Is there a HOA lawyer in the house?

#1
HoleInTheRoof

HoleInTheRoof

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#1
Just bought a home in NC. Has an HOA.

Two weeks after moving in, downstairs bathroom overflows while the washing machine and dishwasher were running. Drain was very slow. I called a plumber who discovered the main drain line in the front of my house had a hole in it and tree roots were clogging the line. Cost me $700 to get that cleared.

That was two weeks ago, Friday.

This past Friday, same thing happened although the overflow wasn't as significant since I didn't have as much water. But things wouldn't drain. Called a different plumber from another reputable company (was first available) and they cleared even more root out. That cost about $460.

The first plumber just used a high pressure water jet to knock what was caught in the roots free. The second plumber actually ran a high tech snake in the line to cut/grind the roots.


I contacted the HOA about this issue and having it fixed. My belief is they should cover it, being its outside the house.

They responded that they're only responsible for the pruning etc of the tree and other landscaping. Each home has a maple planted in front and it's a requirement by the HOA it be there.

I was talking to my neighbor who lives immediately to my left, and she said the same thing happened to her years ago (thought 2009) and the HOA took care of it. Made the repairs and even replaced carpet and bathroom flooring after the flood. Neighbor said this has happened to a couple of homes in the neighborhood.

Both plumbers said that the break in the PVC likely occurred during construction (built in 2006/7). It's a large hole in the pipe approximately a foot inside where it runs under my driveway. Said likely from a back ho.

My HOA is sticking to their guns that they aren't responsible. And I know they have a lot of HOA documents that I can check, but they're written by lawyers and I have a low IQ.

First question is..... should the HOA be responsible? If there are HOA documents I need to check, what would they be titled? (There's a lot of them listed on the community website)

If I have to sue, is there a such thing as HOA lawyers, or if not is there a specific specialty I should look with regards to a lawyer. I've never had to (potentially) sue.

Any advice is appreciated. State is NC
 
#3
#3
I can't see how the HOA would be responsible but first step would be to carefully read all the HOA bylaws. I think you would be wasting money paying a lawyer to do it, money you could probably use to fix the pipe.
 
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#5
#5
If the HOA requires a maple tree in the front yard, then they should also require the contractors who installed the plumbing and other underground utilities to be aware of the potential damages caused by those maple trees growing.
 
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#6
#6
I would have brought it to the attention of the HOA before I paid to have the repairs done. You may have a case, but looks like you are out only about 1400 and you would have to weigh that lost cost against the cost to fight it in court. Would also suggest you have someone go over the HOA bylaws to determine what liability the HOA has. My last suggestion is to sell your house lol....HOAs are awful and they will always be a pain in the ass. I deal with one with a condo rental I have and over the last 5 years, they have increased the HOA fees from 80 a month to 175 a month........no gym, no pool, no nothing lol. Basically pays for the roof insurance and yard work for a 2x2 patch of grass.
 
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#7
#7
I haven’t had any repairs done other than unclogging the pipes and clearing the existing roots grown into the tree.

But there remains a gaping hole on the top of the pipe where roots will grow back in the future.

The cost to repair that will cost at a minimum 1500, assuming they don’t have to cut up my driveway and/or encounter any other nearby utilities
 
#9
#9
HoleInTheRoof said:
I haven’t had any repairs done other than unclogging the pipes and clearing the existing roots grown into the tree.

But there remains a gaping hole on the top of the pipe where roots will grow back in the future.

The cost to repair that will cost at a minimum 1500, assuming they don’t have to cut up my driveway and/or encounter any other nearby utilities
Click to expand...

Be cheaper to poison the tree.
 
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#10
#10
Talk to your plumbers and see if they can insert an internal sleeve to repair the pipe.
 
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#14
#14
If there's a rule requiring the tree, it likely was part of the CC&Rs in the original entitlements when the neighborhood was developed, and who knows, it may even have been included at the direction of the municipality. The HOA was created to enforce all those rules and manage and maintain the neighborhood, but it didn't build any of that or make up the rules (although I'm sure it has added a few).

Typically the HOA is only responsible for the common areas of the neighborhood and homeowners are responsible for anything inside their own lots. I guess there may be a chance that the HOA could be found responsible if it is the legal successor to the developer, but it sure seems shaky and you'd still have to show there was original negligence in not requiring extra measures to prevent root intrusion into the sewer lateral.

Speaking of which, it's going to happen again. If the roots have already intruded into the pipe, they'll keep growing and clog it again. You can hire that guy to come out periodically to grind the roots or you can dig down and replace the impacted section of the pipe.

Also, I guess technically the municipality probably could force you to fix it permanently on the grounds that the cracked pipe allows stormwater into their sewer system and potentially allows untreated sewage to seep out into the groundwater. I really doubt it's on their radar though. Just throwing everything out there.
 
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#16
#16
DancingOutlaw said:
Be cheaper to poison the tree.
Click to expand...

Best way to kill a maple? Copper nails work?

malinoisvol said:
Talk to your plumbers and see if they can insert an internal sleeve to repair the pipe.
Click to expand...

Solid idea. Considered something similar myself. Half cutting a small section of a metal pipe that is in the scrap pile in the machine shop here at work, and then just digging around the whole and trying to get it under the drive way on the hole.


Thanks to all who provided useful feedback.
 
#18
#18
pismonque said:
If there's a rule requiring the tree, it likely was part of the CC&Rs in the original entitlements when the neighborhood was developed, and who knows, it may even have been included at the direction of the municipality. The HOA was created to enforce all those rules and manage and maintain the neighborhood, but it didn't build any of that or make up the rules (although I'm sure it has added a few).

Typically the HOA is only responsible for the common areas of the neighborhood and homeowners are responsible for anything inside their own lots. I guess there may be a chance that the HOA could be found responsible if it is the legal successor to the developer, but it sure seems shaky and you'd still have to show there was original negligence in not requiring extra measures to prevent root intrusion into the sewer lateral.

Speaking of which, it's going to happen again. If the roots have already intruded into the pipe, they'll keep growing and clog it again. You can hire that guy to come out periodically to grind the roots or you can dig down and replace the impacted section of the pipe.

Also, I guess technically the municipality probably could force you to fix it permanently on the grounds that the cracked pipe allows stormwater into their sewer system and potentially allows untreated sewage to seep out into the groundwater. I really doubt it's on their radar though. Just throwing everything out there.
Click to expand...

My biggest issue is that the roots only intruded because the pipe was damaged during construction. Roots aren't going to break throught PVC-40 on their own. So this thing was damaged during construction.

Additionally - per my neighbor who had the same issue - there is a history of this happening previously where the HOA both knew about it and paid for repairs. Not only to repair the damaged pipe but also replaced the carpet in the bedroom and bathroom flooring where it flooded.


I don't know. I've never owned a home with an HOA. It seems like if I am required to have that tree, then they need to assume some/all the costs here.
 
#19
#19
HoleInTheRoof said:
My biggest issue is that the roots only intruded because the pipe was damaged during construction. Roots aren't going to break throught PVC-40 on their own. So this thing was damaged during construction.

Additionally - per my neighbor who had the same issue - there is a history of this happening previously where the HOA both knew about it and paid for repairs. Not only to repair the damaged pipe but also replaced the carpet in the bedroom and bathroom flooring where it flooded.

I don't know. I've never owned a home with an HOA. It seems like if I am required to have that tree, then they need to assume some/all the costs here.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but damage during construction would be on the builder, and good luck with that one. I get your point about the tree rule but parsing that responsibility out gets too far into lawyerdom for me.

It is interesting about the neighbor though. Why not just ask the HOA straight up what the difference is between his case and yours? Could be the only difference is who was serving on the board at that time.
 
#20
#20
pismonque said:
Yeah, but damage during construction would be on the builder, and good luck with that one. I get your point about the tree rule but parsing that responsibility out gets too far into lawyerdom for me.

It is interesting about the neighbor though. Why not just ask the HOA straight up what the difference is between his case and yours? Could be the only difference is who was serving on the board at that time.
Click to expand...

I've mentioned that in Emails, but it doesn't get acknowledged in responses.

The president of the board has changed since it happened to my neighbor.
 
#21
#21
HoleInTheRoof said:
Best way to kill a maple? Copper nails work?



Solid idea. Considered something similar myself. Half cutting a small section of a metal pipe that is in the scrap pile in the machine shop here at work, and then just digging around the whole and trying to get it under the drive way on the hole.


Thanks to all who provided useful feedback.
Click to expand...

Boil you some peanuts and pour leftover water at the base of tree. Tree dead.
 
#23
#23
pismonque said:
Yeah, but damage during construction would be on the builder, and good luck with that one. I get your point about the tree rule but parsing that responsibility out gets too far into lawyerdom for me.

It is interesting about the neighbor though. Why not just ask the HOA straight up what the difference is between his case and yours? Could be the only difference is who was serving on the board at that time.
Click to expand...

I was a legal assistant at a firm that represented HOAs, when they sued or were sued. It doesn't surprise me that the won't talk about the other neighbor. We had people calling in wanting the neighbors same treatments, but we couldn't discuss situations except for theirs.
 
#24
#24
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
HOA's are the devil, and quite honestly I don't understand how they are legal.
Click to expand...

I wonder about them as well. Our HOA here is only 100.00 per year and in Montana everyone has a boat or camper. So driveways are full of outdoor gear... even though the HOA says it needs to be hidden out of view.

I misplaced my HOA bill last year and they sent another to me with a stern warning they would get legal with me and file a lien against my house if I did not pay on time.

I get invites to the yearly meeting of the HOA... never go, and likely better not as well.
 
#25
#25
OP I will say no attorney is going to take this case for you. You might see it as a lot of money, buy attorneys at this point won't and will charge you at an hourly rate likely $250+.

You and your plumbers that have come out have said it is the builders fault, so of course the hoa will take this position.

I think your best bet is to go to the board and request to remove the tree. If you can show it is causing damage to your home and they deny you the right to remove the tree and it causes more damage, then you'd likely have a case.

Just because they handle things one way for one homeowner, doesn't mean you will get the same treatment. Plus that was many years ago, and they may have changed their bylaws since then to change their language after they had to pay out for your neighbor and maybe others.
 
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