesting since 3 of the walkons who are playing iirc were "Dooley recruits". Jones and Williams are a JUCO and a transfer of some sort. M Foreman is a Jones guy... and Swafford was supposedly the tag along to him. The W/O WR is playing in front of or beside several Jones recruits including a JUCO.

I don't think you've helped your case here.

What you have effectively said is that 3 walk ons from Dooley's tenure were talented and developed enough from the start til now to hold down positions in the 2 deep while scholarship players with ostensibly more talent can't develop enough to overtake them.

 

[volfan411]

Sjt18 you seem to have overlooked my post that we are averaging more yards per carry and more yards per game than last year and we have played a much tougher schedule. You keep saying the OL has regressed yet provide no solid reason as to why you say that. If it is your opinion that is fine if it is not please provide stats to back up your statements.

As I posted yesterday we are way down in passing yards per game but that is not necessarily on the OL.

 

[sjt18]

Sjt18 you seem to have overlooked my post that we are averaging more yards per carry and more yards per game than last year and we have played a much tougher schedule.

I didn't see it. But that would definitely be a positive thing.

You keep saying the OL has regressed yet provide no solid reason as to why you say that.

They have played very poorly the last two games. They have acknowledged that they have played poorly. Jones has publicly called them soft after 10 months of opportunity and effort to toughen them up. I can understand Bama sort of. You still want to see guys have a little pluck about themselves... but Bama is rough. I frankly don't understand MU at all. The MU players that kicked UT's OL around last Saturday weren't good enough to make Saban's scout team. They made UT's OL look like a Pop Warner team.

If it is your opinion that is fine if it is not please provide stats to back up your statements.

They peaked vs UGA. That may have been the best game they've played as a group at UT. Over 400 yds of O and 31 pts. QB pretty clean.

They managed to win vs USCe but they did not handle Clowney nearly as well as the year before. They ran the ball poorly and needed a couple of miracle plays between Worley and North to produce the points needed to win. 325 yds of O and 23 pts. QB harrassed and injured.

They were awful against Bama. 322 yds of O (much after the game was a laugher) and 10 pts. QB harrassed and injured again.

They were again awful vs MU. Less than 100 yds rushing (3.9 ypc avg), 334 yds of O, 3 pts. QB harrassed all night... which contributed to him being UT's leading rusher.

As I posted yesterday we are way down in passing yards per game but that is not necessarily on the OL.

It isn't.

The OL may be better than last year... but last year was a disaster. The pass pro looks worse but Bray was decisive and got rid of the ball on time. He also had WR's that helped with that.

I am more concerned with what the OL has or has not done since January of '13 or perhaps more specifically August. They did look a little better at first but have faded recently.

And honestly... talk about them being "soft" right now makes me want to pop my cork. If they are "soft" 9 games into their Sr year... maybe its time someone else get a shot.

 

[volfan411]

I didn't see it. But that would definitely be a positive thing.

They have played very poorly the last two games. They have acknowledged that they have played poorly. Jones has publicly called them soft after 10 months of opportunity and effort to toughen them up. I can understand Bama sort of. You still want to see guys have a little pluck about themselves... but Bama is rough. I frankly don't understand MU at all. The MU players that kicked UT's OL around last Saturday weren't good enough to make Saban's scout team. They made UT's OL look like a Pop Warner team.

They peaked vs UGA. That may have been the best game they've played as a group at UT. Over 400 yds of O and 31 pts. QB pretty clean.

They managed to win vs USCe but they did not handle Clowney nearly as well as the year before. They ran the ball poorly and needed a couple of miracle plays between Worley and North to produce the points needed to win. 325 yds of O and 23 pts. QB harrassed and injured.

They were awful against Bama. 322 yds of O (much after the game was a laugher) and 10 pts. QB harrassed and injured again.

They were again awful vs MU. Less than 100 yds rushing (3.9 ypc avg), 334 yds of O, 3 pts. QB harrassed all night... which contributed to him being UT's leading rusher.


It isn't.

The OL may be better than last year... but last year was a disaster. The pass pro looks worse but Bray was decisive and got rid of the ball on time. He also had WR's that helped with that.

I am more concerned with what the OL has or has not done since January of '13 or perhaps more specifically August. They did look a little better at first but have faded recently.

And honestly... talk about them being "soft" right now makes me want to pop my cork. If they are "soft" 9 games into their Sr year... maybe its time someone else get a shot.

I am agreeing with you they have not played well this season and I think me and you have discussed before I base my opinion on last season and the numbers are really close. If you are basing your opinion on expectations from January I can see where you are coming from.

Last seasons average yard per carry was 4.7 and this season we are 5.0. We still have a 3 games left and I would hope with the remaining teams the average goes up or stays the same. We are averaging about 20 more yards per game rushing but are down 135 yards per game passing. As a comparison we had 79 yards rushing against Alabama last season and 127 this year.

I think there are several factors in the passing game you have to consider and they are the loss of 3 NFL caliber players and the play of Worley early and the drops by receivers. I am not so sure that scheme can be blamed on the passing games as there have been open receivers and the QB has either made a bad read, a bad pass or had the pass dropped.

 

[sjt18]

I am agreeing with you they have not played well this season and I think me and you have discussed before I base my opinion on last season and the numbers are really close. If you are basing your opinion on expectations from January I can see where you are coming from.

I can't see the logic of basing improvement over being better under Jones than Dooley. Jones is a better coach from the start. Dooley was pretty much a buzz kill for the team last year after they laid an egg against UF. Just Jones being positive is worth something.

What I'd like to see is improvement from one point to another under Jones' coaching.

I think there are several factors in the passing game you have to consider and they are the loss of 3 NFL caliber players and the play of Worley early and the drops by receivers. I am not so sure that scheme can be blamed on the passing games as there have been open receivers and the QB has either made a bad read, a bad pass or had the pass dropped.

I don't really have a huge complaint about the passing game. It still isn't "great" but WR play has definitely improved over the season. Losing Worley was a set back but Dobbs looks good enough most of the time to be very hopeful about his potential once some of those mistakes are cleaned up.

My greatest angst about the MU game was the performance of the OL and the D front 7.

If Jones turns that around against a pretty talented Auburn team... then that will be another HUGE praiseworthy thing.

 

[1972 Grad]

Dooley valued size over speed

I know women like that.