Im still not understanding the whole "we are too slow" slogan..

[UTVolWarrior98]

I cant believe this thread is still going strong! lol

 

[HardKnoxVol]

I just don't understand how McCullers is not absolutely ripping through offensive lines. I mean, maybe not ripping through them all the time, but he should be causing double teams that allow our linebackers or other linemen gaps to run through. A guy that big should be able to push down a 290 lb center....

 

[HardKnoxVol]

Texas is overrated. I'd rather have our proximity to Georgia anyday.

Tell that to Oregon...

 

[1972 Grad]

Gave up 51 last season and 31 this season I would say that is improvement and last season the D had an offense to help them out and keep them off the field. So I would think we seen improvement although not the amount most would like.

I cannot remember how many they gave up in the overtimes in that game.

28 in regulation and 23 in overtime.

 

[BanditVol]

ranked teams at Cincy... he only played THREE.
I AM saying it to open the eyes of you who are so determined to insist that talent is the only problem and who would deny the talent that UT DOES HAVE.

LOL! Reread my post. I acknowledge that our four year recrutng rankings are in the NINTIETH PERCENTILE nationally. That means we are in the TOP TEN PERCENT. That means WE DO HAVE TALENT. Maybe your reading comprehension skills are not so great? And yet, we are only SIXTH in the SEC....and that matters.

This is NOT a roster incapable of being more competitive vs Bama and Oregon. This IS a roster with enough talent to beat Mizzou and that should have NEVER have been blown out 31-3.

I agree, we should not have lost as badly to Mizzou as we did, but I do think we should have been the underdog. We started a true frosh for the first time on the road and he turned the ball over three times...that was the reason it was a blowout. As for bammer and Oregon....could have played better agree. But they ARE the no. 1 and 2 teams in the country, and Butch IS in his first year. Let me point out again what has been endlessly said... even Saban was 6-6 in his first year and had more talent. Shula was a bad coach (though still better than Dooley) but did recruit pretty well. I don't expect to be competitive with the no 1 and 2 team in the country right off the bat...gimme a break.

Which would be a good point if MU had thrown for over 300 yds.... They didn't. UT's secondary held up well. Early on they forced 3 and outs then MU adjusted to running the ball alot more. Mauk was 12-25 for 163 yds. Without the big time bust... they limit the guy to pawltry 127 yds passing.

Yards don't matter as much as the fact that we got absolutely TORCHED for three TDs. One was a complete embarrassment and breakdown, another was very poorly covered and the third was kind of just a good play by Mizzou. But IMO two of the three should not have happened. What matters is POINTS, which is why QB efficiency emphasizes TDs so much. Yards are really not that big a deal. 300+ yards, zero TDs and two ints is a great day for the D. 163 yards, 3 TDs and no ints...not so much.

Instead, MU lined up and ran over UT's D. They didn't out run them... they ran over them.

No excuse for our run D...it was pathetic. I never said this was a good effort by our football team. But I stand by my assertion that we were out-talented in pass D vs. pass offense. Three WRs with NFL potential (I am including the soph) vs. us starting a walkon at nickel! Big difference no matter how you slice it.

UT didn't get torched by their WR's. I'm not sure why you keep dwelling on that as if saying it over and over will make it true. Mauk was under 50% and even with the bust... threw for only 163 yds.

But I guess I should thank you now for indirectly acknowledging the fact that MU did not beat UT on the strength of what should have been their only favorable matchup.

I have already addressed this....two easy passing TDs and one that was hard but not impossible to defend.

And all the early scores by Mizzou were threw (pun intended ) the air. The only running TD was in the second half long after the game was over. Yes, I think I proved my point very well! Please get over the passing yardage....if it was for three TDs that's all that matters.

Or do teams get points for passing yards? Are you stuck in Fantasy Football mode maybe?

I have said this before, but there is a reason they use pass efficiency ratings that uses yards per pass, ints, and TDs. It's because yardage by itself doesn't mean SQUAT.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Guys. I know and understand why it is attractive to blame everything on talent or speed or something like that. It is far more uncomfortable to consider that coaching might be at issue too. But remember, Jancek has a history in the SEC. That along with the "measureables" of many of UT's players keeps me from just buying the "no talent" excuse.

We all understand that coaches make errors and bad calls every game. Most of us can also figure out that if i can't catch a guy but he can catch me, that I might just be slower. Its really a simple point that you have made complicated by looking at hs stats and bs 40 times as a comparison. Its coaching at some points but the constant is the lack of speed. We have guys in the right places more times than not. Florida backup qb run left for a td is one example. We had 3 guys that read the play and were in the right place. Qb made one move and scored with ease because our speed and quickness sucks.

 

[sjt18]

LOL! Reread my post. I acknowledge that our four year recrutng rankings are in the NINTIETH PERCENTILE nationally. That means we are in the TOP TEN PERCENT. That means WE DO HAVE TALENT. Maybe your reading comprehension skills are not so great? And yet, we are only SIXTH in the SEC....and that matters.

Sixth in the SEC.... means you have more talent than Mizzou, right?

I agree, we should not have lost as badly to Mizzou as we did, but I do think we should have been the underdog. We started a true frosh for the first time on the road and he turned the ball over three times...that was the reason it was a blowout.

No it wasn't. And the reason wasn't "speed" or MU's tall WR's either. Their well coached OL's and DL's with less talent than UT's OL and DL... DOMINATED. THAT is the reason for the blow out. It wasn't the 163 yds passing. It wasn't their pass D. It was 339 yds to 94 yds rushing with MOST of UT's rushing yds coming from that Fr QB running for his life. MU had more rushing yds than UT had total yds.

And remember, UT's OL and DL are the most senior, developed, "talented", and deep groups on the team. Please don't try to tell me that coaching is not a factor in how badly MU owned the LOS.

Let me point out again what has been endlessly said... even Saban was 6-6 in his first year and had more talent.

He did not have more talent and why point to the exception rather than the rule? The rule is that when a quality coach takes over a program both performance and records show immediate improvement almost every time. When that doesn't happen... you usually get a Dooley.

Yards don't matter as much....

Yes they do. It just doesn't help your case so you'd like to dismiss it as a factor.

One was a complete embarrassment and breakdown, another was very poorly covered and the third was kind of just a good play by Mizzou.

Why are the same or worse mistakes being made in the 9th game as earlier in the season? Hint: It isn't just players and depth... or speed.

Yards are really not that big a deal.

Yeah... they are. You'd just rather avoid anything that might call into question the coaching performance for that game and the development of the available talent to date.

Again, I am not condemning the staff as a "failure" now or even suggesting such a judgment should be made any time soon. But they laid an egg in that game and there are players with talent who are not playing to their potential both on the bench and on the field.

No excuse for our run D...it was pathetic. I never said this was a good effort by our football team. But I stand by my assertion that we were out-talented in pass D vs. pass offense.

Sorry but that's inane. Their QB was under 50% and had only 163 yds. The pass D didn't lose the game. If they had won 17-3 with UT having a respectable defensive effort then I would have said "good effort, tough breaks for Dobbs but he'll get better". But there are strong indications of coaching issues in that performance.

Three WRs with NFL potential (I am including the soph) vs. us starting a walkon at nickel! Big difference no matter how you slice it.

And when they were blunted by UT's secondary, MU went to their run game and dominated then sprinkled in passes here and there.

They ran the ball 54 times and threw it 25 times! UT wasn't beaten because the secondary is too slow.

Your mental gymnastics are impressive but this is NOT a team that is playing to the potential of its talent.


Someone was impressed the other day and even started a thread about how Jones had not made excuses et al... then he comes out today with an obvious exaggeration "we have zero depth". To the degree that is true... it is partly true because guys who could have helped have not been developed.

Half the answer is better players. The other half is elite coaching. The first half seems to be coming along. I'm still looking for evidence of the second half.

 

[sjt18]

We all understand that coaches make errors and bad calls every game. Most of us can also figure out that if i can't catch a guy but he can catch me, that I might just be slower. Its really a simple point that you have made complicated by looking at hs stats and bs 40 times as a comparison. Its coaching at some points but the constant is the lack of speed. We have guys in the right places more times than not. Florida backup qb run left for a td is one example. We had 3 guys that read the play and were in the right place. Qb made one move and scored with ease because our speed and quickness sucks.

Ridiculous excuse making... nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not even talking about errors and bad calls. I'm talking about an OL and DL who seem to be regressing. I'm talking about guys who supposedly have "speed" that somehow can't get coached up enough to contribute. I'm talking about TE's who aren't contributing. I'm talking about gameplans that do not work. I'm talking about at least an appearance of guys not playing well or giving their best effort who aren't getting yanked.


And frankly... I am still nervous that a staff that only played 3 ranked teams while at Cincy (losing to all three) and beating teams with a combined record of 132-164.... might not be up to the level of competition UT faces. Can you tell me what Jones' signature win was at Cincy?

 

[1972 Grad]

Ridiculous excuse making... nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not even talking about errors and bad calls. I'm talking about an OL and DL who seem to be regressing. I'm talking about guys who supposedly have "speed" that somehow can't get coached up enough to contribute. I'm talking about TE's who aren't contributing. I'm talking about gameplans that do not work. I'm talking about at least an appearance of guys not playing well or giving their best effort who aren't getting yanked.


And frankly... I am still nervous that a staff that only played 3 ranked teams while at Cincy (losing to all three) and beating teams with a combined record of 132-164.... might not be up to the level of competition UT faces. Can you tell me what Jones' signature win was at Cincy?

Well, he did play Dooley (the worst coach ever in history) in 2011. Surely he won that one , didn't he?

 

[Spartacavolus]

Ridiculous excuse making... nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not even talking about errors and bad calls. I'm talking about an OL and DL who seem to be regressing. I'm talking about guys who supposedly have "speed" that somehow can't get coached up enough to contribute. I'm talking about TE's who aren't contributing. I'm talking about gameplans that do not work. I'm talking about at least an appearance of guys not playing well or giving their best effort who aren't getting yanked.


And frankly... I am still nervous that a staff that only played 3 ranked teams while at Cincy (losing to all three) and beating teams with a combined record of 132-164.... might not be up to the level of competition UT faces. Can you tell me what Jones' signature win was at Cincy?

Why would I give a **** what his signature win with Cindy is? His sig win here is sc and the first one we have had in years. And TE's? We have one and he has the knee of an old man.
Pointing out accurate statements isn't making excuses. Posting that coaches make mistakes, and we have a slow defense is accurate. Denying we don't have a slow d is pure stupidity, and your repetitiveness is boring.

 

[volfan411]

Ridiculous excuse making... nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not even talking about errors and bad calls. I'm talking about an OL and DL who seem to be regressing. I'm talking about guys who supposedly have "speed" that somehow can't get coached up enough to contribute. I'm talking about TE's who aren't contributing. I'm talking about gameplans that do not work. I'm talking about at least an appearance of guys not playing well or giving their best effort who aren't getting yanked.


And frankly... I am still nervous that a staff that only played 3 ranked teams while at Cincy (losing to all three) and beating teams with a combined record of 132-164.... might not be up to the level of competition UT faces. Can you tell me what Jones' signature win was at Cincy?

I agree with you on a lot of your points but the OL was not that good last year and were outright terrible in run blocking. Tyler Bray made them look better in pass blocking than the really were with his quick release.

The DL was atrocious last year so I am not sure how anyone can say they have regressed nor improved. I will defend them a bit in that there is no depth and they have been forced to play a lot of snaps.

On the TE's we were starting to see them contribute prior to the Worley injury and I think they would have became more involved if not for his injury. I am sure the offense has been drastically scaled back as Dobbs was the 4th string QB not that long ago.

The one point I agree with you on strongly is that we have seen most of these players on defense make the same mistakes for 2 seasons. If they are not getting better in practice and working on their mistakes then put in some one else if for nothing else but a wake up call to the starters.

 

[volfan411]

Went back and checked and so far this season we are averaging most yards rushing per game and more yards per carry than last season. This seasons are to this point and last seasons are for the year so when the season is over we will see but at this point the run blocking seems to be better.

Where we are really stinking it up is passing yards per game we are down nearly 145 yards per game but that has more to do with 2 NFL caliber receivers and a NFL QB.

 

[fur burglar]

I guess what I am trying to figure out is why we are too slow when most of these players were 4 or 5* recruits when we landed them. Where do you find these so called "blazsters" at? It just seems like every other team out there is fast and we are not. Would they all be faster on different teams? Is it the coaching? Development? Should they have not been recruited by an SEC team like Tennessee?

Dooley valued size over speed

 

[MOOOOONEY]

Ridiculous excuse making... nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not even talking about errors and bad calls. I'm talking about an OL and DL who seem to be regressing. I'm talking about guys who supposedly have "speed" that somehow can't get coached up enough to contribute. I'm talking about TE's who aren't contributing. I'm talking about gameplans that do not work. I'm talking about at least an appearance of guys not playing well or giving their best effort who aren't getting yanked.


And frankly... I am still nervous that a staff that only played 3 ranked teams while at Cincy (losing to all three) and beating teams with a combined record of 132-164.... might not be up to the level of competition UT faces. Can you tell me what Jones' signature win was at Cincy?

Here is my problem.

The game plan that almost beat Georgia and beat SC didn't work?

An Oline that even last year with 5 future NFL players on Offense, that was not dominate in run blocking but with virtually no passing game this year is averaging more rushing yards, and you do not believe they have improved? they are regressing?

A defense that gave up 36.2 points per game last year, is now giving up 25.1 but the defense has not improved?

If this staff had Bray, CP, Hunter, Rivera, Z Rogers, and Thomas and went to Missouri and did not score but 3 points then they should be fired but they had a freshman QB making his first start on the road with 2 FR and a soph receiver starting.

After losing all that offensive talent from last year that could not get 6 wins could not beat a ranked, this staff takes a very less talented offense and virtually the same defense and beats SC.

if you cannot see improvement from last year to this year, either you do not know as much about football as you think or you have an agenda against this coaching staff or your a Dooley lover or a troll.

What do you recommend we do? fire Jones and his staff after 9 games?

Missouri beat us on both sides of the ball nobody is freaking happy about that, but its Auburn week, are you going to be in Neyland stadium Saturday? probably not.

Give this staff a chance. OH btw Wilcox defense in 2010 was blown out by Oregon, Alabama, and Georgia

 

[ESPNHATESUS]

We are slow look at our roster besides a few four an three star player la we have WALK ONS playing. They are walk ons for a reason. Our corners are bad besides Sutton because of this we have too many blown assignments and lack of speed they may run a 4.6 and when you are going against a guy who runs a 4.4 you are slower. We have depth just not quality depth that is why you are seeing more defense class this year being recruited for that depth. This upcoming class will not redshirt I guarantee that.

 

[sjt18]

Why would I give a **** what his signature win with Cindy is?

Maybe because it would validate his ability to beat good teams. He didn't face that many at Cincy... I'm asking how many of the really good ones he faced were wins. If you want to deny the possibility that coaching is a significant issue and claim that everything is a lack of talent... then anything that qualifies his ability to win big games is relevant.

His sig win here is sc and the first one we have had in years.

That was a good win but is USCe really world beaters this year?

Pointing out accurate statements isn't making excuses.

It is when you are selective in what "accurate statements" you point out... omitting anything that might suggest that the TALENT on THIS team has not been coached to its potential. I have agreed that its potential was not winning the East or the SEC. So don't even try that straw man... AGAIN.

Posting that coaches make mistakes, and we have a slow defense is accurate. Denying we don't have a slow d is pure stupidity, and your repetitiveness is boring.

Boring or not you CANNOT answer it because you WILL not allow yourself to be open to answers that are uncomfortable to you. Being slow or not DID NOT cost UT the MU game. To deny THAT is pure stupidity. When someone lines up and runs the ball 50 times right over your front 7.... that's not an indication you are too slow.

And again, I am NOT talking about "mistakes". I am talking about a lack of developing and utilizing the existing talent. There are apparently "fast" players who are not being coached up to a point of being able to contribute. Why? What is the excuse for being able to get your talent ready to play after being in charge for 10 months?

I will gladly give credit where it is due. Jones and staff did a very nice job vs USCe and UGA. I have even saluted him for the gutsy call to try Peterman vs UF. But the MU game revealed poor game week/day coaching AND a lack of development of available talent.

Oh, and the busted coverage that left Washington wide open... that wasn't the first time that pattern has been busted by Toney. The first time... blame the player. After that... the blame starts shifting to the coach. And NO... it wasn't because of "speed". If he'd run a 4.2 40 and made the same mistake it would have been just as wide open.

I won't blame the coaches for talent they don't have. I will criticize when they don't coach the talent they have.

 

[Dan Federman]

Ok people, so it seems to be a consensus that our D and some of our Offense are too slow and that's a huge reason why we get pummeled against good, solid opponents. So, tell me..why is Mizzou soooooo fast. They recruit 3, 4 and 5 star talent just like we have the past 5 years. Hell, I don't even know if they have had a top 10 recruiting class in years! Why are they sooooo fast and we soooooo slow?

Byron Moore....4 star Juco top DB that chose us over Miami, FL. Would he have been fast if he went to Miami? Why is he so slow? Justin Coleman....5 star stud recruit when came in. Why is he getting blazed so badly on every freakin play?! Brian Randolph...another 4 star recruit. Slow! Why are these guys slow while every other team's players are sooooo fast? I don't get it lol

Have you watched us play the last couple of years? We are slow.

 

[Dan Federman]

Maybe because it would validate his ability to beat good teams. He didn't face that many at Cincy... I'm asking how many of the really good ones he faced were wins. If you want to deny the possibility that coaching is a significant issue and claim that everything is a lack of talent... then anything that qualifies his ability to win big games is relevant.

That was a good win but is USCe really world beaters this year? It is when you are selective in what "accurate statements" you point out... omitting anything that might suggest that the TALENT on THIS team has not been coached to its potential. I have agreed that its potential was not winning the East or the SEC. So don't even try that straw man... AGAIN.

Boring or not you CANNOT answer it because you WILL not allow yourself to be open to answers that are uncomfortable to you. Being slow or not DID NOT cost UT the MU game. To deny THAT is pure stupidity. When someone lines up and runs the ball 50 times right over your front 7.... that's not an indication you are too slow.

And again, I am NOT talking about "mistakes". I am talking about a lack of developing and utilizing the existing talent. There are apparently "fast" players who are not being coached up to a point of being able to contribute. Why? What is the excuse for being able to get your talent ready to play after being in charge for 10 months?

I will gladly give credit where it is due. Jones and staff did a very nice job vs USCe and UGA. I have even saluted him for the gutsy call to try Peterman vs UF. But the MU game revealed poor game week/day coaching AND a lack of development of available talent.

Oh, and the busted coverage that left Washington wide open... that wasn't the first time that pattern has been busted by Toney. The first time... blame the player. After that... the blame starts shifting to the coach. And NO... it wasn't because of "speed". If he'd run a 4.2 40 and made the same mistake it would have been just as wide open.

I won't blame the coaches for talent they don't have. I will criticize when they don't coach the talent they have.

So you don't think this team is better now than they were at the beginning of the year? I think it's obvious they are getting coached up.

 

[Spartacavolus]

And the thread above this one discusses how many walkons we have playing in the 2 deep on d. To assume they are going to be as fast as highly ranked dbs and opposing wrs is ridiculous.
We have 2 walkons at nickel, yet are saying they aren't slow when compared to other sec dbs. What a joke.

 

[Spartacavolus]

So you don't think this team is better now than they were at the beginning of the year? I think it's obvious they are getting coached up.

He's a longwinded, emotional basketcase that can't understand we are an undermanned team.
I'd like to hear that clowns gameplan on the road at #2, then on the road at #1 and at #9 on back to back weeks. I called the mizzou blowout ahead because their qb, rbs and wrs all had more football speed than every player on d. It was debated then, and even after watching them run by every player we have on multiple occassions during the blowout, its still being debated.

 

[sjt18]

So you don't think this team is better now than they were at the beginning of the year? I think it's obvious they are getting coached up.

They did NOT play better in the last two games than the did at the beginning of the season and played worse than the two previous games.

 

[tvols75]

It's funny seeing SJT, who bashed anyone who questioned Dooley and even went as far as saying by doing so we were helping other teams in recruiting, now bashing Butch. You know the guy who has actually won in his career. Keep it up there, Vincent.

 

[VolGee4]

My bad..thought VA like Brent Vinson was. Still, he was a top 10 DB recruit coming out of HS.

This thread is an epic fail. None of these guys are close to how you are describing them. Coleman was top 20 at his position in HS per Rivals. Moore and Randolph were not speedsters when recruited. But when you play two walk-ons at nickelback, you are going to have problems.

Yes, part of speed is the pursuit angle, and I am pretty confident that the coaches don't teach bad angles. The players have to understand that, and it is apparent we have some players who just don't grasp it. It is quite evident that we need more speed in the backend of our defense, and this next class should help that.

 

[sjt18]

And the thread above this one discusses how many walkons we have playing in the 2 deep on d. To assume they are going to be as fast as highly ranked dbs and opposing wrs is ridiculous.
We have 2 walkons at nickel, yet are saying they aren't slow when compared to other sec dbs. What a joke.

Again... for the 1000th time... no one is asking the coaches to wave a magic wand and create talent that isn't there. But those walkons are playing in front of scholarship players. At least some of those scholarship players were reputed to have physical ability when they arrived.

Those nickel backs specifically are playing in front of several scholarship DB's that have MORE speed.

And they are NOT slow compared to the secondary of the team that just thumped UT by 4 TD's... and once again... the speed of the secondary or lack thereof was NOT the deciding factor in that game. Why do you all keep ignoring that FACT? They ran the ball 54 times and avg'd around 6 ypc and did NOT have a bunch of big runs. They lined up and shoved it right down UT's throat... speed had little to do with it.

And... admittedly ad nauseum but I keep repeating because you all keep ignoring... the secondary didn't cause the game to be out of hand. In fact, the secondary's good play early on caused MU to adjust to running the ball alot more. The secondary was largely responsible for MU opening with two short unsuccessful drives.

 

[secking]

Bad angles on defense is the worst issue. Plus the fact we seem to play 10 yards off any other team's receiver until the ball is in the air. Then we break on the ball and miss the tackle. We are just bad in the secondary.

It's called the Willie special. Ask Ga fans or Ok fans.