Josh Selby

[Shaun1985]

was watching the memphis / cleveland game and seen him. I knew he got drafted but i thought he was playing in the d league. Anyways, it made me think how close we had to having him so i looked him up and forgot how highly ranked he was. Which also reminded me how he was pretty much a bust (as far as how highly ranked he was, regardless of the injury.

Sort of seems like ole bruce just had terrible luck with these highly ranked kids. Imagine if he would of stuck with tennessee then wow.....i'd be mad because college ball seemed like the last thing on that kids mind. Do you think Pearl (minus tobias) just had bad luck with these kinds of kids or was he a bad judgement of talent? I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here or turn this into an argument....was curious what you guys thought.

Also, why does coaches like roy williams or calipari seem to luck up and these kids be just as good as advertized? I'd love to see them hit a dry spell with some of these 5 star kids
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[give_him 6]

For Selby to consider the Vols was something. I remember back when Vols men's basketball was a joke. To have or had a coach that could recruit against Kansas, UNC, UK was something else.

I live in an area that follows KU. Selby really underperformed as a jay hawk but had he stayed would have been another great one from KU.

 

[BigHodgie]

it seems Pearl could spot talent ahead of many big programs when you consider we pursued and got commitments (if you can call it that) from Selby and Craft that same year before they blew up. play with the big dogs you're gonna get bit sometimes

 

[tnvols72]

it seems Pearl could spot talent ahead of many big programs when you consider we pursued and got commitments (if you can call it that) from Selby and Craft that same year before they blew up. play with the big dogs you're gonna get bit sometimes

I think Craft was always a Suckeye.I think Matta seen a chance to take advantage of Craft and go after BP.

 

[cncchris33]

I think Craft was always a Suckeye.I think Matta seen a chance to take advantage of Craft and go after BP.

Craft was always a OSU fan, but never had an offer. Once he got the offer, he was very honest and upfront with Pearl. It was after the fact that the picture turned up in Matta's hands.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Unc and uk miss on some 5* too, but when you have 5 or 6 on your team it's not as noticeable when you miss on 1 or 2.

In Bruce's case, when you only have 1 or 2 on your team and they're in the spotlight it's very easy to notice when they underachieve.

I will add, and please don't let this start an argument, I don't feel Bruce was the best at developing talent. He was good at spotting talent, and a great recruiter, but when you look at some of the guys that were highly rated he brought in they just never improved. The list is scary. With all the highly rated guys he brought in you'd think he'd have put more than 1 in the NBA.

JMO.

 

[DeepSpringsVol]

Unc and uk miss on some 5* too, but when you have 5 or 6 on your team it's not as noticeable when you miss on 1 or 2.

My thoughts exactly. Coaches can hide the bust when they don't have to get off the bench because one or two elite players are playing on same team.

 

[johnnybravo]

Unc and uk miss on some 5* too, but when you have 5 or 6 on your team it's not as noticeable when you miss on 1 or 2.

In Bruce's case, when you only have 1 or 2 on your team and they're in the spotlight it's very easy to notice when they underachieve.

I will add, and please don't let this start an argument, I don't feel Bruce was the best at developing talent. He was good at spotting talent, and a great recruiter, but when you look at some of the guys that were highly rated he brought in they just never improved. The list is scary. With all the highly rated guys he brought in you'd think he'd have put more than 1 in the NBA.

JMO.

I sometimes wonder if some of the players that were under Pearl had another color jersey on, when the graduated, if they would have made the league. There are a few that played under Pearl that I think can play in the NBA.

 

[volbeast33]

I sometimes wonder if some of the players that were under Pearl had another color jersey on, when the graduated, if they would have made the league. There are a few that played under Pearl that I think can play in the NBA.

Who were the ones that had NBA type ability besides Harris and maybe Hopson?

 

[omghulkhands]

I sometimes wonder if some of the players that were under Pearl had another color jersey on, when the graduated, if they would have made the league. There are a few that played under Pearl that I think can play in the NBA.

IMO A coach has little to do with the development of a player. Players get to the next level working on their own in the gym at 6 AM shooting baskets, doing drills with trainers and getting more on court experience regardless if its a RTL game or NCAA tourney game.

I believe sometimes coaches can have a big impact on a player, but it generally has less to do with basketball and more to do with getting their life together so they can put themselves in a position to succeed

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I sometimes wonder if some of the players that were under Pearl had another color jersey on, when the graduated, if they would have made the league. There are a few that played under Pearl that I think can play in the NBA.

I can see that but prince, smith, smith, lofton, maze, and chism(maybe more) all got NBA workouts iirc. It was up to those guys to do something in those workouts and none of them performed or measured out well enough to get the chance.

I get what you're saying though and it works both ways. Good example, players under calipari are now automatically given a higher rating basically. I mean seriously, Daniel orton?

 

[zansdad]

I can see that but prince, smith, smith, lofton, maze, and chism(maybe more) all got NBA workouts iirc. It was up to those guys to do something in those workouts and none of them performed or measured out well enough to get the chance.

I get what you're saying though and it works both ways. Good example, players under calipari are now automatically given a higher rating basically. I mean seriously, Daniel orton?

Orton's size and athleticism would have gotten him a shot in the league with or without Calipari. He was a 5* coming out of high school and without the 1 and done requirement may have never played in college. Size is always at a premium. Where Calipari's influence is most visible is with Liggins and Harrelson. The is no universe where a person can argue that Harrelson is a better player than Wayne Chism and yet Harrelson is playing and Chism is not.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

IMO A coach has little to do with the development of a player. Players get to the next level working on their own in the gym at 6 AM shooting baskets, doing drills with trainers and getting more on court experience regardless if its a RTL game or NCAA tourney game.

I believe sometimes coaches can have a big impact on a player, but it generally has less to do with basketball and more to do with getting their life together so they can put themselves in a position to succeed

I agree to an extent, however many things a coach can contribute to can play into a player being developed enough to be drafted.

Caliparis system is perfect for guys to play fast, show their athleticism, play to their strengths, and be succesful. It helps playing for a coach thats system showcases your ability and allows you to really play your strengths.

If you play for a coach who doesn't play you, or when you do play restricts you, he is hampering your development on the court. Also, playing for a succesful team absolutely helps you get noticed and drafted IMO. The coach has a big hand in a college player getting into the NBA IMO. True a player can develop on his own, but the coach still plays a major role IMO.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Orton's size and athleticism would have gotten him a shot in the league with or without Calipari. He was a 5* coming out of high school and without the 1 and done requirement may have never played in college. Size is always at a premium. Where Calipari's influence is most visible is with Liggins and Harrelson. The is no universe where a person can argue that Harrelson is a better player than Wayne Chism and yet Harrelson is playing and Chism is not.

Orton is 6'10 250, not exactly a freak of nature. I disagree that if he rode the pine for Tennessee for a year that he'd have been drafted as a lottery pick.

Very true about Harrelson chism comparison, but look at what you said above, size. Harrelson is 6'10 275 and chism measure out at 6'8" 240lbs. That's a big size difference, if chism was 6'10 275 he'd be in the league. That was te big knock on him coming out of college was he was undersized for the league.

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

it seems Pearl could spot talent ahead of many big programs when you consider we pursued and got commitments (if you can call it that) from Selby and Craft that same year before they blew up. play with the big dogs you're gonna get bit sometimes

Shelby went to Dematha, he wasnt some unknown. He was on coaches radar since his freshman year

 

[keckjm]

IMO A coach has little to do with the development of a player. Players get to the next level working on their own in the gym at 6 AM shooting baskets, doing drills with trainers and getting more on court experience regardless if its a RTL game or NCAA tourney game.

I believe sometimes coaches can have a big impact on a player, but it generally has less to do with basketball and more to do with getting their life together so they can put themselves in a position to succeed


I agree with this; however, coaches do have an effect on players in many ways still. Maymon and Golden are night and day since Martin has arrived here. Now, clearly Martin doesn't have some magic power, but he has found ways to get the best out of those two guys. I think Tom Izzo is notorious for this. Yea, he has some great players come in, but he also has a system where a 3/4 star player can turn out to be a great player AKA Draymond Green. I think it's all about stability and knowing what you want to do as a coach. If you're a coach that wants tons of shooters on the floor, then you might not want to go after 4, 5 star guys. This is why I say stars are overrated. Yes, they do judge talent pretty well, but they don't judge a players ability to fit within a given system. I'm not saying Martin should go after guys that have scholarship offers from Carson Newman, but I have no problem with him getting guys like Moore, as long as he can consistently prove he knows what he's doing on player evaluations. At this moment everyone has to trust Martin with his evaluations.

 

[volbeast33]

Orton's size and athleticism would have gotten him a shot in the league with or without Calipari. He was a 5* coming out of high school and without the 1 and done requirement may have never played in college. Size is always at a premium. Where Calipari's influence is most visible is with Liggins and Harrelson. The is no universe where a person can argue that Harrelson is a better player than Wayne Chism and yet Harrelson is playing and Chism is not.

It is all about measurables in the NBA, both Liggins and Harrelson have an NBA body....Liggins was viewed as a defensive stopper that can hit an open three, Harrelson gives a team a big bodied rebounder that can hit an open shot. Chism was listed as 6-8, 9 here at Tennessee and I think his official height was less than that which killed any shot at the NBA.

 

[volbeast33]

IMO A coach has little to do with the development of a player. Players get to the next level working on their own in the gym at 6 AM shooting baskets, doing drills with trainers and getting more on court experience regardless if its a RTL game or NCAA tourney game.

I believe sometimes coaches can have a big impact on a player, but it generally has less to do with basketball and more to do with getting their life together so they can put themselves in a position to succeed


I agree with this; however, coaches do have an effect on players in many ways still. Maymon and Golden are night and day since Martin has arrived here. Now, clearly Martin doesn't have some magic power, but he has found ways to get the best out of those two guys. I think Tom Izzo is notorious for this. Yea, he has some great players come in, but he also has a system where a 3/4 star player can turn out to be a great player AKA Draymond Green. I think it's all about stability and knowing what you want to do as a coach. If you're a coach that wants tons of shooters on the floor, then you might not want to go after 4, 5 star guys. This is why I say stars are overrated. Yes, they do judge talent pretty well, but they don't judge a players ability to fit within a given system. I'm not saying Martin should go after guys that have scholarship offers from Carson Newman, but I have no problem with him getting guys like Moore, as long as he can consistently prove he knows what he's doing on player evaluations. At this moment everyone has to trust Martin with his evaluations.

They have improved quite a bit but both showed potential the year before. The last coaching change we had several players improved alot from the yr before as well.

 

[volbeast33]

Orton is 6'10 250, not exactly a freak of nature. I disagree that if he rode the pine for Tennessee for a year that he'd have been drafted as a lottery pick.

Very true about Harrelson chism comparison, but look at what you said above, size. Harrelson is 6'10 275 and chism measure out at 6'8" 240lbs. That's a big size difference, if chism was 6'10 275 he'd be in the league. That was te big knock on him coming out of college was he was undersized for the league.

Orton was not drafted as a Lottery pick at Kentucky either. Having good measurables and alot of potential was helped by sitting behind the studs at kentucky. It would not have looked as good riding the pine behind Brian Williams. LOL

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Orton was not drafted as a Lottery pick at Kentucky either. Having good measurables and alot of potential was helped by sitting behind the studs at kentucky. It would not have looked as good riding the pine behind Brian Williams. LOL

My apologies first round.

He has been a bust in the NBA, he didn't show he deserved to be drafted at UK and he hasn't done anything to prove otherwise since.

As I said I think playing for cal and behind a good C boosted his draft stock. If he'd have averaged those numbers at any other school I doubt he'd have been a first rounder.

 

[omghulkhands]

It is all about measurables in the NBA, both Liggins and Harrelson have an NBA body....Liggins was viewed as a defensive stopper that can hit an open three, Harrelson gives a team a big bodied rebounder that can hit an open shot. Chism was listed as 6-8, 9 here at Tennessee and I think his official height was less than that which killed any shot at the NBA.

yeah I was just getting ready to post that if Chism is 6-8 then then the moon is made of cheese

 

[volbeast33]

My apologies first round.

He has been a bust in the NBA, he didn't show he deserved to be drafted at UK and he hasn't done anything to prove otherwise since.

As I said I think playing for cal and behind a good C boosted his draft stock. If he'd have averaged those numbers at any other school I doubt he'd have been a first rounder.

I don't think it had anything to do with cal but being behind a dominant center helped hide his deficiencies...Even in the lottery and definitely late first round to second the draft is based off potential. Orton was a big bodied highly rated center. Several players didn't do a lot in college that got drafted in the NBA based off potential.

 

[zansdad]

It is all about measurables in the NBA, both Liggins and Harrelson have an NBA body....Liggins was viewed as a defensive stopper that can hit an open three, Harrelson gives a team a big bodied rebounder that can hit an open shot. Chism was listed as 6-8, 9 here at Tennessee and I think his official height was less than that which killed any shot at the NBA.

Every school exaggerates their players measurables. Harrellson measured an inch taller than Chism. 6'8 1/2" to 6'7 1/2". Not exactly what I would call an NBA body or a difference maker between Jorts and Weezy. Chism actually had a longer wingspan and taller standing reach despite being an inch shorter

DraftExpressProfile: Josh Harrellson, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

DraftExpressProfile: Wayne Chism, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

 

[TVolRedsox]

For Selby to consider the Vols was something. I remember back when Vols men's basketball was a joke. To have or had a coach that could recruit against Kansas, UNC, UK was something else.

I live in an area that follows KU. Selby really underperformed as a jay hawk but had he stayed would have been another great one from KU.

Sorry to say this being a UNC student you have NEVER recruited against Kansas, UNC, and UK. Bruce had to cheat to try and get Aaron craft, and Josh Selby and guess what STILL couldn't land them. Hand Selby a stack of cash and he still went else where. Yes Tennessee basketball became relevant, but no they did not go into relevant recruiting wars with UNC ever, Kentucky ever, Kansas well bill self is a douche so possibly them!

 

[TVolRedsox]

My thoughts exactly. Coaches can hide the bust when they don't have to get off the bench because one or two elite players are playing on same team.

Ya the 5 * UNC and UK miss don't matter, they have someone who.can develop. Let's see how much stokes progresses next year, needs to improve monumentally to live up to that 5* ranking, ya Harrison Barnes sorry we did happen to get one that happened to be all about me.....