Is assassination of US citizens constitutional?

What is your opinion?


  • Total voters
    0
#1

gsvol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
14,179
Likes
11
#1
Although I don't neccessarily agree with the following blogger, he does raise an interesting point.


Targeted Assassinations…My, How Quiet The Liberals Are | Flopping Aces

While I don't disagree with the Administration over this policy, I find the whole situation ironic. It was just a few years ago liberals were crying and protesting all over the fact that the United States waterboarded a few high level terrorists.

But I guess it's ok to just a put a bullet in their head rather than making them a widdle bit scared with water eh?


WASHINGTON — Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. asserted on Monday that it is lawful for the government to kill American citizens if officials deem them to be operational leaders of Al Qaeda who are planning attacks on the United States and if capturing them alive is not feasible.

“Given the nature of how terrorists act and where they tend to hide, it may not always be feasible to capture a United States citizen terrorist who presents an imminent threat of violent attack,” Mr. Holder said in a speech at Northwestern University’s law school. “In that case, our government has the clear authority to defend the United States with lethal force.”

...While Mr. Holder is not the first administration official to address the targeted killing of citizens — the Pentagon’s general counsel, Jeh Johnson, did so last month at Yale Law School, for example — it was notable for the nation’s top law enforcement official to declare that it is constitutional for the government to kill citizens without any judicial review under certain circumstances. Mr. Holder’s remarks about the targeted killing of United States citizens were a centerpiece of a speech describing legal principles behind the Obama administration’s counterterrorism policies.

“Some have argued that the president is required to get permission from a federal court before taking action against a United States citizen who is a senior operational leader of Al Qaeda or associated forces,” Mr. Holder said. “This is simply not accurate. ‘Due process’ and ‘judicial process’ are not one and the same, particularly when it comes to national security. The Constitution guarantees due process, not judicial process.”

Personally I think the target's case should at least be reviewed in a court hearing prior to pulling the trigger.
 
#2
#2
Personally I think the target's case should at least be reviewed in a court hearing prior to pulling the trigger.


How would that be done?

Who was the fellow, the American citizen -- white by the way -- who joined Al Qaeda and helped them plan terror attacks? I think he recently got offed.

Just because you were born in Kansas does not exempt you from helping terrorists try to kill U.S. citizens.
 
#4
#4
Location is key. Overseas, armed conflict, heat of battle etc, you have no issue. If they surrender then you have to treat them differently than the rest of the prisoners.

US soil is a different story. You need to get a warrant just to listen to the phone calls (even with the Patriot Act), so killing them extra-judicially would be out of bounds. But, if they took a couple of rounds while resisting arrest that would be different.

Regardless, the bottom line is we can't just start assassinating our own people without some sort of judicial review, otherwise we'd stand the chance of political rivals being conveniently associated with AQ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#5
#5
Location is key. Overseas, armed conflict, heat of battle etc, you have no issue. If they surrender then you have to treat them differently than the rest of the prisoners.

US soil is a different story. You need to get a warrant just to listen to the phone calls (even with the Patriot Act), so killing them extra-judicially would be out of bounds. But, if they took a couple of rounds while resisting arrest that would be different.

Regardless, the bottom line is we can't just start assassinating our own people without some sort of judicial review, otherwise we'd stand the chance of political rivals being conveniently associated with AQ...

my understanding is that the distinctions you've raised are absent from the legislation. additionally, who is defining who/what a terrorist is, such that said "terrorist" may be assassinated pursuant to this law? DHS? their track record so far under napolitano has been to include tea partiers and returning military personnel as potential terrorists.
 
#6
#6
the wh press corps should ask jay "I make Robert Gibbs look like a genius" carney if, under this law, William ayers could have/ would have/ should have been assassinated by the federal government
 
#7
#7
I'm glad the guy is gone but when the WH will not even explain the "due process" that the guy was subject too we have a problem.

At a minimum, we need some transparency on the issue.
 
#8
#8
my understanding is that the distinctions you've raised are absent from the legislation. additionally, who is defining who/what a terrorist is, such that said "terrorist" may be assassinated pursuant to this law? DHS? their track record so far under napolitano has been to include tea partiers and returning military personnel as potential terrorists.

My understanding as well, this puts us on a slippery slope.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#9
#9
Article I Section 9.3: No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

In case you don't know: A bill of attainder (also known as an act of attainder or writ of attainder) is an act of a legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them without benefit of a judicial trial. - wiki

No one in his right mind can think that the Constitution forbids congress from declaring someone guilty of terrorism and issuing a writ to execute them and think that the Constitution does allow the President that prerogative.
 
#10
#10
While we're at it

Article III Section 3.1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
 
#11
#11
I'm glad the guy is gone but when the WH will not even explain the "due process" that the guy was subject too we have a problem.

At a minimum, we need some transparency on the issue.

The transparency is underwhelming to say the least.






the wh press corps should ask jay "I make Robert Gibbs look like a genius" carney if, under this law, William ayers could have/ would have/ should have been assassinated by the federal government

You may have the press corpse confused with real journalists.

You do present an interesting idea though, what if the right people were elected? Could they just go ahead and take him out?






my understanding is that the distinctions you've raised are absent from the legislation. additionally, who is defining who/what a terrorist is, such that said "terrorist" may be assassinated pursuant to this law? DHS? their track record so far under napolitano has been to include tea partiers and returning military personnel as potential terrorists.

Big sis and Holder seem to think more like the muslim brotherhood than they do the average American citizen.




Location is key. Overseas, armed conflict, heat of battle etc, you have no issue. If they surrender then you have to treat them differently than the rest of the prisoners.

US soil is a different story. You need to get a warrant just to listen to the phone calls (even with the Patriot Act), so killing them extra-judicially would be out of bounds. But, if they took a couple of rounds while resisting arrest that would be different.

Regardless, the bottom line is we can't just start assassinating our own people without some sort of judicial review, otherwise we'd stand the chance of political rivals being conveniently associated with AQ...

Sounds like nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia doesn't it?

Do the terms 'enemy of the state' and 'threat to national security' have anything in common?







How would that be done?

Who was the fellow, the American citizen -- white by the way -- who joined Al Qaeda and helped them plan terror attacks? I think he recently got offed.

Just because you were born in Kansas does not exempt you from helping terrorists try to kill U.S. citizens.


The same way we obtained warrants to tap phones?

IMO, I think any action taken should involve all three branches of government and not just the exective branch, otherwise the executive could in effect become the executioner and that is a power we should grant no one in this country.

Here is a three step plan;

1. DHS and DOJ agree, they take their evidence to a combined house/senate committee with members from intelligence and homeland security which meets behind closed doors and after reviewing the evidence in a timely manner they rule yes or no.

2. With approval from the legislative branch the evidence is then presented to a panel of judges appointed by the supreme court and after review (in a timely manner) they rule yes or no.

3. Having passed both those hurdles and finding that there no realistic possibility of apprehending the suspect, then and only then the executive branch plans and attempts to execute that plan.
 
#12
#12
my understanding is that the distinctions you've raised are absent from the legislation. additionally, who is defining who/what a terrorist is, such that said "terrorist" may be assassinated pursuant to this law? DHS? their track record so far under napolitano has been to include tea partiers and returning military personnel as potential terrorists.

I've been away from it for a few years now, but when I was catching them it was a problem if they were anything but Afghan and a big problem if we caught an American. I had an FBI team attached to my department just in case that happened. If the wording has changed to allow extra-judicial executions anywhere in the world, I have a big problem with that. That is Sandinistaesq in my view.
 
#13
#13
I've been away from it for a few years now, but when I was catching them it was a problem if they were anything but Afghan and a big problem if we caught an American. I had an FBI team attached to my department just in case that happened. If the wording has changed to allow extra-judicial executions anywhere in the world, I have a big problem with that. That is Sandinistaesq in my view.

FBI director Robert Meuler testified before congress this week (Thursday I believe), and when asked if this could happen on American soil answered something like; "I don't know, I have to ask around."

Everything about the current administration is Sandanistaesq in my view.
 
#14
#14
107702_600.jpg


107763_600.jpg


2qtvhqe.jpg
 
#16
#16
I have a feeling if this happened under Bush's watch, you would be singing a different tune.

Are you trying to say that you think gs would have been ok with W offing Jose Padilla (for example)? I have a feeling that no word of protest for his unconstitutional treatment ever passed his keyboard.
 
#18
#18
Are you trying to say that you think gs would have been ok with W offing Jose Padilla (for example)? I have a feeling that no word of protest for his unconstitutional treatment ever passed his keyboard.

That is exactly what I am saying. Thank you for the assist :hi:
 

VN Store



Back
Top