Interesting chart on right to carry.

[gsvol]

No Lawyers - Only Guns and Money: Every Picture Tells A Story, Part Two

In 1986, 90% of the U.S. population lived in states that severely restricted carry rights or had none at all. Today, over two-thirds of Americans live in states with either shall-issue carry or constitutional carry. The conclusion was that shall-issue is the new norm.

 

[therealUT]

That graph could also explain the effects of abortions...

 

[hndog609]

That graph could also explain the effects of abortions...

Interesting theory, though I have no idea how it could be usefully quantified. Were you trying to say more abortions might explain less violent crime over that time period? It's been my understanding abortion numbers have steadily dropped since around 1990.

At any rate I was under the impression the intended point was in this quote:

Violent crime is a complex issue, but national data is clear that there is no positive correlation between liberalized concealed carry laws and increased violent crime.

Trying to outright state "more guns=less crime" gets convoluted...whole bunch of variables to contend with. Having said that the "more guns=more crime" argument gets regularly undercut by statistics like the ones in the link.

 

[therealUT]

Interesting theory, though I have no idea how it could be usefully quantified. Were you trying to say more abortions might explain less violent crime over that time period? It's been my understanding abortion numbers have steadily dropped since around 1990.

The theory comes from Stephen Levitt and Steven Dubner, and their book Freakonomics. I do not buy into their theory (just as I do not buy into GS's postulate that the rise in gun ownership has led to a decrease in crime) because it is too complex of an issue to single out one cause.

That said, Levitt and Dubner's book is an interesting and entertaining read.

 

[hndog609]

The theory comes from Stephen Levitt and Steven Dubner, and their book Freakonomics. I do not buy into their theory (just as I do not buy into GS's postulate that the rise in gun ownership has led to a decrease in crime) because it is too complex of an issue to single out one cause.

That said, Levitt and Dubner's book is an interesting and entertaining read.

I'd heard something along that line spoken of in the past though I never really knew by who and I'm not familiar with Freakonomics. As I stated previously I have no idea how such a thing could be quanitified with any degree of confidence. It may still be worth a read though.

I pretty much stated my agreement that it's pretty hard to, as you say, directly equate more gun ownership to lessening crime. Just too many variables. I very much do think those that are attempting to do the opposite...say that more guns has clearly led to more violent crime...would appear to be statistically pissing up a rope.

 

[therealUT]

I'd heard something along that line spoken of in the past though I never really knew by who and I'm not familiar with Freakonomics. As I stated previously I have no idea how such a thing could be quanitified with any degree of confidence. It may still be worth a read though.

I pretty much stated my agreement that it's pretty hard to, as you say, directly equate more gun ownership to lessening crime. Just too many variables. I very much do think those that are attempting to do the opposite...say that more guns has clearly led to more violent crime...would appear to be statistically pissing up a rope.

I have never heard that saying before. Now, I am going to steal it.

 

[gsvol]

I have never heard that saying before. Now, I am going to steal it.

How is it that I'm not surprised that you've not heard
that old expression?

You may come with an exception but I can think of
but one country that succumbed to the disarming of
all civilians and not suffered genocide and that country
is Australia.

Australia passed a law that said all privately owned
arms must be registered in a fairly short time, only
two or three months later a ban was decreed on all
those arms and that they should be turned in to
authorities shortly and if registered arms weren't
turned in then government agents appeared and
demanded possession of those firearms.

Shortly after that I talked with two Aussies, on was
a rancher who ran 10,000 head of cattle, he said they
didn't register anything, that would be stupid, and I
talked with one from Sydney who thought is was no big
deal but one must look at the crime rate in Sidney, it
has shot up exponentially since the civilian gun ban.

BTW, our 1968 gun control act is quite similar to a
1933 Nazi gun control act.

 

[KiffinKiller]

we should just make everyone police officers. that would fix the carry laws.

 

[gsvol]

we should just make everyone police officers. that would fix the carry laws.

Like Obama's civilian force equal to the military?

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

How is it that I'm not surprised that you've not heard
that old expression?

You may come with an exception but I can think of
but one country that succumbed to the disarming of
all civilians and not suffered genocide and that country
is Australia.

Australia passed a law that said all privately owned
arms must be registered in a fairly short time, only
two or three months later a ban was decreed on all
those arms and that they should be turned in to
authorities shortly and if registered arms weren't
turned in then government agents appeared and
demanded possession of those firearms.

Shortly after that I talked with two Aussies, on was
a rancher who ran 10,000 head of cattle, he said they
didn't register anything, that would be stupid, and I
talked with one from Sydney who thought is was no big
deal but one must look at the crime rate in Sidney, it
has shot up exponentially since the civilian gun ban.

BTW, our 1968 gun control act is quite similar to a
1933 Nazi gun control act.

That is a great book. A must read for those who would question our 2nd Amendment.