I'm with Butch for the long haul...

[C-town Vol]

Maybe this is not the forum for this but I speak from a recruiting stand point...(lengthy post)

1. I feel confident that Butch/his staff (overall) are good to great recruiters.

2. Our roster was ridiculously depleted.

3. Quick fixes with JUCOs are a 50/50 proposition at best---with our recent trend and the lack of depth the odds are more like 30/70 that a JUCO will come in and be enough to really make a huge difference. Basically, you cannot rely on JUCOs to fix your problems.

4. 50% plus of our roster is underclassmen

5. Realistically it will take Butch 4 full recruiting classes to have an adequate top-half of the SEC level roster. Maybe 5 depending on how you view his first class, much of which he inherited.

6. Butch and his staff seem to strike a good balance of being demanding of their players and relational with their players which will buy him time before he could potentially "lose the players" because of a lack of big time wins.

7. Simply put, barring a catastrophic 3-4 win season where the wheels fall off and he "loses the team"...I feel it would be foolish of the fan base and damaging for the program to give Butch anything less than 5 years to turn this around. All of the "he better get it together" crowd should get their feet more firmly planted in reality (of course fandom completely defies reality at its core)

8. Finally, I have been aided in coming to this conclusion after watching the Steve Spurrier documentary (The Believer). He came to a South Carolina program that, although we don't want to admit it, looked a lot like what Butch inherited at UT. Obviously UT has WAY more history, money and backing...however, from a roster stand point...very similar if not worse at UT. It took Spurrier 6-7 years to really get things rolling at USCe...and that is Steve Spurrier...one of the greatest coaches in SEC history.

Sorry for the long post...I'm intrigued by the thought...maybe it is useless to you guys.

 

[jacobyvoln27]

We will compete in the next two years if we have the right man under center!

 

[92volalum]

again i wish u were my boss n paid me 3m a year and gave/me 5 years to have a winning record.... .. most people have no clue what a great coach can do with avg talent..

heck why/we r at it lets give him a raise every year so mich doesnt steal a coach with a losing record away.

 

[PrattvilleVol]

again i wish u were my boss n paid me 3m a year and gave/me 5 years to have a winning record.... .. most people have no clue what a great coach can do with avg talent..

heck why/we r at it lets give him a raise every year so mich doesnt steal a coach with a losing record away.

See Bill Snider at KSU

 

[jlindsa4]

again i wish u were my boss n paid me 3m a year and gave/me 5 years to have a winning record.... .. most people have no clue what a great coach can do with avg talent..

heck why/we r at it lets give him a raise every year so mich doesnt steal a coach with a losing record away.

Okay let's not pay him a decent salary and ask him to build the program from the ground up and see what we get?

 

[musolfmj]

I agree Butch needs to be given time. I also believe, call me out if wrong, at this stage of the game he is recruiting at a higher level than Spurrier was at the same stage.

What might still get Vol Nation in an uproar sooner than later would be if he continues to recruit so well but does not coach them up, have the right assistants, etc. I do not think that will be the case, but as many will point out, the verdict is not in on that part of his game and Spurrier is obviously one of the greats.

 

[volfanstuckinga]

5 years doesn't fly when Malzahn is in a final in year 1, Jimbo wins a title in year 4, James Franklin wins 9 back to back in less than 5, etc. Yeah 5 years is NOT going to cut it. In 3 he needs to be at 8-9 minimum

 

[C-town Vol]

again i wish u were my boss n paid me 3m a year and gave/me 5 years to have a winning record.... .. most people have no clue what a great coach can do with avg talent..

heck why/we r at it lets give him a raise every year so mich doesnt steal a coach with a losing record away.

hahaha - I appreciate the quick over reaction. At no point did I mention his Win/Loss record although I did allude to having top of the SEC talent. Basically, all of us want to compete for the SEC Championship. That is our goal here (understanding that winning the SEC likely puts us in the playoffs). I should have been more clear in my thoughts...I think legitimately and consistently competing for the SEC could be a 5-year process. By all means, if we get two more years into this (this year and next) and we still don't have a winning record then I would venture to say he will not be the guy to win an SEC title. However, I still think it would be rash and unwise to pull the plug after next year even if that were the case. For the long term of the program we need some semblance of stability. However, again, I should have been more clear...I was typing with the general assumption that this year and next would net at least 1-2 bowl appearances and 7-8 wins next season.

 

[C-town Vol]

See Bill Snider at KSU

See Big XII vs. the current SEC

When is the last time a team with average talent won the SEC? I'm not being sarcastic...legit question...LSU in 2001?

 

[PrattvilleVol]

5 years doesn't fly when Malzahn is in a final in year 1, Jimbo wins a title in year 4, James Franklin wins 9 back to back in less than 5, etc. Yeah 5 years is NOT going to cut it. In 3 he needs to be at 8-9 minimum

Wrong... Malzahn went to the NC with his recruits in technically year 3. Jimbo has been at FSU for 7 years and HC for 4 years. Jimbo also won the NC with his players and inherited a fully stocked program. Butch inherited a bare cupboard and this is technically year 1.5 for him. 2016-17.

 

[C-town Vol]

I agree Butch needs to be given time. I also believe, call me out if wrong, at this stage of the game he is recruiting at a higher level than Spurrier was at the same stage.

What might still get Vol Nation in an uproar sooner than later would be if he continues to recruit so well but does not coach them up, have the right assistants, etc. I do not think that will be the case, but as many will point out, the verdict is not in on that part of his game and Spurrier is obviously one of the greats.

Spurrier's success at Florida and even Duke certainly bought him more time than most would get. But Spurrier was winning 7-8 games a year before they really turned the corner. I anticipate it could be the same for 2-3 years with Butch.

 

[C-town Vol]

Wrong... Malzahn won the NC with his recruits in technically year 3. Jimbo has been at FSU for 7 years and HC for 4 years. Jimbo also won the NC with his players and inherited a fully stocked program. Butch inherited a bare cupboard and this is technically year 1.5for him. 2016-17.

Exactly...Jimbo and Malzahn are two completely different situations. Jimbo is an interesting case...it took 4 years of him as the head guy to win a title. Before that there was the thought that he was under achieving.

 

[bobbyutvol]

Coach Jones has put some fire and passion back into Tennessee football. We must remember the team he got when he was named coach. AWFUL weak as I have ever seen Tennessee football team. He started from scratch and has done a great job. He must be given at least 4 or 5 years to rebuild. We can't keep changing coaches, remember we tried that. Blame Mike Hamilton for all of this. I fully support Butch. Go Vols

 

[jman9865]

5 years doesn't fly when Malzahn is in a final in year 1, Jimbo wins a title in year 4, James Franklin wins 9 back to back in less than 5, etc. Yeah 5 years is NOT going to cut it. In 3 he needs to be at 8-9 minimum

Because getting a whole new staff after next year will be sooooo productive. [/sarcastic blue font]

 

[C-town Vol]

Because getting a whole new staff after next year will be sooooo productive. [/sarcastic blue font]

Exactly, what seems to be lost on some of our fan base is that the primary reason we are in such bad shape is the instability. Was Dooley bad? YES...but he was not helped at all by Kiffin's abrupt departure.

Truth is, although some will lose their minds over this statement...this program would likely be better off if Fulmer would have remained coach until he was ready to retire. We possibly could have competed for a championship with Boyd/Petty and QB. But that is an old argument I probably shouldn't have mentioned.

 

[butchna]

Exactly, what seems to be lost on some of our fan base is that the primary reason we are in such bad shape is the instability. Was Dooley bad? YES...but he was not helped at all by Kiffin's abrupt departure.

Truth is, although some will lose their minds over this statement...this program would likely be better off if Fulmer would have remained coach until he was ready to retire. We possibly could have competed for a championship with Boyd/Petty and QB. But that is an old argument I probably shouldn't have mentioned.

No!...it helped...a lot! k:

 

[bbeacham]

For crying out loud, let's see how all of this plays out! We could win many games, which we aren't supposed to win by any stretch of the imagination. CBJ walked into a big pile of horse manure left by Lame Kiffin and Do-nothing Dookey!!!! Butch Jones is the best we have had in a long time and I, too, am with him for the long haul!! Go Big Orange!

 

[C-town Vol]

No!...it helped...a lot! k:

ya lost me...haha

 

[Falcons02]

Maybe this is not the forum for this but I speak from a recruiting stand point...(lengthy post)

1. I feel confident that Butch/his staff (overall) are good to great recruiters.

2. Our roster was ridiculously depleted.

3. Quick fixes with JUCOs are a 50/50 proposition at best---with our recent trend and the lack of depth the odds are more like 30/70 that a JUCO will come in and be enough to really make a huge difference. Basically, you cannot rely on JUCOs to fix your problems.

4. 50% plus of our roster is underclassmen

5. Realistically it will take Butch 4 full recruiting classes to have an adequate top-half of the SEC level roster. Maybe 5 depending on how you view his first class, much of which he inherited.

6. Butch and his staff seem to strike a good balance of being demanding of their players and relational with their players which will buy him time before he could potentially "lose the players" because of a lack of big time wins.

7. Simply put, barring a catastrophic 3-4 win season where the wheels fall off and he "loses the team"...I feel it would be foolish of the fan base and damaging for the program to give Butch anything less than 5 years to turn this around. All of the "he better get it together" crowd should get their feet more firmly planted in reality (of course fandom completely defies reality at its core)

8. Finally, I have been aided in coming to this conclusion after watching the Steve Spurrier documentary (The Believer). He came to a South Carolina program that, although we don't want to admit it, looked a lot like what Butch inherited at UT. Obviously UT has WAY more history, money and backing...however, from a roster stand point...very similar if not worse at UT. It took Spurrier 6-7 years to really get things rolling at USCe...and that is Steve Spurrier...one of the greatest coaches in SEC history.

Sorry for the long post...I'm intrigued by the thought...maybe it is useless to you guys.

Will these threads ever stop? Here, I am going to make a template for the Taylor Swift-esque Vols out there:

Dear Butch:

We know you inherited a grease fire. We love you... please don't go to Michigan!

World's finest peanut butter... all you can eat. Just don't eat too much or you'll give new meaning to "brick by brick".

Love XOXOXO,
_______________


Feel free to print that bad boy out and make copies.

 

[C-town Vol]

Will these threads ever stop? Here, I am going to make a template for the Taylor Swift-esque Vols out there:

Dear Butch:

We know you inherited a grease fire. We love you... please don't go to Michigan!

World's finest peanut butter... all you can eat. Just don't eat too much or you'll give new meaning to "brick by brick".

Love XOXOXO,
_______________


Feel free to print that bad boy out and make copies.

First:
It is humorous to me that you opened with "will these threads ever stop" yet you felt so compelled to comment.

Second:
truthfully...the thought of Butch leaving never crossed my mind...If he left for Michigan...so be it. There is nothing we can do about that.

Third:
Although it was to some degree, by default, a statement to the irrational (fire him) minority of our fan base...by in large this was an analysis of our current situation and the patience I think that is needed from fans (even though patience is not a term associated with fandom). Maybe my "title" is poorly worded. I'm not saying "I support Butch" regardless...simply that we should examine our expectations. Although, at this point I really do believe Butch will get us there.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

again i wish u were my boss n paid me 3m a year and gave/me 5 years to have a winning record.... .. most people have no clue what a great coach can do with avg talent..

heck why/we r at it lets give him a raise every year so mich doesnt steal a coach with a losing record away.

I agree to a point, last year was very disappointing losing to those scrubs from Nashville and not making a bowl game. But in all fairness he was an inch away from another sig win against Georgia and would of made a bowl game. So realistically we were very very close to winning 7 games with potentially 8 with a bowl game. This year he's undefeated currently. Doesn't look promising so far, but let's give it til Florida before we start questioning.

 

[keckjm]

First:
It is humorous to me that you opened with "will these threads ever stop" yet you felt so compelled to comment.

Second:
truthfully...the thought of Butch leaving never crossed my mind...If he left for Michigan...so be it. There is nothing we can do about that.

Third:
Although it was to some degree, by default, a statement to the irrational (fire him) minority of our fan base...by in large this was an analysis of our current situation and the patience I think that is needed from fans (even though patience is not a term associated with fandom). Maybe my "title" is poorly worded. I'm not saying "I support Butch" regardless...simply that we should examine our expectations. Although, at this point I really do believe Butch will get us there.

You are good brother :rock:. You can't please everyone, and anytime you make a stand for something worth while you are always going to have someone stand against you. It's life.

Now that my moral lesson for today is over, I'll add that CBJ will do what it takes to win. Here's the kicker though, when do you know it's time to "change it up" in terms of your coaching staff? Mahoney, Elder, etc have been together a very long time. That's not going to be something that comes easy if it does have to come, which I'm hoping it doesn't but I am concerned for our long term future in the o-line dept. Mahoney better know how to coach because he's not going to have top talent across the board to work with for the next year and a half. This board is a little nutty right now, but the 2016 class is going to have to be the house that CBJ builds on top of his 2014 foundation. I feel the 2015 class is a filler class that will fill voids at DT, OLB, RB, QB, DE, and OG for the long term. We land Shy along with maybe another CB, another LB, or another DE and we are setting pretty nice for 2015 outside LT. We have to find our elite LT in the 2016 class, and until then we have to develop Thomas, Kendrick, and Jones so one of them can slide over come 2016 and compete at a high level. We need to land at least one elite OT every year. We need to take him, place him at RT, redshirt him, let him get familiar with our offense, get him stronger, allow him to master his techniques, play him a year or two at RT, then move him to LT for the remaining years he has here.

 

[kw3953]

Thanks for the outlook (Fulmer was fired when he well, should have been fired). :wink2:

 

[Falcons02]

You are good brother :rock:. You can't please everyone, and anytime you make a stand for something worth while you are always going to have someone stand against you. It's life.

Now that my moral lesson for today is over, I'll add that CBJ will do what it takes to win. Here's the kicker though, when do you know it's time to "change it up" in terms of your coaching staff? Mahoney, Elder, etc have been together a very long time. That's not going to be something that comes easy if it does have to come, which I'm hoping it doesn't but I am concerned for our long term future in the o-line dept. Mahoney better know how to coach because he's not going to have top talent across the board to work with for the next year and a half. This board is a little nutty right now, but the 2016 class is going to have to be the house that CBJ builds on top of his 2014 foundation. I feel the 2015 class is a filler class that will fill voids at DT, OLB, RB, QB, DE, and OG for the long term. We land Shy along with maybe another CB, another LB, or another DE and we are setting pretty nice for 2015 outside LT. We have to find our elite LT in the 2016 class, and until then we have to develop Thomas, Kendrick, and Jones so one of them can slide over come 2016 and compete at a high level. We need to land at least one elite OT every year. We need to take him, place him at RT, redshirt him, let him get familiar with our offense, get him stronger, allow him to master his techniques, play him a year or two at RT, then move him to LT for the remaining years he has here.

Not really trying to "stand against" anyone... maybe I just mentally merged his thread with all the other "house on fire"/don't leave Butch/Butch lost a recruit everyone panic! threads that seem to have cropped up lately. My apologies...

 

[VOLINVONORE]

again i wish u were my boss n paid me 3m a year and gave/me 5 years to have a winning record.... .. most people have no clue what a great coach can do with avg talent..

heck why/we r at it lets give him a raise every year so mich doesnt steal a coach with a losing record away.

If your product sucked when you hired me and I have introduced a new and better product, i would deserve the pay, especially if i had rebuilt three other businesses that had been failing. Get real!