"India and China Redevelopment Act"

[gsvol]

aka 'bridge to disaster' aka 'Cap and Trade'.

Howard Dean: "It costs a lot less to take carbon out of the air in the United States and Europe than it does in developing countries, particularly poor countries," Dean said. "So what cap-and-trade really does is [act as] an international mechanism to make it easier to reduce the CO load and still make it possible to develop countries."

Well yeah, with jobs that have previously been held by Americans, not to mention the increased cost for energy to american homeowners.

C&T Could Mean Economic Suicide.

In reality, the bill will have no impact whatsoever on global warming.

If global warming is in fact real and man-made, the bill's imposition of a "cap-and-trade" permitting system on heavy emitters and the oil and gas industries will have only one consequence: the creation of a huge environmental bureaucracy in charge of implementing it. Europe's experience with a similar cap-and-trade system since 2005 makes this clear.

Here are some other comments found on the internet in discussion of these media articles:

There is no global Warming. NONE. The earth is cooling. There is no effect of co2.

Co2 is 1/3 of one percent of the atmosphere and you breath it out. Plants must have co2.

So the entire basis for “Tax and Trade” is a hoax and a subterfuge to get your money and give it to parasites. Alternative fuels are a joke. We just hit the greatest oil reserve in the WORLD beneath the Bakken shale in North Dakota. These wells produce 1000 bls a day. One well there is producing 2000 bls per day!! —

We have all the oil we need for 50 years. Exxon has just found monster gas reserves in British Columbia using shale drilling techniques that dwarf the big Texas play (Barnett shale) that is so productive it drove gas down to $3.50 mcf from $11.00. Natural gas will go to 75 cents mcf within two years.

The question is -do we want to kill this country or make it thrive? Stop the madness. Demand your elected representatives not worship the false God of environmentalism.

Maybe the next round of tea party protestors should take along their guns and shoot out a few government windows to show they mean business.

Liberals heads explode when Sarah goes off on Obama. They just can’t take it. They love their Teleprompter in Chief so much, they would jump off a cliff for him.

Boxer: Making Everyone Poor is My Goal, Helped by Al Gore
July 14, 2009, 12:07 PM

Barbara Boxer wants to challenge Al Gore to be the chief scaremeister of America’. “If the Senate doesn’t pass a bill to cut global warming, Democratic Sen. Barbara Boxer says, there will be dire results: droughts, floods, fires, loss of species, damage to agriculture, worsening air pollution and more.

All she has left out is locust and the killing of the first born (she supports the killing of as many babies as possible already).

She does not mention that the bill gives billions of our money to China—where her fellow Democrat Dianne Feinstein and her husband are involved in massive investments.

She does not mention that a similar program in England has raised the cost of energy for the average family by $1003 per year. Yet, in the midst of a government created depression, she wants families to go hungry.

The bill supported by Boxer would force Americans to retrofit their homes, at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars, before they are allowed to sell their homes.

Pass this bill and home values in the United States will plummet over night—killing more families and destroying the elderly—but, then she is very rich, it will not matter to her or Dianne.

Shame on us for not laughing at this measure and just asking what is the punch line to this joke?

Cap’n-Tax is a constitutional monstrosity. It turns enumerated powers upside down, so now every activity has a federal nexus because it uses energy and energy impacts the environment. The transformation from a government of limited powers to one without restraint is close to being complete.

They say that a lottery is a "tax on stupid [and poor]" which may be arguable. At least in a lottery one has a chance to win and usually knows the risk of losing fixed amount of money and odds of outcome.

What is unarguable is that one can "win" nothing with C&T or estimate the costs, so Cap-and-Trade is truly a tax on poor and stupid, which Dr. Howard Dean's absurd logic and statement has just proved.

 

[TennTradition]

This quote makes no sense to me...can someone explain what he means?

Howard Dean: "It costs a lot less to take carbon out of the air in the United States and Europe than it does in developing countries, particularly poor countries," Dean said. "So what cap-and-trade really does is [act as] an international mechanism to make it easier to reduce the CO load and still make it possible to develop countries."

First, taking CO2 directly out of the air costs pretty much the same regardless of where it is done. Of course, that isn't what he means, although that is what he said. As far as reducing the amount of CO2 we are putting in the air, I don't see how that is cheaper to do in the US and Europe, where energy efficiency is already in place. The marginal cost for CO2 reductions is almost always cheaper in these countries....it's the concept of low-hanging fruit....

I don't get it....

 

[volinbham]

This quote makes no sense to me...can someone explain what he means?



First, taking CO2 directly out of the air costs pretty much the same regardless of where it is done. Of course, that isn't what he means, although that is what he said. As far as reducing the amount of CO2 we are putting in the air, I don't see how that is cheaper to do in the US and Europe, where energy efficiency is already in place. The marginal cost for CO2 reductions is almost always cheaper in these countries....it's the concept of low-hanging fruit....

I don't get it....

The author of the quote should tell you all you need to know...

 

[Chemvol]

Perhaps you should consider the source, TT. I've never heard Howard Dean say anything that made any sense.

edit: GMTA, vbh

 

[gsvol]

This quote makes no sense to me...can someone explain what he means?



First, taking CO2 directly out of the air costs pretty much the same regardless of where it is done. Of course, that isn't what he means, although that is what he said. As far as reducing the amount of CO2 we are putting in the air, I don't see how that is cheaper to do in the US and Europe, where energy efficiency is already in place. The marginal cost for CO2 reductions is almost always cheaper in these countries....it's the concept of low-hanging fruit....

I don't get it....

Remember WWI and WWII???

The cost of reducing emissions in France is negligible because they primarily use nuclear energy to produce electricity, in Germany on the other hand, because they have been denied nuclear technology, their cost is huge because they have been forced to use fossile energy.

Back to your post, how about the costs in China and India???

How about if China and India (among many other places) don't even have to reduce or even slow down the growth of emmissions??

Excellent analysis of how cap and trade is intended to unfold.

Obama’s cap and tax scam isn’t just a payoff to the environmental lobby, or the big government liberals salivating over the gold mine of new tax revenue they can use to buy more votes. Nope! The cap and trade scam will be a huge financial payoff to the rich Wall Street traders who overwhelmingly backed Obama in the presidential election.

It’s no secret that the security and investment community gave the majority of their campaign contributions to Democrats in 2008 and Obama in particular. But less noticed is that the investment firm Goldman Sachs, which gave 75% of their contributions to Democrats and was a major donor to Obama’s campaign stands to rake in billions if the cap and trade plan Democrats are pushing in Congress becomes law.

Matt Taibbi writing at Rolling Stone exposes “how Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression - and they’re about to do it again.”

BTW, as a side note, as we speak, the US Treasury department is presently selling back it's financial stakes in bail-out banks at a 1/3 discount, amounting to about 3$ billion according to the bipartisan congressional watchdog 'Congressional Oversight Panel' which was created by congress to oversee the $700 bali-out fund.

Will Dems allow Goldman to manipulate a cap-and-trade market?

Goldman Sachs, the Wall Street leviathan that is heavily invested in the cap-and-trade carbon market scam, has admitted it has developed and used software that can manipulate such financial markets.


The revelation came during proceedings in a legal case with enough plot twists to make even John Grisham proud; it was made, not by Goldman, but by an assistant U.S. Attorney.


"(B)ecause of the way this software interfaces with the various markets and exchanges, the bank has raised a possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways," Joseph Facciponti told a federal magistrate in an unusual Saturday afternoon bail hearing -- and not just any Saturday afternoon, but the Fourth of July.


Facciponti's comments came at a hearing for Sergey Aleynikov, a former Goldman Sachs programmer, who had been arrested the day before, disembarking from a plane at Newark's Liberty International Airport. Aleynikov is accused of absconding with the code for the Goldman program and uploading it to a server in Germany, shortly before leaving the firm to take a job with a Chicago start-up for three times his $400,000 a year Goldman salary.

(If you read any of my links, be sure to read the one above, it just gets deeper and deeper.)

I've just recently bought the Godfather trilogy and have been watching them, maybe I'm skeptical of the big con.

 

[TennTradition]

Remember WWI and WWII???

The cost of reducing emissions in France is negligible because they primarily use nuclear energy to produce electricity, in Germany on the other hand, because they have been denied nuclear technology, their cost is huge because they have been forced to use fossile energy.

Back to your post, how about the costs in China and India???

How about if China and India (among many other places) don't even have to reduce or even slow down the growth of emmissions??

But his point is directed toward reducing the amount of CO2 emitted. If it were the cost of reaching some set threshold, then maybe that would come into play. But, the marginal cost of CO2 reduction is almost always going to be cheaper where simple technology already exists but is just not employed. For example, putting energy efficiency measures into place in India that exist here but not there would be cheaper than trying to further increase our efficiency. It's a low-hanging fruit argument, and it just really confuses me as to what he meant.....

 

[SavageOrangeJug]

Howard Dean: "It costs a lot less to take carbon out of the air in the United States and Europe than it does in developing countries, particularly poor countries," Dean said. "So what cap-and-trade really does is [act as] an international mechanism to make it easier to reduce the CO load and still make it possible to develop countries."

An 'international mechanism' paid for by Americans.

This absolutely the most pathetic excuse of a presidential administration to ever be unleashed on this nation. I can't think of a single individual who is qualified for the position they hold.

 

[volinbham]

But his point is directed toward reducing the amount of CO2 emitted. If it were the cost of reaching some set threshold, then maybe that would come into play. But, the marginal cost of CO2 reduction is almost always going to be cheaper where simple technology already exists but is just not employed. For example, putting energy efficiency measures into place in India that exist here but not there would be cheaper than trying to further increase our efficiency. It's a low-hanging fruit argument, and it just really confuses me as to what he meant.....

Perhaps he's saying Americans can bear the costs of CO2 reduction better than citizens of developing countries?

 

[gsvol]

But his point is directed toward reducing the amount of CO2 emitted. If it were the cost of reaching some set threshold, then maybe that would come into play. But, the marginal cost of CO2 reduction is almost always going to be cheaper where simple technology already exists but is just not employed. For example, putting energy efficiency measures into place in India that exist here but not there would be cheaper than trying to further increase our efficiency. It's a low-hanging fruit argument, and it just really confuses me as to what he meant.....

You may be encumbered with the burden of trying to apply rational thought to irrational rhetoric.

Then too is duplicity if not outright intentional deception of the American people.

During the 2008 fiscal year, the Bank provided approximately $1 billion to coal-based projects including the Tata Ultra Mega super critical coal plant in India, two projects for privatisation of coal-fired plants (Calaca Power and Masinloc Power Partners) in the Philippines (see Update 62), and the PT Makmur Sejahtera Wisesa coal power plant in Indonesia.

IMO, anyone buying the current rhetoric on cap and trade coming from washington is an utter ignorant fool.

 

[TennTradition]

Perhaps he's saying Americans can bear the costs of CO2 reduction better than citizens of developing countries?

That is probably true from a welfare standpoint...but that doesn't seem close to what actually came out of his mouth. Did this guy actually run for President....did they actually make him chairman?

 

[gsvol]

That is probably true from a welfare standpoint...but that doesn't seem close to what actually came out of his mouth. Did this guy actually run for President....did they actually make him chairman?

Worse yet, we elected the current duo, who if not tethered to their teleprompters, sound like blathering idiots.

And even while reading off smoothly written lines from their teleprompters, if you actually bother to examine their statements beyond the surface, you realize we in America are being had in the worst way.

Was it Hitler or Himler or some other nazi who said; "the bigger the lie, the more people who will believe it."?

As best as I can understand, basicly we are being told that our gizzards are cooked if the world can't drastically reduce it's CO2 emmissions world wide right away. (even though CO2 is less than 1/3 of 1% of our atmosphere and occurs naturally)

We are being told we are going to put in a plan in America that will have those who produce CO2 pay for the right to do so above certain levels to be determined by some government appointed apparatchnik.

(If that apparatchnik happens to be our current energy commisar, then he has stated the USA needs to deindustrialize, I'll bet he is ecstatic that we are no longer among the top steel producing nations and our auto manufacturing industry is tanking quickly.)

Any fool would know those CO2 producers aren't going to absorb those costs, they are going to pass it along to us the consumers or if the cost is higher than we can pay then move their opperation to some other country that isn't stupid and self destructive enough to enact such a plan.

Those businesses who can't offshore such as those who produce electricity will just increase the rate we have to pay for what we personally use and we will pay more for everything we buy because those who produce those products will be paying higher rates themselves which they will pass along to us or go out of business.

Botttom line is CO2 emmisssions aren't really reduced but government gains a fascist like control of industry in America and oodles of money changes hands via the money changers, not to mention probably millions of jobs Americans depend on for a living will become available in other countries.

Another idea promoted by our messiah in chief is that others in the world won't be happy if Americans continue to lead such lavish life styles.

Let me present this question, if Americans become as poor as those who supposedly hate us for being rich, do you think they will suddenly love us and quit making trouble????

Answer, hell no, their ire directed toward America is over other issues anyway.

Has anyone noticed Iran has a national holiday titled; "Death to America Day"?