Japan with nukes?

#1
Rasputin_Vol

Rasputin_Vol

"Slava Ukraina"
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#1
How do yo guys feel about this?

https://archive.ph/7VNkI

Q: South Korea has signaled willingness to deploy U.S. tactical nuclear weapons, while Japan has not wavered from its nonnuclear principles. What do you think concerning the possibility of deploying tactical nuclear weapons in Japan?

A: The threat environment and the aggressive modernization and deployment decisions on the part of North Korea and China are driving us to where we need to discuss these things. I think, in the context of an alliance, these things should be on the agenda.

In a military sense, there's not a lot of advantage with tactical weapons deployed on the territories of South Korea and Japan, range-wise and capability-wise.

I would just say it's the North Koreans and the Chinese that are driving this discussion. [Their increasing arsenals are] a problem, and it should really compel us to discuss the full range of options, including deploying tactical weapons. But I don't think we're at the point where we should be making that decision, yet.
 
#2
#2
Rasputin_Vol said:
How do yo guys feel about this?

https://archive.ph/7VNkI

Q: South Korea has signaled willingness to deploy U.S. tactical nuclear weapons, while Japan has not wavered from its nonnuclear principles. What do you think concerning the possibility of deploying tactical nuclear weapons in Japan?

A: The threat environment and the aggressive modernization and deployment decisions on the part of North Korea and China are driving us to where we need to discuss these things. I think, in the context of an alliance, these things should be on the agenda.

In a military sense, there's not a lot of advantage with tactical weapons deployed on the territories of South Korea and Japan, range-wise and capability-wise.

I would just say it's the North Koreans and the Chinese that are driving this discussion. [Their increasing arsenals are] a problem, and it should really compel us to discuss the full range of options, including deploying tactical weapons. But I don't think we're at the point where we should be making that decision, yet.
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I'd bet there are some already there.
 
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#8
#8
InVOLuntary said:
Not really. If we do, the Chinese does which means North Korea does. Them knowing is all that matters.
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Let me ask again. Do you think Japan has an obligation to know if there are nukes on their soil? I'm not talking about on submarines because that technically gives Japan cover/plausible deniability. And I also remember you saying that land based nukes are not necessary... but...

If there are nukes on their soil, shouldn't they be made aware of this or asked for permission to have them on their soil? Having them on their soil would then remove their cover and they become combatants.
 
#9
#9
Rasputin_Vol said:
Let me ask again. Do you think Japan has an obligation to know if there are nukes on their soil? I'm not talking about on submarines because that technically gives Japan cover/plausible deniability. And I also remember you saying that land based nukes are not necessary... but...

If there are nukes on their soil, shouldn't they be made aware of this or asked for permission to have them on their soil? Having them on their soil would then remove their cover and they become combatants.
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Just speculation that there are nukes on their soil at the behest of the Japanese government.
 
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#10
#10
Rasputin_Vol said:
Let me ask again. Do you think Japan has an obligation to know if there are nukes on their soil? I'm not talking about on submarines because that technically gives Japan cover/plausible deniability. And I also remember you saying that land based nukes are not necessary... but...

If there are nukes on their soil, shouldn't they be made aware of this or asked for permission to have them on their soil? Having them on their soil would then remove their cover and they become combatants.
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When stationed on Okinawa from 1968 to 1970, I drove many times through the Chibana Ammunition Depot to reach a Hawk site. It's miles of ammunition bunkers and often stuff stored like this

1024px-18-60-2_Artillery_rounds_Chibana_Ammunition_Depot_February_1969.jpg

Generally stuff along the roads was fully boxed, but it was like driving through what seemed like a miles long ally lined by munitions rather than buildings. Of course, this was likely overflow and transshipment materials for Vietnam, but I always assumed that there were nuclear warheads of one sort or another in some really secure bunkers. This was in the days when Okinawa was still under US control and the Cold War was still a hot thing. I wouldn't be surprised if there are nuclear weapons there - Chibana is adjacent to Kadena AFB. If there are, it's almost certain that their presence was part of the agreements in place when Okinawa was returned to Japan a few years later and the current Japanese government is fully aware.
 
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#11
#11
AM64 said:
When stationed on Okinawa from 1968 to 1970, I drove many times through the Chibana Ammunition Depot to reach a Hawk site. It's miles of ammunition bunkers and often stuff stored like this

View attachment 534470

Generally stuff along the roads was fully boxed, but it was like driving through what seemed like a miles long ally lined by munitions rather than buildings. Of course, this was likely overflow and transshipment materials for Vietnam, but I always assumed that there were nuclear warheads of one sort or another in some really secure bunkers. This was in the days when Okinawa was still under US control and the Cold War was still a hot thing. I wouldn't be surprised if there are nuclear weapons there - Chibana is adjacent to Kadena AFB. If there are, it's almost certain that their presence was part of the agreements in place when Okinawa was returned to Japan a few years later and the current Japanese government is fully aware.
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So now, maybe the Japanese govt may be aware of this.

Do the people of Japan know this?

Or, does that even matter, in your opinion?
 
#12
#12
Rasputin_Vol said:
So now, maybe the Japanese govt may be aware of this.

Do the people of Japan know this?

Or, does that even matter, in your opinion?
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Maybe it all falls under the category of don't be obsessed with what you can't control. Japan has nuclear power plants - I've worked in a few, and they have been very well maintained and operated. However, under the right set of circumstances, we've seen how that goes; I think the Japanese people are safer with nuclear warheads on their soil. Some people on Okinawa want the US gone because they think we make them a target for China. I'd assume the next phase would be they want the Japanese military gone because they make them a target for China. The third phase might be why would you leave us defenseless and let China take over? The loudest voices in protest rarely reflect the majority of a people.
 
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#13
#13
AM64 said:
Maybe it all falls under the category of don't be obsessed with what you can't control. Japan has nuclear power plants - I've worked in a few, and they have been very well maintained and operated. However, under the right set of circumstances, we've seen how that goes; I think the Japanese people are safer with nuclear warheads on their soil. Some people on Okinawa want the US gone because they think we make them a target for China. I'd assume the next phase would be they want the Japanese military gone because they make them a target for China. The third phase might be why would you leave us defenseless and let China take over? The loudest voices in protest rarely reflect the majority of a people.
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I am shocked. I just don't understand why they would think that.
 
#14
#14
AM64 said:
The loudest voices in protest rarely reflect the majority of a people.
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That sometimes applies. But I wonder if the people of Japan know that the "official" stance of Japan having nukes is far different than the "actual" stance... assuming what you guys are saying is true?

I swear, you guys use more weasel words and slick legalese than thee liberals when it is convenient...
 
#15
#15
AM64 said:
Maybe it all falls under the category of don't be obsessed with what you can't control. Japan has nuclear power plants - I've worked in a few, and they have been very well maintained and operated. However, under the right set of circumstances, we've seen how that goes; I think the Japanese people are safer with nuclear warheads on their soil. Some people on Okinawa want the US gone because they think we make them a target for China. I'd assume the next phase would be they want the Japanese military gone because they make them a target for China. The third phase might be why would you leave us defenseless and let China take over? The loudest voices in protest rarely reflect the majority of a people.
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It's not just some people in Okinawa. It's many across mainland Japan. If an actual Nationalist party came to power there would likely be a big push to get U.S. forces to leave.
 
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#16
#16
AM64 said:
Maybe it all falls under the category of don't be obsessed with what you can't control. Japan has nuclear power plants - I've worked in a few, and they have been very well maintained and operated. However, under the right set of circumstances, we've seen how that goes; I think the Japanese people are safer with nuclear warheads on their soil. Some people on Okinawa want the US gone because they think we make them a target for China. I'd assume the next phase would be they want the Japanese military gone because they make them a target for China. The third phase might be why would you leave us defenseless and let China take over? The loudest voices in protest rarely reflect the majority of a people.
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#17
#17
What you need to remember, as someone who has been in Okinawa, the reason the people there want us out doesn't have much to do with military things. A lot of young Marines and airforce guys, and even my own seabees, take a few too many liberties with not just the women, but private property as well.
There is a little of the get out because they can now have an actual military. The majority is the number of rapes and fights from servicemen though. And yes, it happens a hell of a lot more than you will see on the news
 
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#23
#23

There's more to that story though ... there always is. The Marines have an airbase on some pretty prime land at Futenma. This would as I understand close that base and build a runway adjacent to an existing Marine base. The new runway would be on reclaimed land. That's not exactly constructing a new base. There's been an ebb and flow - like a large area of base housing near Futenma is gone and a new Navy Hospital was built nearby ... on land already under US control. The US has turned over a number of facilities since I was there. The last time I was back (1978 while working in Japan) all the Hawk and Nike missile sites looked to be under Japanese military control, and the Air Force facilities at the Naha airport were Japanese military and Okinawan civil aviation. My flight in and out was Tokyo to Naha. The beach area where I took the missile picture on the left was a Japanese WW2 airfield; that's been returned to Okinawa developed into a resort area.
 
#24
#24
AM64 said:
There's more to that story though ... there always is. The Marines have an airbase on some pretty prime land at Futenma. This would as I understand close that base and build a runway adjacent to an existing Marine base. The new runway would be on reclaimed land. That's not exactly constructing a new base. There's been an ebb and flow - like a large area of base housing near Futenma is gone and a new Navy Hospital was built nearby ... on land already under US control. The US has turned over a number of facilities since I was there. The last time I was back (1978 while working in Japan) all the Hawk and Nike missile sites looked to be under Japanese military control, and the Air Force facilities at the Naha airport were Japanese military and Okinawan civil aviation. My flight in and out was Tokyo to Naha. The beach area where I took the missile picture on the left was a Japanese WW2 airfield; that's been returned to Okinawa developed into a resort area.
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And that misses the entire point. Why do we still have ANY presence over there?
 
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