Is this the end of Ahmadinejad?

#1
MontereyVol

MontereyVol

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#1
Looks like Mousavi is declaring victory.........

a little early since so has Ahmadinejad (from earlier). Just wondering if any of you are following this?
 
#4
#4
I would find it very hard to believe Ahmadinejad or Iran for that matter would let this happen. I figured the vote would have been rigged. Maybe the country is more open and democratic than I first thought.
 
#6
#6
KB5252 said:
I would find it very hard to believe Ahmadinejad or Iran for that matter would let this happen. I figured the vote would have been rigged. Maybe the country is more open and democratic than I first thought.
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i'm going to await and see if the opponent survives till they take office before i pat the iranians on the back.
 
#7
#7
I would say it boils down to who Ali Khamenei voted for and he isn't exactly friendly to Ahmadinejad.
 
#8
#8
A little. It's hard to tell what's going on in elections, as they are happening. I am waiting for the dust to settle, though.
 
#9
#9
does it really matter if that position never has the final say in anything?
 
#10
#10
Doesn't matter. The Mullah's and Imam's hold all the real power anyway.

....although, I will say that the younger generation over there is very progressive and westernized. I think the older religious nuts will slowly become more and more marginalized.
 
#11
#11
state run TV has declared Ahmadinejad the victor. Looks like it will be a while before it's sorted out
 
#12
#12
rjd970 said:
Doesn't matter. The Mullah's and Imam's hold all the real power anyway.

....although, I will say that the younger generation over there is very progressive and westernized. I think the older religious nuts will slowly become more and more marginalized.
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The world will continue to live in fear of barbarians as long as the people in barbarian-run countries live in the type of minute-to-minute fear that previously had only existed under Soviet control.

We can only hope for a Muslim Reformation that will advance the society from terror to an open and free (and educated) one.
 
#13
#13
Well, Good idea to declare Ahmadinejad the winner by a landslide. In one broad stroke the powers that be in Iran just F'ed itself.
 
#16
#16
Its pretty obvious the election was a farce.

Now we have to wait and see if the protest have any sustainability.
 
#17
#17
So what does Obama do? Does he continue to push for direct talks with Ahmadinejad thus endorsing the farce or do he reach out to the moderates and those pushing for change.

He has an opportunity here to send a powerful message to those pushing for reform in Iran - hope he takes it.
 
#18
#18
volinbham said:
So what does Obama do? Does he continue to push for direct talks with Ahmadinejad thus endorsing the farce or do he reach out to the moderates and those pushing for change.

He has an opportunity here to send a powerful message to those pushing for reform in Iran - hope he takes it.
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I'd sever diplomatic ties. The moderates are making their voices heard; if Obama continues to push for talks with Ahmadinejad it amounts to endorsement of the election results (which will foment the anti-Ahmadinejad forces into anti-American ones). If he breaks off talks, it demonstrates that he does not recognize the election as having been legitimate, which would rally further support for the moderates.

There may well be a civil war over this; I dare say I fear one is inevitable.
 
#19
#19
Ohio Vol said:
I'd sever diplomatic ties. The moderates are making their voices heard; if Obama continues to push for talks with Ahmadinejad it amounts to endorsement of the election results (which will foment the anti-Ahmadinejad forces into anti-American ones). If he breaks off talks, it demonstrates that he does not recognize the election as having been legitimate, which would rally further support for the moderates.

There may well be a civil war over this; I dare say I fear one is inevitable.
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I don't know that that is the worst thing that could happen.
 
#20
#20
Both candidates were very conservative at least. The moderates supported the other guy because he was the closest to them albeit by a mile. Both supported a nuclear program. And as was previously stated, the mullahs are the driving force behind the day to day running of the government. The revolutionary guard is the force behind the nuclear program and a change in leadership would not affect that.

Obama and his supporters were counting on a win here to add credibility to his claim he made a difference in the Lebanese vote as well - which is a load. Lebanon voted moderate out of desire to avoid another invasion. Netanyahu is more inclined to take out threats in Lebanon with less damage all around. Lebanese knew any tilt to extremism would put them as the IDF's next training op day after the election.

Obama is in a position where he has to use Bush type tactics or risk watching the place implode. Bush Sr. squandered a similar chance with Iraq right after the first Gulf War. This time nuclear program is on the line. It will be interesting to see what happens. My guess is that his brain trust is sitting up there scratching their heads and Mahmoud recovers before anything can be done from our end.
 
#21
#21
CSpindizzy said:
Both candidates were very conservative at least. The moderates supported the other guy because he was the closest to them albeit by a mile. Both supported a nuclear program. And as was previously stated, the mullahs are the driving force behind the day to day running of the government. The revolutionary guard is the force behind the nuclear program and a change in leadership would not affect that.

Obama and his supporters were counting on a win here to add credibility to his claim he made a difference in the Lebanese vote as well - which is a load. Lebanon voted moderate out of desire to avoid another invasion. Netanyahu is more inclined to take out threats in Lebanon with less damage all around. Lebanese knew any tilt to extremism would put them as the IDF's next training op day after the election.

Obama is in a position where he has to use Bush type tactics or risk watching the place implode. Bush Sr. squandered a similar chance with Iraq right after the first Gulf War. This time nuclear program is on the line. It will be interesting to see what happens. My guess is that his brain trust is sitting up there scratching their heads and Mahmoud recovers before anything can be done from our end.
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Well Mousavi condemned the Holocaust, wants to review laws he sees as discriminatory towards women, and wants to take steps towards warming relations with countries like the US whose relationship with Iran has been strained over the years. He may not be the absolute ideal leader, but he would be a major step in the right direction based on those things alone.
 
#23
#23
The truly regrettable thing is the United States will probably have to bitch slap the Persians before we get any respect in the region, matter of fact that's a good idea being as Iran dictates policy seemingly in the region. If we don't do it Israel will.
 
#24
#24
Looks like even three weeks before, polls showed a similar outcome. Knowing your guy is going to get trounced makes it more likely his supporters will tend to stay home.

Pre-election Iranian poll showed Ahmadinejad support | World | Reuters

Obama must realize the hard facts that thugs are not the type to just roll over and advocate mass changes in policy just because he politely urges them to. We're dealing with thugs and they will do what it takes to remain in power and get their way. Saying 'let's all get along' does not bring long lasting peace. It at most only delays the inevitable and if anything helps give the thugs more legitimacy and more time to solidify their control. While Obama plays footsie, the Iranian opposition identifies itself for disappearance and enables the nuclear program to continue. Once this program is elevated to weapons, Iran has the bargaining chip it needs to get others to cave in to demands. Plus it has the ability to do evn more thuggish things with less repercussions - Iran knows the world is less likely to respond forcefully, knowing they have the bomb.
 
#25
#25
It's now no longer "if" they develop the bomb, it's how many and what delivery capabilities they acquire.
 
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