Im still not understanding the whole "we are too slow" slogan..

[KingtUT]

How can you argue against the stats he mentioned?

Not arguing stats, im arguing opinions. The opinion that teams like Toledo cant be faster than us is wrong IMO. Our front four and lbs are slower than many WAC teams etc. We are slow, period. There are plenty of teams that are built around speed, currently we are not. Were like the toys on misfit island, you can still play with them but there's just a little something wrong with each of em. Merry Christmas

 

[Spartacavolus]

How can you argue against the stats he mentioned?

By watching football games.

 

[hndog609]

First, Missouri.
L'Damian Washington's career reception average is 17.7ypc. He's been getting behind people. Marcus Lucas was ranked as high as #9 nationally at WR and played in the USAAA game. Dorial Green-Beckham came out of HS as Rival's #1 ranked player in the country. Not WR mind you...player. (and sub-10.6 100m)

Second, speed vs stars
Why would anyone assume a "direct" relationship between speed and stars/ratings? One can be blindingly fast and not be a particularly good football player OR be fairly pedestrian in speed but still be quite productive if strong enough in other areas. Obviously faster is always better all else being equal but faster, in and of itself, doesn't mean squat anywhere other than a pure race.

 

[huskyvol]

Not arguing stats, im arguing opinions. The opinion that teams like Toledo cant be faster than us is wrong IMO. Our front four and lbs are slower than many WAC teams etc. We are slow, period. There are plenty of teams that are built around speed, currently we are not. Were like the toys on misfit island, you can still play with them but there's just a little something wrong with each of em. Merry Christmas

Ok. Thanks for an actual answer. It is hard to get a straight up answer around here without so many bad attitudes. :hi:

 

[majic73]

Ok people, so it seems to be a consensus that our D and some of our Offense are too slow and that's a huge reason why we get pummeled against good, solid opponents. So, tell me..why is Mizzou soooooo fast. They recruit 3, 4 and 5 star talent just like we have the past 5 years. Hell, I don't even know if they have had a top 10 recruiting class in years! Why are they sooooo fast and we soooooo slow?

Byron Moore....4 star Juco top DB that chose us over Miami, FL. Would he have been fast if he went to Miami? Why is he so slow? Justin Coleman....5 star stud recruit when came in. Why is he getting blazed so badly on every freakin play?! Brian Randolph...another 4 star recruit. Slow! Why are these guys slow while every other team's players are sooooo fast? I don't get it lol

many elements of our DBs are young , soph and freshmen. They look slow in many cases because they are slow to identify their keys and react. This will change with maturity and experience. It takes time. I would look for extreme improvement next season.

Our LBs and D front appear slow because they have no depth ...1-2 quarters they are done . There is no 3 deep here . A couple of freshmen and some squad caliber guys
They are getting over used

Not to mention that AJ and big Dan were 34 guys to Dooley all the way and are not ideal guys for the 43. Not dogging them , but they were gap control guys now being asked to rush and cover and go sideline to sideline.

The secondary relates back to their pass rush. If there is no pass rush due to the depth issue ...any secondary will break down in space in 3 seconds or so . It is hard to gauge the cover guys at this point because of this.

 

[KingtUT]

Ok. Thanks for an actual answer. It is hard to get a straight up answer around here without so many bad attitudes. :hi:

I do what I can. :hi:

 

[perico]

Leonard Scott was the fastest player in UT history at the time he came, and after his first year and Tee graduated, was never much of a deep threat.

What nobody is mentioning yet is that with Mizzou, it's not just their speed at WR, it's their size. Both of their outside guys are inches taller than even North. Green-Beckham is 6'6 (that's Randy Moss size height) and Washington is every bit of 6'4". Marcus Lucas is 6'5" and 220 lbs. These guys are matching up against our 5'10 DBs that aren't that fast.

 

[james_govols]

You can be a 4 or 5 star, but still not have speed. You can't teach speed, and we need some desperately.

Oh we can get these little freshmen in the weight room and work on their leg muscles and it will help with acceleration and speed.

 

[LocoVol]

"Lack of speed" is also one of the more common excuses for coaches who don't get their players coached up to play their lanes and gap assignments.

Mizzou has played several slower D's this year.

Toledo is not faster than UT on D. They held Mizzou to 172 yds and a 3.66 yd avg.

The only team that allowed more rushing yardage was Murray St. UT allowed more than Vandy, Ark St, and Indiana.... none of whom have more talent or speed on D than UT.

:thumbsup:

Wow, most common sense on here in a long time. Great post.

 

[sjt18]

you will understand what is and isn't slow on the field when you watch guys run and play instead of 40 times from a track stance with track shoes on. Not pads, helmet, braces, tape, cleats, etc. If there is any clarification needed, ask the 4.5 guys that catch and tackle Neal and his 4.3.

A very big part of coaching is putting players in a position to use their natural talent to be successful. If guys can run and look slow playing... you eventually MUST tie that back to the coaching, system, or both.

And mizzou will have more defensive players drafted this year than we will in the next 2 combined, so lets stop acting like we are more talented.

Really? I see Sam and maybe Gaines. List those other sure fire defensive draftees.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

We had slow DB's when Wilcox was here and didn't see opposing players skipping freely through the end zone like a 10 year old girl on her way to Sunday School.

I am not sure how many blown coverage and missed tackles it takes, but, at some point, the speed excuse loses steam.

 

[govols/cc]

Corey Miller and Jacques Smith are both HUGE disappointment! The underachieving duo...

Don't leave out AJ Johnson. & Randolph. & Moore. & Coleman

 

[MOOOOONEY]

"Lack of speed" is also one of the more common excuses for coaches who don't get their players coached up to play their lanes and gap assignments.

Mizzou has played several slower D's this year.

Toledo is not faster than UT on D. They held Mizzou to 172 yds and a 3.66 yd avg.

The only team that allowed more rushing yardage was Murray St. UT allowed more than Vandy, Ark St, and Indiana.... none of whom have more talent or speed on D than UT.

what team have you been watching the last 2 or 3 years? certainly not Tennessee. Their is a lot of speed issues and I have come to the conclusion that you have some type of an agenda because even Jimmy Hyams can tell their is lack of speed on this team.

It doesn't help with all the bad angles that are being taken and it is something that I cannot explain, these kids have been doing angle drills since little league football. I think has to do with a lot of bad habits that weren't corrected during the fooley debacle and habits are a hard thing to change and youth has to do with some of it.

I will take exception to the comment of not getting them coached up to play their lanes and gap assignments, they did a great job in the SC game against a better QB and team but they had a herd time in the Missouri game with rush lanes and letting the QB get out of the pocket and with containing the edge as always but we were gashed up the middle which I haven't seen that happen much this year. I am giving the benefit of the doubt after a hard fought lose to Georgia and emotional win against SC and then going to Bama, inmo the team had a let down and that happens to good teams and we are not good.

How does speed and talent suppose to coordinate here? talent has nothing to do with speed. I love all this so called talent that we have on defense. where is it? who is it? 2 walkon freshman at Nickel back, a starting DB that had no other SEC offers but us, ky and vandy. 2 more walkons and a freshman in the secondary 2 deep. A safety who transferred from USC bc he couldn't play in the PAC 12. Probably the worst LB corps in the SEC, only 2 LB's in the 2 deep had an SEC offer. The Dline was suppose to be the strength of the Defense, 3 senior 4 stars who have never lived up to their hype, too many coaches? Systems? who knows. A former Olineman moved to dline bc he couldn't crack the 2 deep and a huge man who plays like a child.

So quit spewing that talent bs without doing your homework.

 

[615vols]

Well think about it. We have no pass rush, inconsistent at best. We have Hood and mccullers starting in the interior just pretty much being space eaters and clogging the middle. Then you have aj Johnson at lb who is a good run stopper, but its no secret he's slow and not good in coverage.
Throw in a walk on running back named jaron toney as our nickel, and Justin Coleman starting at corner and opposing offenses have plenty of areas to attack.
We need more talent, and butch is getting it here. This will change.

 

[immyaxl]

Ok people, so it seems to be a consensus that our D and some of our Offense are too slow and that's a huge reason why we get pummeled against good, solid opponents. So, tell me..why is Mizzou soooooo fast. They recruit 3, 4 and 5 star talent just like we have the past 5 years. Hell, I don't even know if they have had a top 10 recruiting class in years! Why are they sooooo fast and we soooooo slow?

Byron Moore....4 star Juco top DB that chose us over Miami, FL. Would he have been fast if he went to Miami? Why is he so slow? Justin Coleman....5 star stud recruit when came in. Why is he getting blazed so badly on every freakin play?! Brian Randolph...another 4 star recruit. Slow! Why are these guys slow while every other team's players are sooooo fast? I don't get it lol

The secondary gets beat deep and can't stop outside screens. They can't chase anyone down from behind either.

 

[sjt18]

Not arguing stats, im arguing opinions. The opinion that teams like Toledo cant be faster than us is wrong IMO.

I watched a good portion of that game. Did you? Toledo is not talented. They played their assignments and frustrated Mizzou. Their DL's didn't get pushed into the secondary on every play either.

Our front four and lbs are slower than many WAC teams etc. We are slow, period. There are plenty of teams that are built around speed, currently we are not. Were like the toys on misfit island, you can still play with them but there's just a little something wrong with each of em. Merry Christmas

You are often pretty rational but here you are just making excuses.

There are plenty of reasons to take a wait and see approach with Jancek. There are plenty of reasons to question whether he puts players in position to use their talent... going back to his tenure at UGA.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

First, Missouri.
L'Damian Washington's career reception average is 17.7ypc. He's been getting behind people. Marcus Lucas was ranked as high as #9 nationally at WR and played in the USAAA game. Dorial Green-Beckham came out of HS as Rival's #1 ranked player in the country. Not WR mind you...player. (and sub-10.6 100m)

Second, speed vs stars
Why would anyone assume a "direct" relationship between speed and stars/ratings? One can be blindingly fast and not be a particularly good football player OR be fairly pedestrian in speed but still be quite productive if strong enough in other areas. Obviously faster is always better all else being equal but faster, in and of itself, doesn't mean squat anywhere other than a pure race.

Leonard Scott and Erik Locke agree with this.

 

[roster]

Ok people, so it seems to be a consensus that our D and some of our Offense are too slow and that's a huge reason why we get pummeled against good, solid opponents. So, tell me..why is Mizzou soooooo fast. They recruit 3, 4 and 5 star talent just like we have the past 5 years. Hell, I don't even know if they have had a top 10 recruiting class in years! Why are they sooooo fast and we soooooo slow?

Byron Moore....4 star Juco top DB that chose us over Miami, FL. Would he have been fast if he went to Miami? Why is he so slow? Justin Coleman....5 star stud recruit when came in. Why is he getting blazed so badly on every freakin play?! Brian Randolph...another 4 star recruit. Slow! Why are these guys slow while every other team's players are sooooo fast? I don't get it lol

EXACTLY!!!! The "slow" BS is to take the heat off the coaches. We are getting beat because our DBs never know who is suppose to cover who. If you have a pea for a brain you can see that.

Also, there are the offensive linemen who, no matter how bad the fk up they are never taken out for a few downs to think about how bad they just fked up.

 

[roster]

They're experienced in their scheme. We are still learning ours. And from what I could gather from the previous regime, they did little to no development of their own.

You might as well almost assume they are trying to develop players on the fly who should be further along than they are to begin with due to past coaching.

If they are "still learning" this late in the season then they are mentally challenged. That is a classic cop out excuse. The Auburn players are not "still learning" now are they??

 

[sjt18]

what team have you been watching the last 2 or 3 years? certainly not Tennessee. Their is a lot of speed issues and I have come to the conclusion that you have some type of an agenda because even Jimmy Hyams can tell their is lack of speed on this team.

My agenda is the truth.

Are there speed issues? Sure. Are they bad enough to rationalize what we saw Saturday? Not by a million miles. Much slower teams have done much better.

It doesn't help with all the bad angles that are being taken and it is something that I cannot explain, these kids have been doing angle drills since little league football.

You cannot explain it or you are avoiding one of the possible explanations for it? MOST players get to college and have issues with bad angles because they are playing on a completely different level than HS. It isn't rocket science and it doesn't take years to coach out of a player.

I think has to do with a lot of bad habits that weren't corrected during the fooley debacle and habits are a hard thing to change and youth has to do with some of it.

Blame Dooley is almost as pathetic as blame Bush on something this fundamental.

How does speed and talent suppose to coordinate here? talent has nothing to do with speed.

Speed is a component of talent. Coaching takes talent and puts it in a position to be successful. Pretty simple formula. Hard to do... not that tough of a concept though.

I love all this so called talent that we have on defense. where is it? who is it? 2 walkon freshman at Nickel back,

Mizzou starts a walk on at CB. A starting S was a former 2* recruit.

a starting DB that had no other SEC offers but us, ky and vandy.

Do you want to take a stab at how many MU players had SEC offers?

2 more walkons and a freshman in the secondary 2 deep. A safety who transferred from USC bc he couldn't play in the PAC 12.

GO look at the DB roster for the team that just beat UT. Look at their roster overall... how they ranked, who recruited them, walk ons....

Probably the worst LB corps in the SEC, only 2 LB's in the 2 deep had an SEC offer.

Again... Mizzou's guys have been coached up. None of their guys were elite recruits.

The Dline was suppose to be the strength of the Defense, 3 senior 4 stars who have never lived up to their hype, too many coaches? Systems? who knows. A former Olineman moved to dline bc he couldn't crack the 2 deep and a huge man who plays like a child.

So you completely excuse the coaching, right?

So quit spewing that talent bs without doing your homework.

I have. I simply have not eliminated poor coaching as a possible contributing factor the way you have. I am not deluded. This is not a roster that should have competed for the SEC. It is not a roster that was likely to beat Bama or Oregon. It IS a roster capable of a MUCH better showing against MU's "talent" than what we saw Saturday.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

My agenda is the truth.

Are there speed issues? Sure. Are they bad enough to rationalize what we saw Saturday? Not by a million miles. Much slower teams have done much better.

You cannot explain it or you are avoiding one of the possible explanations for it? MOST players get to college and have issues with bad angles because they are playing on a completely different level than HS. It isn't rocket science and it doesn't take years to coach out of a player.

Blame Dooley is almost as pathetic as blame Bush on something this fundamental.



Speed is a component of talent. Coaching takes talent and puts it in a position to be successful. Pretty simple formula. Hard to do... not that tough of a concept though.

Mizzou starts a walk on at CB. A starting S was a former 2* recruit. Do you want to take a stab at how many MU players had SEC offers? GO look at the DB roster for the team that just beat UT. Look at their roster overall... how they ranked, who recruited them, walk ons....

Again... Mizzou's guys have been coached up. None of their guys were elite recruits.

So you completely excuse the coaching, right?



I have. I simply have not eliminated poor coaching as a possible contributing factor the way you have. I am not deluded. This is not a roster that should have competed for the SEC. It is not a roster that was likely to beat Bama or Oregon. It IS a roster capable of a MUCH better showing against MU's "talent" than what we saw Saturday.

I said they played bad, it was pathetic and unacceptable the way they played but don't play the talent BS.

I thought we did some good thing against their secondary, with a starting Freshman QB making his first start on the road with young receivers. You are talking about 2 different things comparing their Defense to ours but what you should be comparing is the match ups of their Offense vs Our Defense.

would you not say their WR's are better then our DB's? would you not say their overall speed on offense was a whole lot better then our defense? I thought we had an advantage on the Line of scrimmage and no way we should have got manhandled but their skill people were heads and shoulders better then our LB's and DB's and without some pressure by our front four we did not stand a chance.

Missouri's secondary starts 3 seniors and a junior enough said.

I would sure hope Missouri is coached up they have been running the same system under Pinkel since 2001.

since 2010 they have signed 3 2 stars we have signed 8 2 stars so your argument of all those 2 stars and walkons don't add up.

I do not completely excuse the coaches but 9 games is not enough time to evaluate this staff, I think you have to give them a couple of years.

Like I said before I think after the last 3 weeks they had a letdown against Missouri

 

[LWSVOL]

Ok people, so it seems to be a consensus that our D and some of our Offense are too slow and that's a huge reason why we get pummeled against good, solid opponents. So, tell me..why is Mizzou soooooo fast. They recruit 3, 4 and 5 star talent just like we have the past 5 years. Hell, I don't even know if they have had a top 10 recruiting class in years! Why are they sooooo fast and we soooooo slow?

Byron Moore....4 star Juco top DB that chose us over Miami, FL. Would he have been fast if he went to Miami? Why is he so slow? Justin Coleman....5 star stud recruit when came in. Why is he getting blazed so badly on every freakin play?! Brian Randolph...another 4 star recruit. Slow! Why are these guys slow while every other team's players are sooooo fast? I don't get it lol

being a 4 or 5 star does not mean you have super speed. lots of 3 stars are fast..

What is the attrition rate between Missouri and Tennessee? I suspect if you check, Tennessee has lost a lot more players from those classes than Missouri.

you can't just take the rankings of the classes without factoring in attrition and development of the players. Development of Tennessee players has been stunted by having 4 head coaches and over 50 different assistants in the last 6 years.

 

[KingtUT]

I watched a good portion of that game. Did you? Toledo is not talented. They played their assignments and frustrated Mizzou. Their DL's didn't get pushed into the secondary on every play either.



You are often pretty rational but here you are just making excuses.

There are plenty of reasons to take a wait and see approach with Jancek. There are plenty of reasons to question whether he puts players in position to use their talent... going back to his tenure at UGA.

I'm not making excuses at all. I won't argue that at times we seemed out of position but just as many times we had someone there to make the play but couldn't. Like I said earlier, we don't have the type players we need to play the style defense we really want to. I think our intentions are to be a fast team overall but right now none of the pieces really fit. We kind of have the personnel to play a little bit of this and a little bit of that. If BJ can continue to recruit the way he is despite what happens on the field, we will be just fine in year 3. Jmo.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Don't leave out AJ Johnson. & Randolph. & Moore. & Coleman

Randolph hasn't disappointed and we can usually guess when he isn't out on the field because we are even more slow and confused.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I think depth has a lot to do with it.

For instance, AJ isn't too slow to be effective, but 80 snaps a game will wear anybody out and down throughout a season.

Not having any subs we can count on for at least a dozen plays or so a game seems to be exacerbating a lot of our problems on defense.