It all starts with the perimeter defense

[omghulkhands]

When you break down defensively on the perimeter your forwards are forced to bring help defense. This is what has been killing us all year long, opposing teams see it in the game film and just execute the same dribble penetration plays over and over leaving us in shambles. Wait....did you hear it? yup...another Tarik Black slam dunk.


Typically you use a zone defense to keep perimeter players in front of you when you lack speed/quickness, but that has already been discussed here ad nauseum. It looks like adapt or die this season, we have seen enough to know that what we are doing now is not working.

 

[zjcvols]

When you break down defensively on the perimeter your forwards are forced to bring help defense. This is what has been killing us all year long, opposing teams see it in the game film and just execute the same dribble penetration plays over and over leaving us in shambles. Wait....did you hear it? yup...another Tarik Black slam dunk.


Typically you use a zone defense to keep perimeter players in front of you when you lack speed/quickness, but that has already been discussed here ad nauseum. It looks like adapt or die this season, we have seen enough to know that what we are doing now is not working.

We aren't good enough to play zone anyway. I don't trust our team.

We are just going to have the lumps defensively, just like offensively.

 

[goodtobegoad]

im not saying we would be any better in zone, but at least try it. especially when mcbee is in the game or even kenny hall. it was obvious kenny couldnt handle black in the post even by the first game in maui (when black wasnt in foul trouble). it would at least give us a chance. cause it was quite obvious memphis was driving and dishing with ease. sometimes even on our most athletic players.

 

[omghulkhands]

We aren't good enough to play zone anyway. I don't trust our team.

We are just going to have the lumps defensively, just like offensively.

I agree, you can't reasonably install a zone when they have not practiced it all year. I find it totally reasonable to just reduce the minutes McRae and Tatum see drastically in favor of anyone who can keep a guard from blowing by them. Golden of course is a horrible defender, but when he is playing well on offense we can't afford to not have him out there

 

[zjcvols]

I agree, you can't reasonably install a zone when they have not practiced it all year. I find it totally reasonable to just reduce the minutes McRae and Tatum see drastically in favor of anyone who can keep a guard from blowing by them. Golden of course is a horrible defender, but when he is playing well on offense we can't afford to not have him out there

Richardson can. He just can't provide any offense.

And then you got McRae, who can't play D either.

 

[goodtobegoad]

I agree, you can't reasonably install a zone when they have not practiced it all year. I find it totally reasonable to just reduce the minutes McRae and Tatum see drastically in favor of anyone who can keep a guard from blowing by them. Golden of course is a horrible defender, but when he is playing well on offense we can't afford to not have him out there

and the questions is why didnt we install a little something that is diffrent? i hope our players are that stupid that they could only manage to comprehend man to man defense. I don't like mcrae or tatums play lately either, but who would we go to next? tyler summit?

 

[zjcvols]

and the questions is why didnt we install a little something that is diffrent? i hope our players are that stupid that they could only manage to comprehend man to man defense. I don't like mcrae or tatums play lately either, but who would we go to next? tyler summit?

Do they look like high basketball IQ players on the court?

 

[calban]

I agree, you can't reasonably install a zone when they have not practiced it all year. I find it totally reasonable to just reduce the minutes McRae and Tatum see drastically in favor of anyone who can keep a guard from blowing by them. Golden of course is a horrible defender, but when he is playing well on offense we can't afford to not have him out there

According to Zo they have practiced zone.
Maybe he figures they'd be even worse.

 

[omghulkhands]

and the questions is why didnt we install a little something that is diffrent? i hope our players are that stupid that they could only manage to comprehend man to man defense. I don't like mcrae or tatums play lately either, but who would we go to next? tyler summit?

Richardson, wes, hell I would even consider moving swiper back up to the 3

 

[goodtobegoad]

Do they look like high basketball IQ players on the court?

they don't look dumb to me? on offense they struggle because they force things. they dont have one person that can break a great defender down on the dribble and create. i feel when golden is hitting outside they lunge and little more and he finds holes. besides that there is no one. and defensively we look pretty good (besides mcbee, golden, hall)...and thats where the zone hides them...but i feel that our team is by no means dumb

 

[omghulkhands]

According to Zo they have practiced zone.
Maybe he figures they'd be even worse.

It wouldn't surprise me if we were worse in a zone. Zone is about positioning and we literally have no comprehension of that

 

[goodtobegoad]

Richardson, wes, hell I would even consider moving swiper back up to the 3

i wouldnt mind seeing swiper there if he continues to play tough d and bring some offense. as for richardson and wes, they havent shown enough offensively. that would even put more pressure on trae at the point. mcrae potential to become a stud scoring threat will get him mintues. as for tatum, at this point ive seen enough to rather play even tyler summit himself!...but as for mcrae he needs the mintues still!...hes only a somphmore!

 

[Spartacavolus]

They should have been playing zone a lot more. Trap out of it or whatever. I don't like that CM is being stubborn about man to man only. You are supposed to do what's needed to win the game in front of you.

I also don't know what's up with the "motion offense". It consisted of Trae walking the ball up, setting a pick on his left hand and passing it around. If you are running a slowpaced half court O, you better have a good pg, multiple shooters and a decent bigman. We have none, so why walk it up. The only chance with this team is to push the pace and get some good looks.

 

[zjcvols]

They should have been playing zone a lot more. Trap out of it or whatever. I don't like that CM is being stubborn about man to man only. You are supposed to do what's needed to win the game in front of you.

I also don't know what's up with the "motion offense". It consisted of Trae walking the ball up, setting a pick on his left hand and passing it around. If you are running a slowpaced half court O, you better have a good pg, multiple shooters and a decent bigman. We have none, so why walk it up. The only chance with this team is to push the pace and get some good looks.

We have practiced zone.

What if we are worse in zone?

 

[Spartacavolus]

We have practiced zone.

What if we are worse in zone?

Let's find out. At least make them hit some shots, instead of dunk after dunk.

 

[zjcvols]

Let's find out. At least make them hit some shots, instead of dunk after dunk.

And then they penetrate the zone for more dunks.

I don't think we would be a good zone team.

 

[omghulkhands]

i wouldnt mind seeing swiper there if he continues to play tough d and bring some offense. as for richardson and wes, they havent shown enough offensively. that would even put more pressure on trae at the point. mcrae potential to become a stud scoring threat will get him mintues. as for tatum, at this point ive seen enough to rather play even tyler summit himself!...but as for mcrae he needs the mintues still!...hes only a somphmore!

I cant agree about McRae, he is always a defensive liability and is an offensive liability half the time. So basically he is a total liability 3/4 of the time.

 

[goodtobegoad]

And then they penetrate the zone for more dunks.

I don't think we would be a good zone team.

your just talking out of your azz. are you coach martin? you seem just as stubborn about going man only. were just saying give it a try. if i dont work then it doesnt work. but be realistic our man defense against athletic guards or a good post is not very good!

 

[zjcvols]

your just talking out of your azz. are you coach martin? you seem just as stubborn about going man only. were just saying give it a try. if i dont work then it doesnt work. but be realistic our man defense against athletic guards or a good post is not very good!

Then what makes you think we can be a good zone defense? I'm saying it wouldn't matter.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Then what makes you think we can be a good zone defense? I'm saying it wouldn't matter.

It's ok to criticize the coaches mistakes or question him. It doesn't mean one is a hater or wants BP back. You seem to be defending every aspect of the game tonight. That's not objective.

 

[goodtobegoad]

I cant agree about McRae, he is always a defensive liability and is an offensive liability half the time. So basically he is a total liability 3/4 of the time.

i can see what your coming from. what im trying to say though is you have a guy that if he puts it all together can give you twenty points a game. we dont have that potential with any other player you put in. so you bank he finds whatever missing and becomes that impact offensive player we need. i dont see him getting beat on defensive very much though?

 

[omghulkhands]

I think it is worth mentioning that our on ball defense in the post has been pretty good. What has been terrible is our bad rotating and positioning

 

[goodtobegoad]

Then what makes you think we can be a good zone defense? I'm saying it wouldn't matter.

we might not be better. all were saying is give it a try. it couldnt be much worse. the potential is there with long rangy players and post who could guard on the sides (maymon and swiperboy are atheltic enough to cover the corner). all were saying is try something new and have a wrinkle in the d to confuse an opposing team when they struggle to shoot from the perimeter

 

[zjcvols]

we might not be better. all were saying is give it a try. it couldnt be much worse. the potential is there with long rangy players and post who could guard on the sides (maymon and swiperboy are atheltic enough to cover the corner). all were saying is try something new and have a wrinkle in the d to confuse an opposing team when they struggle to shoot from the perimeter

Coach Martin has said they have practiced zone defense this year.

He might have seen it, and saw it was really bad.

 

[goodtobegoad]

I think it is worth mentioning that our on ball defense in the post has been pretty good. What has been terrible is our bad rotating and positioning

its also worth mentioning we havent played many teams with good post players...and when we did there were some stuggles (pitt-robinosn memphis first game-adonis thomas duke-plumlee (double digit boards) and kelly facing up outside and tonight with black)