Israel vs Palestinians

#20,053
#20,053
85SugarVol said:
Bwaaaaa…. Al Jazeera? Get out of here.

Reuters & AP both are usually pretty neutral, but even they show their biases.

But I was talking about individual journalists. Do you know of any that accurately report both sides? I’m guessing even Reuters has journos that cover one side or the other.
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Since when has Israel let in foreign journalists?
 
#20,055
#20,055
hog88 said:
If you're going to pick a fight, you are responsible for clearing your loved ones out so they don't get hurt/involved.
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The problem with this is that Hamas and Palestinians think Israel picked the fight. You're acting like it started on 10/7. It did not. This is why the only reasonable way to look at it is to say the person pulling the trigger is responsible. JFC. I can't even believe this is a take.
 
#20,056
#20,056
hog88 said:
No, choosing to kill civilians is not necessarily murder. If those civilians are participating in or aiding the war effort they are fair game.
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you knowingly shoot a medic, its murder.
you knowingly shoot an aide worker, its murder.
you create a corridor for your own stated purposes of civilian egress and then bomb it, its murder.

even if they are involved tangentially in the war effort somehow and their deaths serves no military function, its murder. it would be one thing if you were storming an arms factory, or somewhere that processes food into MREs, and some civilians got shot on site. its completely another issue when that same worker is at home with his family and you purposefully bomb his home far away from any military target. the worker is replaced, and the war moves on without even noticing his loss. especially questionable when you know when said worker is working, and where said worker is working, and you choose his home instead of the factory.
 
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#20,057
#20,057
hog88 said:
Killing is not always murder and you said "murdering civilians". Keep your story straight.
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You're arguing technicalities and semantics and you're still not right if we're deciding it based on technicalities and semantics. For you to be right, there would have to be no murders. Not one. There is no way that is the case.
 
#20,061
#20,061
n_huffhines said:
The problem with this is that Hamas and Palestinians think Israel picked the fight. You're acting like it started on 10/7. It did not. This is why the only reasonable way to look at it is to say the person pulling the trigger is responsible. JFC. I can't even believe this is a take.
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Being stupid can be costly and Hamas was stupid.

Hamas pulled the trigger first and Israel is not going to allow them to pull it again, that is the only reasonable way to look at it.
 
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#20,062
#20,062
LouderVol said:
you knowingly shoot a medic, its murder.
you knowingly shoot an aide worker, its murder.
you create a corridor for your own stated purposes of civilian egress and then bomb it, its murder.

even if they are involved tangentially in the war effort somehow and their deaths serves no military function, its murder. it would be one thing if you were storming an arms factory, or somewhere that processes food into MREs, and some civilians got shot on site. its completely another issue when that same worker is at home with his family and you purposefully bomb his home far away from any military target. the worker is replaced, and the war moves on without even noticing his loss. especially questionable when you know when said worker is working, and where said worker is working, and you choose his home instead of the factory.
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Only if you lose....

But what was that medic, aid worker or whatever doing at the time? Who was beside them and what were they doing, helluva lot variables to declare murder.
 
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#20,063
#20,063
hog88 said:
Why not?
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however many actual dead will always be worse than any greater number of possible dead.

many of the worst atrocities performed by mankind are done under the auspices of preventing a future problem. and most of those atrocities end up being ineffective anyway. usually misguided and based off of false assumptions pushed by slanted reasoning.

its a pretty safe assumption that both sides would have come to the conclusion of MAD even without having two cities deleted. they had their own tests and data. especially when it comes to the realm of the newer nukes that moved beyond WW2 technology, those are incredibly more dangerous than what we dropped on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. we didn't have to kill anyone with them to know not to use them.
 
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#20,064
#20,064
n_huffhines said:
You're arguing technicalities and semantics and you're still not right if we're deciding it based on technicalities and semantics. For you to be right, there would have to be no murders. Not one. There is no way that is the case.
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That's ignorant. I kill you for no reason it's murder, I kill you for profit it's murder, I kill you because I just don't like you it's murder. I kill you because you are aiding the people trying to kill me, that is not murder.
 
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#20,065
#20,065
Orangeslice13 said:
Ya, I already said I’d have done this differently if I was Israel.
Although most would not like my way either.

No food, no water, no power till I have all the hostages and the Hamas leaders in my possession
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war is indeed hell. but its a hell of our choices. we don't pass responsibility because someone else started it.
 
#20,067
#20,067
hog88 said:
That's ignorant. I kill you for no reason it's murder, I kill you for profit it's murder, I kill you because I just don't like you it's murder. I kill you because you are aiding the people trying to kill me, that is not murder.
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So if a reckless cop kills my son, I'm not responsible for killing his family. Got it.

Edit: quoted wrong post nut you get it
 
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#20,068
#20,068
85SugarVol said:
Yes, it is a State for a particular ethnicity - Jews.
And a State for a particular religion - Judaism.

It is the only one in the world. Pretty unique.
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Going back to your original comment:
The United States wasn’t created for a group or a people.
Israel was. Guess what people the State of Israel was created for?
Israel's not the only country to be created for a certain group of people. It's hardly unique.
 
#20,070
#20,070
hog88 said:
They are accountable if they lose. That is the way the game of war works so if you don't like the rules, don't play.
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If your version of accountability is dependent on someone with more power forcing you to be accountable, then it’s very clear that “accountability is not your thing”
 
#20,072
#20,072
n_huffhines said:
You're arguing technicalities and semantics and you're still not right if we're deciding it based on technicalities and semantics. For you to be right, there would have to be no murders. Not one. There is no way that is the case.
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its all semantics and technicalities.

semantics and technicalities those at war have no latitude to figure out in the middle of the fight. which its why those of us at peace and on the sidelines can establish those technicalities and semantics, so that the next time, its a little bit better. its why we should all be pushing for peace, to allow for those distinctions to be made, and to end the current mess. regardless of who started it.
 
#20,074
#20,074
hog88 said:
Only if you lose....

But what was that medic, aid worker or whatever doing at the time? Who was beside them and what were they doing, helluva lot variables to declare murder.
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if they are acting beyond their no-go roles, and you can prove it to a battlefield level of certainty, sure. but thats not what we are seeing. even today/recently Netanyahu is having to admit the bombing of the food convoy shouldn't have happened. ignoring that as a matter of war only leads to more death and suffering, not a better outcome for either side.

when seeking revenge, before you leave, dig two graves.
 
#20,075
#20,075
NashVol11 said:
If your version of accountability is dependent on someone with more power forcing you to be accountable, then it’s very clear that “accountability is not your thing”
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We're talking about war, not putting the toilet seat down.

Nations should always do everything within their power and within reason to avoid war. War is an abomination, it's horror, it's despicable, but when a nation is forced into war the one goal should always be to permanently and without prejudice eliminate the threat. Trying to fight a humane war is a fools errand.
 
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