immigration bill

[smokedog#3]

our government sold us out, anybody that voted for this should be taken out and shot for treason. :bad:

 

[OrangeEmpire]

our government sold us out, anybody that voted for this should be taken out and shot for treason.

Non-serious: And you complain about W being like the Nazi party? :dunno:

Serious: I almost agree with your sentiments. :blink:

 

[CSpindizzy]

What it comes down to is big business needing this to ***tion and rake in more money. At this point, the problem has snowballed and all that the idiots in Congress can do is sugar-coat what can be done reasonably. The ironic thing is that the ones making the loudest gripe about illegals have districts rolling in money from the illegals. My Congressman has fatcat donors making money from illegals. His district is a haven for those in landscaping, construction, and poultry farms and processing plants.

 

[smokedog#3]

it's another sad day for the USA. :bad:

 

[OWB]

What it comes down to is big business needing this to ***tion and rake in more money. At this point, the problem has snowballed and all that the idiots in Congress can do is sugar-coat what can be done reasonably. The ironic thing is that the ones making the loudest gripe about illegals have districts rolling in money from the illegals. My Congressman has fatcat donors making money from illegals. His district is a haven for those in landscaping, construction, and poultry farms and processing plants.

Exactly. If we want to get to the root of this problem, we simply punish the big business for hiring them in first place. I'm talking about punishment, not a small fine.

 

[OldVol]

Here's a breakdown on the vote as I counted it from the Senate page.

Democrats voting for the bill: 38
Republicans voting for the Bill: 23
Independents (if you can call Jeffords that): 1

Democrats voting against the bill: 4
Republicans voting against the bill: 32

Democrats not voting at all: 2

If I were a democrat or a republican voting for this bill, I'd be very concerned if I were running for re-election this year.

I responded to Bill's contact by asking him what he was so excited about. My words, "You've just passed the single largest amnesty for criminal action in the history of the nation."

What does he have to be proud of?

On the other hand, any monies I had set aside for Frist's possible run for the presidency will now go to Lamar and whomever I choose to support in the 08 presidential campaign.

I wrote all of the men and women I’ve supported financially and told them that if they granted any form of amnesty I’d never give them another penny.

It’s time we make a believer of all of them. Whichever side of the isle, regardless of our political leanings, we need to put these people out who voted for this horrible bill.

It’s a disgrace.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Exactly. I cannot fault a man or woman who wishes to earn about 10 times what they make at home and live in better standards. If I were in their position I'd do the same.

I seriously think the focus needs to be almost entirely on enforcement of the current laws. Those who hire these workers are defrauding us all. Have the IRS and state revenue agencies going after them for tax fraud. They are Americans who are breaking American laws. They are exploiting human labor for their own gain and adding to my tax burden by allowing illegals to work instead of Americans and to allow them to take advantage of services that taxpayers pay for.

Take these Americans out behind the woodshed and punish them. THEN watch this problem dry up...while not completely it will definitely change.

 

[OldVol]

Exactly. I cannot fault a man or woman who wishes to earn about 10 times what they make at home and live in better standards. If I were in their position I'd do the same.

I seriously think the focus needs to be almost entirely on enforcement of the current laws. Those who hire these workers are defrauding us all. Have the IRS and state revenue agencies going after them for tax fraud. They are Americans who are breaking American laws. They are exploiting human labor for their own gain and adding to my tax burden by allowing illegals to work instead of Americans and to allow them to take advantage of services that taxpayers pay for.

Take these Americans out behind the woodshed and punish them. THEN watch this problem dry up...while not completely it will definitely change.

But in the process, we're handing out hudred dollar bills, literally, to people who:

A. Forged Government Documents
B. Used them to gain employment
C. Now are going to be rewarded for both a and b and no one goes to jail.

Now, consider this scenario: I forge a false SSI number. I use it to avoid paing my taxes on my real SSI number.

Where do I end up?

Anybody want to ventur a guess.

Since I live in Mid TN, Riverbend Maximum Security would be the logical destination, I suppose.

 

[OWB]

But in the process, we're handing out hudred dollar bills, literally, to people who:

A. Forged Government Documents
B. Used them to gain employment
C. Now are going to be rewarded for both a and b and no one goes to jail.

Now, consider this scenario: I forge a false SSI number. I use it to avoid paing my taxes on my real SSI number.

Where do I end up?

Anybody want to ventur a guess.

Since I live in Mid TN, Riverbend Maximum Security would be the logical destination, I suppose.

Not only are they using false SS numbers, they could be using yours and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[OldVol]

Not only are they using false SS numbers, they could be using yours and there's nothing you can do about it.

Well, we wouldn't want to make our guests uncomfortable.

We should fix them up with welfare, free housing, health ... oh, wait ... we're already doing that. :bad:

 

[hatvol96]

But in the process, we're handing out hudred dollar bills, literally, to people who:

A. Forged Government Documents
B. Used them to gain employment
C. Now are going to be rewarded for both a and b and no one goes to jail.

Now, consider this scenario: I forge a false SSI number. I use it to avoid paing my taxes on my real SSI number.

Where do I end up?

Anybody want to ventur a guess.

Since I live in Mid TN, Riverbend Maximum Security would be the logical destination, I suppose.

Riverbend is a state facility. The Federal Prison in Manchester, KY would be a more likely destination.

 

[OldVol]

Riverbend is a state facility. The Federal Prison in Manchester, KY would be a more likely destination.

We wouldn't want to pull any strings to stay in state.

We must follow the rule of law.

Unless we are illegal alliens

 

[CSpindizzy]

So in other words, we don't or can't enforce what's on the books so let's add more to it? Add more bureacracy?

In all of the griping on all sides, I hear just that...griping. Very few who gripe add any solution themselves. This leads me to believe that when all is said and done everyone is pissed off but no one knows how to solve the problem.

 

[OldVol]

So in other words, we don't or can't enforce what's on the books so let's add more to it? Add more bureacracy?

In all of the griping on all sides, I hear just that...griping. Very few who gripe add any solution themselves. This leads me to believe that when all is said and done everyone is pissed off but no one knows how to solve the problem.

Everyone is pissed because our leaders refuse to enforce the laws.

More laws, unenforced, is not the answer.

The answer is enforcement.

That is the solution. A person breaks the law, comes here illegaly, detain and deport per the law.

That's the solution.

No one in a position to enforce is listening. That's why people are pissed.

The solution is simple.

STOP BREAKING THE LAWS!

 

[CSpindizzy]

You didn't mention anything about those hiring them or transporting them here. Punish the actual Americans breaking their own laws as well. Start going into farms and plants that have hired illegals and shutting the companies down. People have assets seized for not paying taxes all the time. Start seizing some companies for not paying taxes on these people. Make the officers and owners felons, take their right to vote and carry firearms away. Stick it to the Americans who are committing illegal acts against their own people.

 

[hatvol96]

The American public, like with many issues, refuses to accept their portion of the blame for this "problem." Everyone wants things done on the cheap. If the illegals weren't doing the roofing, landscaping, and construction, costs would skyrocket. People would then bitch about that. Everyone decries the loss of manufacturing jobs in the US, but they have no problem buying the cheap goods that come out of Indonesia and China. If forced to pay the prices comparable goods would cost if made in America, the public would go into apoplexy.

 

[OWB]

Start going into farms and plants that have hired illegals and shutting the companies down. People have assets seized for not paying taxes all the time. Start seizing some companies for not paying taxes on these people. .

Come on Cspin, you can't mess with *gulp* Big Business. They run the country.

 

[CSpindizzy]

To use a quote from W no one is above the law.....of course that was in regards to Cong. William Jefferson and his office being searched. Surely he meant that was across the board. Right? Anyone?

 

[OldVol]

You didn't mention anything about those hiring them or transporting them here. Punish the actual Americans breaking their own laws as well. Start going into farms and plants that have hired illegals and shutting the companies down. People have assets seized for not paying taxes all the time. Start seizing some companies for not paying taxes on these people. Make the officers and owners felons, take their right to vote and carry firearms away. Stick it to the Americans who are committing illegal acts against their own people.

Yes, I mentioned them as my first point. http://www.volnation.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15910

I'm all for severe punishment, which the law now requires, but is ignored.

This is surreal. Laws, being broken, and enforcement being ignored.

This country is rotting from the inside out.

Not everyone is willing to sacrafice national security for a cheaply landscaped yard.

I would never hire anyone I suspected of being here illegally. The last time I had to hire out some manual labor I paid the people
a dollar an hour more than they requested, with certain stipulations to be met. I had to force them to stop and take a break. They worked
like gangbusters.

Most American businessmen are too greedy and too ignorant to see the difference between an honest living wage and imagined profits.

 

[hatvol96]

This is surreal. Laws, being broken, and enforcement being ignored.

Tough day for you, Ancient One. I guess that huge majority of people you claim so fervently love the rule of law doesn't include the United States Senate.

 

[hatvol96]

Come on Cspin, you can't mess with *gulp* Big Business. They run the country.

Good to see some people on this board are catching on to the realities of the New Millenium.

 

[volinbham]

The American public, like with many issues, refuses to accept their portion of the blame for this "problem." Everyone wants things done on the cheap. If the illegals weren't doing the roofing, landscaping, and construction, costs would skyrocket. People would then bitch about that. Everyone decries the loss of manufacturing jobs in the US, but they have no problem buying the cheap goods that come out of Indonesia and China. If forced to pay the prices comparable goods would cost if made in America, the public would go into apoplexy.

Once again, the economists have it right when they say "There is no such thing as a free lunch".

Before you can solve the problem, you have to understand it. There are costs to illegal immigration and there are costs that will be incurred if we stop it.

I think the Senate bill is too much of a giveaway but the House bill is unworkable.