Im still not understanding the whole "we are too slow" slogan..

#126
#126
Toney could be playing for other SEC teams. They just wouldn't put him on man on the other teams fastest receiver. He can play the zone nickel with run support fine. Asking him to do more is a problem.
 
#127
#127
Spartacavolus said:
Toney could be playing for other SEC teams. They just wouldn't put him on man on the other teams fastest receiver. He can play the zone nickel with run support fine. Asking him to do more is a problem.
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Yes I agree and saying he would not play for other SEC teams may be harsh and I will edit but other teams are figuring that out and getting him into match ups that favor the offense.
 
#128
#128
volfan411 said:
Yes I agree and saying he would not play for other SEC teams may be harsh and I will edit but other teams are figuring that out and getting him into match ups that favor the offense.
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Yep. If you see man, it's not hard to isolate on Toney, AJ, Sapp or Coleman with a faster football player in space. We just really can hardly ever show man d, especially with no pressure. Our guys can guard for a few steps, so you better get to the qb right away. We can't.
 
#130
#130
I'm sorry but this thread reminds me of old volnation threads of Fulmer saying "we are too fast on defense, that's why we are out of position! We are over pursuing!" Lol
 
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#131
#131
HardKnoxVol said:
Once again, you're wrong. Get this through your head. Coleman was a 3 star on most sites and was not in the top 10. He was ranked in the 20s for defensive back.
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Amazing that stars only matter when they say another team has talent or when they say UT doesn't.

For instance, MU has ELITE talent... in spite of poor recruiting class and player rankings. Bama has ELITE talent as validated by their recruiting class and player rankings. But none of UT's guys are any good regardless of their class or individual rankings.
 
#132
#132
sjt18 said:
Amazing that stars only matter when they say another team has talent or when they say UT doesn't.

For instance, MU has ELITE talent... in spite of poor recruiting class and player rankings. Bama has ELITE talent as validated by their recruiting class and player rankings. But none of UT's guys are any good regardless of their class or individual rankings.
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I read a post earlier that I think hits the nail on the head about recruiting and that teams like Oregon and Missouri recruit to their system and do not worry about stars. Now I am sure they are not turning down 5 star players but they are not taking players who do not fit their system. I do not know if that applies to our defense or not but I do know if we are going to continue to play man coverage we have to have better linemen to put pressure on the QB and faster DB's.

I think if I had a complaint about the coaching at this point is that we have players with skill sets more towards a zone defense and we continue to play man and get beat.
 
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#133
#133
UTVolWarrior98 said:
Byron Moore....4 star Juco top DB that chose us over Miami, FL. Would he have been fast if he went to Miami? Why is he so slow? Justin Coleman....5 star stud recruit when came in. Why is he getting blazed so badly on every freakin play?! Brian Randolph...another 4 star recruit. Slow! Why are these guys slow while every other team's players are sooooo fast? I don't get it lol
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Both were 4 star recruits onrivals..Coleman was listed with 4.4 speed and Moore 4.5...recruits times are not generally very accurate...AJ was listed at 4.7 and I don't think he's that fast...in our power year, AJ would have bulked up to play DE...he's not really fast enought to be a LB...
 
#134
#134
Sarms58 said:
Both were 4 star recruits onrivals..Coleman was listed with 4.4 speed and Moore 4.5...recruits times are not generally very accurate...AJ was listed at 4.7 and I don't think he's that fast...in our power year, AJ would have bulked up to play DE...he's not really fast enought to be a LB...
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AJ would never play defensive end. He simply isn't D1 talent. Imagine how slow he would be if he bulked up more. Ideally you want your DE a little taller & faster than AJ could ever be.
 
#135
#135
govols/cc said:
AJ would never play defensive end. He simply isn't D1 talent. Imagine how slow he would be if he bulked up more. Ideally you want your DE a little taller & faster than AJ could ever be.
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Lol he's going to be a 2nd round pick when he comes out. You're a fool.
 
#136
#136
Spartacavolus said:
Yep. If you see man, it's not hard to isolate on Toney, AJ, Sapp or Coleman with a faster football player in space. We just really can hardly ever show man d, especially with no pressure. Our guys can guard for a few steps, so you better get to the qb right away. We can't.
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Sapp isn't slow for a LB and Coleman isn't "too" slow for a CB.

It IS hard to isolate players if you scheme against it. Wilcox did on a VERY consistent basis.
 
#137
#137
Giveem6 said:
I know the op is delusional but I don't give a damn who was what coming out of highschool. A major problem on our defense is this is the third different defense in three years.

Yes we don't have the speed to win a championship but with that amount of turnover it takes away from playing fast and leads to over thinking assignments.

I'm not trying to make excuses for us but if you don't look at the big picture you can't make a good judgment of our defense.

We are capable of playing fast and taking good assignments ala Georgia and SCe. Things will only get better in time I just hope it's the next three weeks.
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Sure, ratings don't always mean crap, but most of the time, they are pretty accurate. You want to see speed? Look at Alabama and Oregon's defensive players.....they are mainly 4 and 5 stars and their ratings are personifying. Our DBs are mainly 3 stars and those ratings are showing. Yes, we beat South Carolina (barely) and should've beat Georgia, but even they don't have the talent that Bama, Oregon, or LSU have. Our entire defense is too slow and it has showed against teams like Missouri, Oregon, Alabama, and even South Carolina. When Mike Davis got in open space, he was gone. When Maty Mauk got in open space, our linebackers and some of the DBs couldn't even touch him. Yes, I know that speed isn't everything, but it sure does help out a lot
 
#138
#138
volfan411 said:
I read a post earlier that I think hits the nail on the head about recruiting and that teams like Oregon and Missouri recruit to their system and do not worry about stars. Now I am sure they are not turning down 5 star players but they are not taking players who do not fit their system. I do not know if that applies to our defense or not but I do know if we are going to continue to play man coverage we have to have better linemen to put pressure on the QB and faster DB's.
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Mizzou "hits" once in awhile. They've been that way for awhile. Unless they start getting better talent and much more consistently then they will have no staying power. They will lose many of the players who are making it work right now like Sam, Wilson, Britt, Washington, Lucas, Gaines, and Ponder. Teams do hit on underrated guys sometimes... but you don't build a program on them that will be a perennial power. It really isn't legit to put them in with Oregon whose system is far more consistent.

I think if I had a complaint about the coaching at this point is that we have players with skill sets more towards a zone defense and we continue to play man and get beat.
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Possible. But playing zone does not necessarily mean a lack of athleticism won't be exposed.

If I were going to "complain", it would be that they do not seem to be nearly as good at disguising their D as Wilcox was or as creative in their playcalling.

This is a team that cannot afford to NOT take some risks defensively. I didn't see many blitzes the other night and the few I saw were either poorly designed, poorly executed, or both.
 
#139
#139
sjt18 said:
Sapp isn't slow for a LB and Coleman isn't "too" slow for a CB.

It IS hard to isolate players if you scheme against it. Wilcox did on a VERY consistent basis.
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I just think it's weird that Byron Moore is as slow as he is. We don't have any barnburners at defensive back. We need guys that are fast enough to be all over Alabama and Oregon type players consistently.....the 2010 Oregon game showed that (not entirely Wilcox's fault)
 
#140
#140
sjt18 said:
Mizzou "hits" once in awhile. They've been that way for awhile. Unless they start getting better talent and much more consistently then they will have no staying power. They will lose many of the players who are making it work right now like Sam, Wilson, Britt, Washington, Lucas, Gaines, and Ponder. Teams do hit on underrated guys sometimes... but you don't build a program on them that will be a perennial power. It really isn't legit to put them in with Oregon whose system is far more consistent.

Possible. But playing zone does not necessarily mean a lack of athleticism won't be exposed.

If I were going to "complain", it would be that they do not seem to be nearly as good at disguising their D as Wilcox was or as creative in their playcalling.

This is a team that cannot afford to NOT take some risks defensively. I didn't see many blitzes the other night and the few I saw were either poorly designed, poorly executed, or both.
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One thing Missouri can have going for them at times is that they get kids out of Texas (Josey for example who is pretty quick)
 
#141
#141
I think people get in a big hurry and say current players are "slow". In some cases that is true... but it would be much more true to say that there aren't enough fast players who have the skills to help the team.

R Jones, Williams, and M Foreman are supposedly fast guys... but they can't get on the field. If you were the DC, had a speed issue on your D, and had faster guys on the bench... would getting those guys ready to play be a pretty big priority?
 
#143
#143
sjt18 said:
This is a team that cannot afford to NOT take some risks defensively. I didn't see many blitzes the other night and the few I saw were either poorly designed, poorly executed, or both.
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I haven't seen a decent blitz scheme all year. According to NCAA stats, we are tied for 105th nationally with 12 sacks for the year.
 
#144
#144
HardKnoxVol said:
One thing Missouri can have going for them at times is that they get kids out of Texas (Josey for example who is pretty quick)
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They've always depended on TX. Funny thing is... their fans think that leaving the Big 12 cost them with those kids. They think they'll have to open up FL and GA to get players now.
 
#145
#145
sjt18 said:
Sapp isn't slow for a LB and Coleman isn't "too" slow for a CB.

It IS hard to isolate players if you scheme against it. Wilcox did on a VERY consistent basis.
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Wilcox seldom played man. He didn't have talent to allow an isolation, which is why he played basic bend but don't break. Sapp is too slow to have the slot in man coverage with no help.
 
#146
#146
These are the class rankings over the last 5 yrs according to Rivals.

2013 OU 22 UT 21 UM 41

2012 OU 16 UT 17 UM 31

2011 OU 9 UT 13 UM 48

2010 OU 13 UT 9 UM 21

2009 OU 32 UT 10 UM 40

Mizzou 1 5 star and 4 4 stars on their entire roster. Hard to believe they have more speed than us. The just play more decisive.
 
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#147
#147
So tired of people bringing up rankings and track 40 times to debate football game speed.
Just watch them run away or go after someone and make your own decision. It should be obvious when we can't run away from anyone and are always getting run away from, but I guess not. I assume the bad angles always mentioned means we have enough speed as well.
 
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#148
#148
sjt18 said:
Sapp isn't slow for a LB and Coleman isn't "too" slow for a CB.

It IS hard to isolate players if you scheme against it. Wilcox did on a VERY consistent basis.
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What was different about Wilcox's defense compared to the one we run now? We saw improvement the first year under his but not so much with this one. Anybody know?
 
#150
#150
darkgable said:
What was different about Wilcox's defense compared to the one we run now? We saw improvement the first year under his but not so much with this one. Anybody know?
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WTF are you talking about l? Our defense has been 100 times better this season.
 
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