It's the Elderly, Stupid - at least according to Robert Samuelson

#1

Redstater

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#1
The reason the debt issue is an intractable problem is no one wants to tell their parents that they are the problem.

Robert J. Samuelson: It’s the elderly, stupid
By Robert J. Samuelson
Thursday, Jul 28, 2011
If leadership is the capacity to take people where they need to go — whether or not they realize it or want it — then we’ve had almost no leadership in these weeks of frustrating and maddening debate over the budget and debt ceiling. There’s been an unspoken consensus among President Obama, congressional Democrats and Republicans not to discuss the central issue underlying the standoff. We’ve heard lots about “compromise” or its absence. We’ve had dueling budgets with differing mixes of spending cuts and tax increases. But we’ve heard almost nothing of the main problem that makes the budget so intractable.

It’s the elderly, stupid.

By now, it’s obvious that we need to rewrite the social contract that, over the past half-century, has transformed the federal government’s main task into transferring income from workers to retirees. In 1960, national defense was the government’s main job; it constituted 52 percent of federal outlays. In 2011 — even with two wars — it is 20 percent and falling. Meanwhile, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other retiree programs constitute roughly half of non-interest federal spending.

These transfers have become so huge that, unless checked, they will sabotage America’s future. The facts are known: By 2035, the 65-and-over population will nearly double, and health costs remain uncontrolled; the combination automatically expands federal spending (as a share of the economy) by about one-third from 2005 levels. This tidal wave of spending means one or all of the following: (a) much higher taxes; (b) the gutting of other government services, from the Weather Service to medical research; (c) a partial and dangerous disarmament; (d) large and unstable deficits.

Older Americans do not intend to ruin America, but as a group, that’s what they’re about. On average, the federal government supports each American 65 and over by about $26,000 a year (about $14,000 through Social Security, $12,000 through Medicare). At 65, the average American will live almost 20 more years. Should these sizable annual subsidies begin later and be less for some? It’s hard to discuss the budget realistically if you ignore most of what the budget does.

That’s been our course. Obama poses as one brave guy for even broaching “entitlement reform” with fellow Democrats. What he hasn’t done is to ask — in language that is clear and comprehensible to ordinary people — whether many healthy, reasonably well-off seniors deserve all the subsidies they receive. That would be leadership. Obama is having none of it. But the shunning is bipartisan. Tea Party advocates broadly deplore government spending without acknowledging that most of it goes for popular Social Security and Medicare.

I have written about these issues for years. But facts are no match for the self-interest of about 50 million Social Security and Medicare recipients and a natural sympathy for older people and for people who eagerly look forward to retirement. Public opinion becomes contradictory. While 70 percent of respondents in a Pew Research Center poll judged budget deficits a “major problem,” 64 percent rejected higher Medicare premiums and 58 percent opposed gradual increases in Social Security’s retirement age.

What sustains these contradictions is a mythology holding that, once people hit 65, most become poor. This justifies political dogma among Democrats that resists Social Security or Medicare cuts of even one dollar.

But the premise is wrong. True, some elderly live hand-to-mouth; many more are comfortable, and some are wealthy. The Kaiser Family Foundation reports the following for Medicare beneficiaries in 2010: 25 percent had savings and retirement accounts averaging $207,000 or more; among homeowners (four-fifths of those 65 and older), three-quarters had equity in their houses averaging $132,000; about 25 percent had incomes exceeding $47,000 (that’s for individuals, and couples would be higher).

The essential budget question is how much we allow federal spending on the elderly to crowd out other national priorities. All else is subordinate. Yet, our “leaders” don’t debate this question with candor or intelligence. We have a generation of politicians cowed and controlled by AARP. We need to ask how much today’s programs constitute a genuine “safety net” to protect the vulnerable (which is good) and how much they simply subsidize retirees’ private pleasures.

Our politicians make perfunctory bows to entitlement reform and consider that they’ve discharged their duty, even if nothing changes. We need to recognize that federal retiree programs often represent middle-class welfare. Past taxes were never “saved” to pay future benefits. We need to ask the hard questions: Who deserves help and who doesn’t? Because Social Security and Medicare are so intertwined in our social fabric, changing them could never be easy. But the fact that we’ve evaded the choices for so long is why the present budget impasse has been so tortuous and why, if we continue our avoidance, there will be others.
 
#2
#2
I tell my conservative baby-boomer parents and my grandparents they are the problem all the time. They don't really argue, but rather talk about how "unfair" it is because they "paid in." I remind them that they were just paying for the then-current retirees, not their future retirement.
 
#3
#3
The math doesn't care if you're conservative or liberal. Structural changes will have to be made for medicare and SS to survive. The choices are raise age of qualification, raise tax rate either through increasing the amount taxed in SS' case or the tax rate and means testing.

Medicaid is another can of worms that will ultimately dwarf SS.
 
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#4
#4
They are not the problem.

The problem is the money that was taken to fund SS was allowed to be used to hand out to people who never even paid into the system.

The deserve their money. It's borderline criminal.

if it was a bank it would be considered a ponzi scheme.
 
#5
#5
They are not the problem.

The problem is the money that was taken to fund SS was allowed to be used to hand out to people who never even paid into the system.

The deserve their money. It's borderline criminal.

if it was a bank it would be considered a ponzi scheme.

So old people deserve that money because they're old? You know who else thinks they deserve money? Welfare recipients.

Like it was said earlier, they paid into the system for the older folks of the generation before. It's either going to have to change or end, because it's a huge mess. It's not unfair, it's the way it is.
 
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So old people deserve that money because they're old? You know who else thinks they deserve money? Welfare recipients.

Like it was said earlier, they paid into the system for the older folks of the generation before. It's either going to have to change or end, because it's a huge mess. It's not unfair, it's the way it is.


Coming from the kid in college who hasn't paid a real dime of his money into the ss fund.

You also compared welfare to hard working people who paid into ss for decades and expected their money to be there? Wow.
 
#10
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Coming from the kid in college who hasn't paid a real dime of his money into the ss fund.

You also compared welfare to hard working people who paid into ss for decades and expected their money to be there? Wow.

You're assuming I've never held a job?

You're missing the fact that people ended up paying into the system for the current recipients at the time. It's what we're doing now. If you've failed to realize the system is broken well before now I feel absolutely no sympathy.

So yes, all of the baby boomers screaming about how they want their government money are part of the problem.
 
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Fair, unfair, liberal or conservative are irrelevant to the problem. The math is not going to work.

Every year those of us who pay SS and medicare receive a statement showing all our wages by year that have been used for computing withholding. In fit of masochism, I started computing how much I have paid into the system since 1968. By virtue of the fact that I am self employed, I pay both the employer and employees portion of SS (12.4%) up to the maximum and 2.90% of all self employment income. Since there's no limit on income that Medicare is applied to it's more like addition income tax. I then apply a conservative compounding factor (6%) which is less than most pension plans assume. I get a big number! I'm more than willing to tell Uncle Sam I will forfeit half of that number to him, relinquish all claims to future benefits if I could just have half of it back today and let me bury it the back yard where it will be safer.
 
#12
#12
You're assuming I've never held a job?

You're missing the fact that people ended up paying into the system for the current recipients at the time. It's what we're doing now. If you've failed to realize the system is broken well before now I feel absolutely no sympathy.

So yes, all of the baby boomers screaming about how they want their government money are part of the problem.

I said "a real dime" meaning not much or for a long period of time.

Yes SS is broken. You might want to research why it is broken though. The money was used for the general fund and has basically been stolen. The money was not held like it was suppose to be.

Know the facts.
 
#13
#13
Soylent Green time; I'm getting the first Suicide Center franchise

I made the suggestion in a gibbs thread that we should become a society modeled after both Logan's Run and Soylent Green. Solves two problems at once, I think it's pure, GSM behind the woodshed genius.
 

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