Iranian Nuclear Ambitious: Crippled by Super Worm.

#1
orangeblooded2

orangeblooded2

**Temple of Truth**
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#1
Great read.

I like the logic behind who gets the blame....err credit!


Quote

The construction of the worm was so advanced, it was “like the arrival of an F-35 into a World War I battlefield,” says Ralph Langner, the computer expert who was the first to sound the alarm about Stuxnet. Others have called it the first “weaponized” computer virus.


Quote

Embedded in different section of the code is another common computer language reference, but this one is misspelled. Instead of saying “DEADFOOT,” a term stolen from pilots meaning a failed engine, this one reads “DEADFOO7.”

Yes, OO7 has returned -- as a computer worm.

Stuxnet. Shaken, not stirred.



FoxNews.com - Mystery Surrounds Cyber Missile That Crippled Iran's Nuclear Weapons Ambitions
 
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#5
#5
I love this story.

I read about this about a month or so back. This one is even better than penetrating the Kahn network and making sure the original centrifuges were designed to fail in a way that was extremely difficult to detect.
 
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#6
TennTradition said:
I love this story.

I read about this about a month or so back. This one is even better than penetrating the Kahn network and making sure the original centrifuges were designed to fail in a way that was extremely difficult to detect.
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TT do you agree with their assessment of Who it had to be.
 
#8
#8
orangeblooded2 said:
TT do you agree with their assessment of Who it had to be.
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I think that the Myrtus (sp?) connection is fairly weak, really. I'm also a bit suspect of the notion that no one western intelligence service could pull this off. It wouldn't be their officers, but they would have access to a team that could likely pull this off. It could be Israel, but I'm thinking this one starts closer to home (and without too many partners).
 
#9
#9
I think it was Monteryvol who said that the Army was the best at this type of thing.

I was actually thinking about the use of a quantum computer to write the code. What 10,000 days of code writing. Narrow that line of thought down to who might have it. I know they say it does not yet exsist but they are a generation or more ahead of what they say.
 
#10
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orangeblooded2 said:
I think it was Monteryvol who said that the Army was the best at this type of thing.

I was actually thinking about the use of a quantum computer to write the code. What 10,000 days of code writing. Narrow that line of thought down to who might have it. I know they say it does not yet exsist but they are a generation or more ahead of what they say.
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I don't think that quantum computing would really help write code, particularly this kind of code which is highly specific. Also, I really don't think that any one is employing quantum computing techniques at any real kind of scale. But, that is just my opinion.

As for the 10,000 man-days - that is a team of 30 programmers working on the project for one year. That doesn't seem too unreasonable.
 
#11
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TennTradition said:
I don't think that quantum computing would really help write code, particularly this kind of code which is highly specific. Also, I really don't think that any one is employing quantum computing techniques at any real kind of scale. But, that is just my opinion.

As for the 10,000 man-days - that is a team of 30 programmers working on the project for one year. That doesn't seem too unreasonable.
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I'm not an IT guy at all, but would be fascinated to know the number of test runs this got before it was implemented.
 
#12
#12
Sometimes I am stunned when everyone gets all worked up about the Chinese or whoever attacking our networks. Do you honestly not believe we could do far worse in return?

Our networks fail because of the guys who run them are not fully qualified and we have tons of them to attack. We do have certain networks that (so far) no one can crack or have even attempted to.
 
#13
#13
TennTradition said:
I don't think that quantum computing would really help write code, particularly this kind of code which is highly specific. Also, I really don't think that any one is employing quantum computing techniques at any real kind of scale. But, that is just my opinion.

As for the 10,000 man-days - that is a team of 30 programmers working on the project for one year. That doesn't seem too unreasonable.
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the size of the program isn't what caught my eye but it was the complexity. Possible it could have been done by one group/country but the expertise needed makes it hard to believe. We couldn't do that in my company and we're not writing anything this sophisticated

Lexvol said:
I'm not an IT guy at all, but would be fascinated to know the number of test runs this got before it was implemented.
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it would take a bunch but it could be tested in parts. I would bet they did some live testing and treated the worm like a boomerang without people even knowing. Put it on some random guy's computer and see if it comes back

I do wonder if they had actual hardware (like the centrifuges) to test it on though. Hard to know for sure what it will do without them and could be a possible paper trail
 
#14
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utvolpj said:
the size of the program isn't what caught my eye but it was the complexity. Possible it could have been done by one group/country but the expertise needed makes it hard to believe. We couldn't do that in my company and we're not writing anything this sophisticated



it would take a bunch but it could be tested in parts. I would bet they did some live testing and treated the worm like a boomerang without people even knowing. Put it on some random guy's computer and see if it comes back

I do wonder if they had actual hardware (like the centrifuges) to test it on though. Hard to know for sure what it will do without them and could be a possible paper trail
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The complexity is amazing, I agree. That's why I love the story.

As for the testing, I am sure there was a lot of unit testing and you're probably right about the bounce back. As for the equipment, I think that there is a very good chance that we had most of it, if we are the ones behind it. The control systems were probably not in place, so that would take some clever activity.

It's entirely possible that this was multinational, but I'm just not feeling it.
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#15
#15
the part that leads me to believe we weren't the only ones is this

One was Vacon, a Finnish Company, and the other Fararo Paya, an Iranian company. What surprises experts at this step is that the Iranian company was so secret that not even the IAEA knew about it.
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I know we're good but there's someone else that's closer and probably even better when it comes to Iran
 
#16
#16
utvolpj said:
the part that leads me to believe we weren't the only ones is this



I know we're good but there's someone else that's closer and probably even better when it comes to Iran
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Are you thinking Russia? That would certainly help them secure the Iran contract for Uranium sales/enrichment as was proposed a bit back. :)
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#17
#17
I was talking about the intel coming from Israel. Russia is interesting but not sure they would help us like that (and keep it quiet)
 
#18
#18
I find it funny that the quote was "even the IAEA didn't know about it."

There's a lot of stuff the IAEA doesn't know about. They aren't the most effective organization. I feel pretty comfortable in saying that there is almost nothing that the IAEA knows that we (and others) don't. Their walls talk.

On the other hand, there is a lot that we (and others) know, that the IAEA is not placed to have information about or is privy to. I'm not saying we definitely knew about this company, but I just found the quote funny.
 
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utvolpj said:
I was talking about the intel coming from Israel. Russia is interesting but not sure they would help us like that (and keep it quiet)
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Russia's not just helping us in keeping Iran working on their nuclear program and not completely get themselves into a deep pile of camel droppings.

Israel would certainly have great intel, but if Israel was behind the worm, they got help, IMO. There are very few people they would trust to get that help, you would think.
 
#20
#20
no I think the US was the lead but brought in "contractors" with expertise in certain areas. They may not have known exactly what the whole plan was but could do their part better/faster than we could.

I don't think we leave Israel completely out of it because something like this could help them to stand down on any plans to take out the facilities themselves.
 
#21
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utvolpj said:
the part that leads me to believe we weren't the only ones is this



I know we're good but there's someone else that's closer and probably even better when it comes to Iran
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Absolutely, Israel can reach out and touch people in just about any place in that particular region. The recent hits on Iranian nuclear scientist is the most recent example.
 
#22
#22
Why in all holy he'll was Iran running Windows 7?

Do they lack the complexity to write their own OS? I highly doubt it.

Least they could do would be to use LFS and modify as needed.

Very odd.
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#23
#23
I'm probably not giving Israel's cyber units enough credit on developing this, for what its worth. They may have had to lean on some friends for the physical equipment for testing, but that doesn't mean they didn't initiate it. Also, I think that they could muster a team of the size that would be required.

Maybe its just me wanting it to be us :).
 
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TennTradition said:
I'm probably not giving Israel's cyber units enough credit on developing this, for what its worth. They may have had to lean on some friends for the physical equipment for testing, but that doesn't mean they didn't initiate it. Also, I think that they could muster a team of the size that would be required.

Maybe its just me wanting it to be us :).
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If there are two things that Israel does better than most if not all it is developing and employing very specialized assets and intelligence gathering/covert operations.

Completely unrelated side note: I worked with a guy for years who was retired special forces (he didn't brag but confided in me after I told him my uncle was a Ranger/LRRP). He said the only two forces that could possibly compare to US Special Ops were the Russians and the Israelis, said there were none better than Israeli special forces.
 
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#25
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TennTradition said:
Maybe its just me wanting it to be us :).
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since it's Windows I would think we have access to the best sources. I don't think there's any way we didn't contribute a large chunk just not sure we could do it all on our own.

almost wish it was one country so the tech isn't too widespread
 
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