IMO the Fall out of this ought to Start with Mike Hamilton

[KYSkipper]

I understand what's happening here. You take a man and pay him millions to win. He knows one thing certain, if he doesn't win, his contract will be cut short and his cash flow will stop.

To keep his money flowing he gets the best athletes available. The best athletes available generally do not come from the best of circumstances. I don't know why, but they seem to come from the inner cities where they have grown up surrounded by dope, gangs, shootings, robbings and who knows what all else. The pressure the money is putting on these coaches to produce pushes them to ignore "Minor" character problems with these kids.

UT has had drug problems with the football and basketball teams since I can remember. This is nothing new. When this happened with the football team I did a search to find out the problems other schools have had. Believe it or not even Vanderbilt has had kids arrested in the last year. Air Force was another I wouldn't have suspected, and the Pope's Pupils weren't immune to it either.

That said most schools seem to do a better job of handling it than does UT.

The Fact is, Mike Hamilton is the boss over the Football Program and Basketball Program. He's the one that hired the coaches and is supposed to be the guy in charge. He needs to take charge.

DUI's, dope use, fighting in a bar. I may not like that kind of thing but I can deal with it.

Armed Robbery and posession of weapons with altered serial numbers are both very serious felonies. I don't think any mercy should be shown the parties involved. Referring to the Lonesome Dove movie "You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw."

Mike Hamilton ought to step in and put his big foot down and issue a policy that any UT athlete caught committing a felony will immediately be dismissed from the University.

Skipper

 

[dickens821]

I understand what's happening here. You take a man and pay him millions to win. He knows one thing certain, if he doesn't win, his contract will be cut short and his cash flow will stop.

To keep his money flowing he gets the best athletes available. The best athletes available generally do not come from the best of circumstances. I don't know why, but they seem to come from the inner cities where they have grown up surrounded by dope, gangs, shootings, robbings and who knows what all else. The pressure the money is putting on these coaches to produce pushes them to ignore "Minor" character problems with these kids.

UT has had drug problems with the football and basketball teams since I can remember. This is nothing new. When this happened with the football team I did a search to find out the problems other schools have had. Believe it or not even Vanderbilt has had kids arrested in the last year. Air Force was another I wouldn't have suspected, and the Pope's Pupils weren't immune to it either.

That said most schools seem to do a better job of handling it than does UT.

The Fact is, Mike Hamilton is the boss over the Football Program and Basketball Program. He's the one that hired the coaches and is supposed to be the guy in charge. He needs to take charge.

DUI's, dope use, fighting in a bar. I may not like that kind of thing but I can deal with it.

Armed Robbery and posession of weapons with altered serial numbers are both very serious felonies. I don't think any mercy should be shown the parties involved. Referring to the Lonesome Dove movie "You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw."

Mike Hamilton ought to step in and put his big foot down and issue a policy that any UT athlete caught committing a felony will immediately be dismissed from the University.

Skipper

1) I think they should all be kicked off the team.

2) Pretty sure all charges were misdemeanors

 

[BigPapaVol]

Very novel idea to dismiss guys committing felonies.

 

[TD10EYEC]

Seems like you have figured it all out.

 

[Big Orange Diesel]

:zeitung_lesen:

.

 

[KYSkipper]

1) I think they should all be kicked off the team.

2) Pretty sure all charges were misdemeanors

Armed robbery is not a misdemeanor but it's relatively light in comparison to posessing a firearm with an altered serial number.

Armed robbery is most likely going to be in the state court system where politics can sway things or hush it up. Altering a serial number on a weapon shoots past local law enforcement all the way up to the ATF and they don't play nice. They also don't fool with local courts. That's a federal charge.

 

[MphsBlues]

Armed robbery is not a misdemeanor but it's relatively light in comparison to posessing a firearm with an altered serial number.

Armed robbery is most likely going to be in the state court system where politics can sway things or hush it up. Altering a serial number on a weapon shoots past local law enforcement all the way up to the ATF and they don't play nice. They also don't fool with local courts. That's a federal charge.

Who did they rob? What did the rest of us miss?

 

[BigPapaVol]

Armed robbery is not a misdemeanor but it's relatively light in comparison to posessing a firearm with an altered serial number.

Armed robbery is most likely going to be in the state court system where politics can sway things or hush it up. Altering a serial number on a weapon shoots past local law enforcement all the way up to the ATF and they don't play nice. They also don't fool with local courts. That's a federal charge.

Armed robbery is a violent crime with a victim. Possession of a weapon doesn't get there, or even close, regardless of which court has jurisdiction.

 

[MphsBlues]

Guess you were bringing up football problems along with the basketball problem... Had me thrown for a sec..

 

[KYSkipper]

Armed robbery is a violent crime with a victim. Possession of a weapon doesn't get there, or even close, regardless of which court has jurisdiction.

I'm not talking about possession of a weapon. I'm talking about possession of an illegal weapon. There is a big difference. An altered serial numbered gun ranks way up the line in firearm violations. First off it's a Federal Crime. Possession of a weapon is a state level crime. Spend 10 bucks, go to the Jacob building this weekend and ask around about firearms with the serial number altered. It's not a KPD issue it's BATF and they don't mess around with anybody over anything. They mean business. There are only 2 reasons to alter the serial number on a firearm. 1. It's a stolen gun 2. It's been used in a crime and the owner doesn't want it traced back to him/her.

Guess you were bringing up football problems along with the basketball problem... Had me thrown for a sec..

Yes, that's why I suggested that Mike Hamilton should be involved. He is the boss over the entire athletic department.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Aside from NBC weapons, I don't care what it is. Armed robbery is a violent crime, while weapon possession is serious, but not violent because it's victimless.

 

[KYSkipper]

Aside from NBC weapons, I don't care what it is. Armed robbery is a violent crime, while weapon possession is serious, but not violent because it's victimless.

The BATF and IRS are a whole lot the same sort of character. Both can take a 5 cent problem and make you miserable from now on over it.

 

[MikeHamiltonFan]

Wrongo...

The ATF is an unconstitutional organization that is illegal under the Constitution that is supposed to govern our republic.

You could be altering the serial number of a weapon because you recognize that from the Nazi's to the Communists states seek to register weapons so that they can take them away from you. The government of the United States cannot abridge my individual right to keep and bear arms without a constitutional amendment. Blatant misuse of the commerce clause by criminals does not make their actions legal. The Federal government has no power to regulate drugs, but their power to regulate firearms is even more clearly in violation with a document written by men who knew that we would need guns to protect us from our government.

 

[KYSkipper]

Wrongo...

The ATF is an unconstitutional organization that is illegal under the Constitution that is supposed to govern our republic.

You could be altering the serial number of a weapon because you recognize that from the Nazi's to the Communists states seek to register weapons so that they can take them away from you. The government of the United States cannot abridge my individual right to keep and bear arms without a constitutional amendment. Blatant misuse of the commerce clause by criminals does not make their actions legal. The Federal government has no power to regulate drugs, but their power to regulate firearms is even more clearly in violation with a document written by men who knew that we would need guns to protect us from our government.

That's all well and good, and there are those who claim this or that tax is unconstitutional.

That said, the IRS and ATF are who they are and constitutional or not, both will make your life miserable.

 

[vol66]

If one starts with the premise that we have high expectations for our programs on the field/court, we must also have high expectations off, then yes the buck should stop with the coaches and Hamilton. Unfortunately, Hamilton can't control his coaches.Kiffin told him there would be no more violations, uh...oops. Pearl says he doesn't want to have to coach effort...uh...huh? No consequences for the coaches.... why should there be any when the players screw up.Someone posted in another thread something like CBP can't be expected to babysit the players 24 hrs. a day, my question is WHY NOT? If the players act like babies, maybe that's exactly what he should do. It's easy, What would Pat Summit do? She'd make their lives so miserable that they'd do anything to get her to ease up. That's how you coach effort and teach accountability.

 

[swordfish_vol]

The ATF is an unconstitutional organization that is illegal under the Constitution ...

Redundancy is redundant.

I appreciate your concern for the second amendment, but maybe this isn't the board for this type of comment. Even assuming this logic touches on the issue w/ the Vol basketball players, it's not something that would be brought up by either CBP or the arrestees to defend their actions. What a mess things would become if they tried!

 

[vols5790]

Get em out and maybe Wayne and Scottie will step up!

 

[Vercingetorix]

Wrongo...

The ATF is an unconstitutional organization that is illegal under the Constitution that is supposed to govern our republic.

You could be altering the serial number of a weapon because you recognize that from the Nazi's to the Communists states seek to register weapons so that they can take them away from you. The government of the United States cannot abridge my individual right to keep and bear arms without a constitutional amendment. Blatant misuse of the commerce clause by criminals does not make their actions legal. The Federal government has no power to regulate drugs, but their power to regulate firearms is even more clearly in violation with a document written by men who knew that we would need guns to protect us from our government.

Put down the Timothy McVeigh crackpipe. You really think that Brian Williams is filing the serial number off a gun because he's worried about his theoretical constitutional rights being theoretically violated?

 

[LawVol13]

Armed robbery is not a misdemeanor but it's relatively light in comparison to posessing a firearm with an altered serial number.

Armed robbery is most likely going to be in the state court system where politics can sway things or hush it up. Altering a serial number on a weapon shoots past local law enforcement all the way up to the ATF and they don't play nice. They also don't fool with local courts. That's a federal charge.

So, where is the evidence that anyone in the vehicle altered the serial number on the gun? I don't think there is evidence that proves that the guns even belonged to the players. This is not going to be a federal offense because there is not one shred of evidence that any of the players did anything to the weapons or even knew they were present in the vehicle. These are all misdemeanor charges.

 

[BIGORANGEBUBBA]

So, where is the evidence that anyone in the vehicle altered the serial number on the gun? I don't think there is evidence that proves that the guns even belonged to the players. This is not going to be a federal offense because there is not one shred of evidence that any of the players did anything to the weapons or even knew they were present in the vehicle. These are all misdemeanor charges.

sure they didnt know the firearms were in the car...just like they didnt know the bag of pot was either that they were smoking out of-they didnt know any of it was there because it was a rental car. it does not matter if they "knew it was there" or not it was in their possession. next time you get a rental car check under the seats to make sure an illegal gun is not there so you can "know" whats there.

 

[KYSkipper]

So, where is the evidence that anyone in the vehicle altered the serial number on the gun? I don't think there is evidence that proves that the guns even belonged to the players. This is not going to be a federal offense because there is not one shred of evidence that any of the players did anything to the weapons or even knew they were present in the vehicle. These are all misdemeanor charges.

So you want to try denying this happened? That might have worked in the old days when the KPD called the University and the University followed the 3 S plan. (shoot, shovel, and shut up).

The fact is, it did happen and it's all over the news, all over the country. I don't know about you, but as an alumnus of the University, it embarrasses me that we have big time ball players out robbing people at service stations and driving around drunk and doped up with illegal weapons in the car. That's why I think Hamilton needs to step in and come up with a serious policy to handle situations like this and make it up to the SID and not the individual coaches.

 

[MikeHamiltonFan]

So you want to try denying this happened? That might have worked in the old days when the KPD called the University and the University followed the 3 S plan. (shoot, shovel, and shut up).

The fact is, it did happen and it's all over the news, all over the country. I don't know about you, but as an alumnus of the University, it embarrasses me that we have big time ball players out robbing people at service stations and driving around drunk and doped up with illegal weapons in the car. That's why I think Hamilton needs to step in and come up with a serious policy to handle situations like this and make it up to the SID and not the individual coaches.

DUI? Now we have a DUI?

Nope. We have 4 misdemeanors.

The argument about the ATF is probably not for here, except that anytime something like this happens you have complete idiots saying no athletes should be allowed to carry guns.

Many states provide for open carry. TN is not one of them. TN is supposed to be a firearms friendly state but it is not really. All 4 of them should have gone to CCA and paid for the class and the permit, then they could have legally carried the gun in their car.

 

[BigPapaVol]

So you want to try denying this happened? That might have worked in the old days when the KPD called the University and the University followed the 3 S plan. (shoot, shovel, and shut up).

The fact is, it did happen and it's all over the news, all over the country. I don't know about you, but as an alumnus of the University, it embarrasses me that we have big time ball players out robbing people at service stations and driving around drunk and doped up with illegal weapons in the car. That's why I think Hamilton needs to step in and come up with a serious policy to handle situations like this and make it up to the SID and not the individual coaches.

Up to the sports information director rather than the coach that makes $2 million per year to recruit and coach the kids?

 

[s1216]

I understand what's happening here. You take a man and pay him millions to win. He knows one thing certain, if he doesn't win, his contract will be cut short and his cash flow will stop.

To keep his money flowing he gets the best athletes available. The best athletes available generally do not come from the best of circumstances. I don't know why, but they seem to come from the inner cities where they have grown up surrounded by dope, gangs, shootings, robbings and who knows what all else. The pressure the money is putting on these coaches to produce pushes them to ignore "Minor" character problems with these kids.

UT has had drug problems with the football and basketball teams since I can remember. This is nothing new. When this happened with the football team I did a search to find out the problems other schools have had. Believe it or not even Vanderbilt has had kids arrested in the last year. Air Force was another I wouldn't have suspected, and the Pope's Pupils weren't immune to it either.

That said most schools seem to do a better job of handling it than does UT.

The Fact is, Mike Hamilton is the boss over the Football Program and Basketball Program. He's the one that hired the coaches and is supposed to be the guy in charge. He needs to take charge.

DUI's, dope use, fighting in a bar. I may not like that kind of thing but I can deal with it.

Armed Robbery and posession of weapons with altered serial numbers are both very serious felonies. I don't think any mercy should be shown the parties involved. Referring to the Lonesome Dove movie "You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw."

Mike Hamilton ought to step in and put his big foot down and issue a policy that any UT athlete caught committing a felony will immediately be dismissed from the University.

Skipper

The univeristy already has policies in place for this. The althetic department can dismiss players from the team. The AD has no authority to start kicking students out of the university. Even if this was possible, you are asking for students to get kicked out of school the instant bad press comes out. What does "caught committing a felony" actually mean? You are asking to stop giving scholarships to kids from high crime neighborhoods? You are delusional.

 

[vol66]

Pearl from KNS article: "I don't know who the guns belong to, and I don't know who the marijuana belonged to or where they found it...."

WHERE THEY FOUND IT?

Pearl: "I have very little tolerance for that(drugs). I've got a history with a number of players who were starters, players who are no longer here."

A HISTORY WITH A NUMBER OF PLAYERS!!!

This foolishness is why Hamilton needs to get involved. I think they honestly thought that if they got rid of Ramar they were gonna get rid of the problem. If fans are sitting at home or in the stands wondering if the basketball team is PUI (playing under the influence) or worse...there's a problem.