Lady Vols Soccer ⚽️ SEC TOURNAMENT 11/3-11/10

[turbovol]

Here's why this is a risky move for Pensky or anybody that would follow Krikorian. FSU over the last several years has been better than UNC (21 or so national titles), UVA and Duke--three of the best programs in the country, and all in the same conference. While competing against Vandy, Arkansas and South Carolina is not easy, UVA, Duke and UNC are at a higher level and so it wouldn't take much slippage by FSU to suddenly find itself losing matches to its rivals--and that's not going to go down well with the spoiled FSU fan base.

 

[MAD]

Maybe a bit harsh but I agree.

 

[MAD]

I wonder if Tennessee even had a chance to counteroffer or anything?

 

[kregman]

I wonder if Tennessee even had a chance to counteroffer or anything?

Doesn’t sound or feel like it does it?

 

[turbovol]

I wonder if Tennessee even had a chance to counteroffer or anything?

That's a good question. My guess is that given the status of the FSU program and the big jump in pay he's getting, he did not ask for a counter-offer. And why would he expect one? He just got an extension--and presumably a raise--but I strongly suspect that whatever raise he received was rather modest. My bet is that he was not making even $300K annually and probably closer to $250K--maybe a bit more than that if you throw in the soccer camps, but I don't think they generate much money at all.

In contrast, Vitello, our baseball coach, was making $600K annually even when he'd accomplished nothing--nearly 3 times what Pensky and Swimming coach Matt Kredich were getting--and then, simply for getting us to the final 8 last year, got an extension and raise so that now he's making $1.5 MILLION annually. And while baseball pulls in more money from fans than soccer, it's still a nominal amount of money and baseball remains a non-revenue sport, essentially. I'm happy for Vitello, don't get me wrong, and pleased to see our baseball program doing so well. Even so, why would we--or any school--pay one successful non-revenue coach so much more than other successful non-revenue coaches? I think it's unfair--and if you do it you surely run the risk losing your best coaches. Some athletic directors are focused only on revenues and don't seem to care that much about non-revenue sports because they don't generate big money--see FSU. Even UCLA, which has a much more prominent soccer tradition than we do, apparently refuses to pay a salary high enough to attract the best soccer coaching candidates. But who likes having bad or mediocre programs, in any sport? And beyond that, winning programs generate a lot of positive PR for a university, whether or not they are a "revenue" sport.

 

[turbovol]

Maybe a bit harsh but I agree.

View attachment 450340

It's of course wrong to say that he was "easily" lured away. FSU is the best program in the country and Pensky doubled his salary. Those are very big and enticing lures.

 

[MAD]

It's of course wrong to say that he was "easily" lured away. FSU is the best program in the country and Pensky doubled his salary. Those are very big and enticing lures.

You are right, can’t blame him for making the jump. It’s a great honor and a very prestigious position. I’m just still sad about it.

 

[MAD]

 

[turbovol]

You are right, can’t blame him for making the jump. It’s a great honor and a very prestigious position. I’m just still sad about it.

I'm completely bummed about it, too. I've been following the program closely since Pensky arrived--partly because it was apparent that he was a good recruiter and so I thought he had a good chance to build a good program. He did--but it took years. Angela Kelly left the talent cupboard bare, and it was five years before Pensky and the program started gaining any real momentum. So to lose our coach three months before we could roll out what might be our best team ever...is awful. And if some of our kids decide to follow Pensky, or just transfer, it will be like starting over--and that will truly sux. I would hope that most stay and play this season for all it could be worth.

Pensky and associate coach Jon Morgan are tight, I think--as they were together at Maryland, where Morgan followed Pensky as head coach. Pensky might have put in a recommendation for Morgan to get the job before leaving--though I doubt White was in a particular receptive mood for next-coach advise. Hiring Morgan might keep our talent in the fold in the short-term--and he seems a very good guy---but he wasn't very successful at Maryland and so I'm not sure if he'd be the right hire. While Pensky is competitive and ambitious, Morgan seems quite a bit more laid-back--that's my sense from afar. If he's not offered the job, I could definitely see him joining Pensky at FSU, as the two are a good recruiting combo, I think.

Because it's late to be finding a new coach, if I'm White I might offer Morgan the job on an interim basis with the understanding that he'll be evaluated on how the team performs this season. If the team excels, they you offer him the permanent job next year. Meanwhile, you put out feelers to other established coaches. The risk of offering Morgan the interim position is that, with all our returning talent, we might very well have a good season--but that doesn't necessarily presage Morgan continuing to recruit as well as Pensky has and continuing to build the program. Lots of coaches, in college and the pros, do well for a year or two after inheriting talented teams--but they can't maintain it, can't recruit/coach as well as the previous coach, and things start to deteriorate. So maybe the interim idea is not so good after all. It's tough. Chris Henderson, a serious women's soccer analyst, just described the Tennessee job as "plum," because of our excellent facilities and talent level--but it takes an excellent coach to keep the position and the program "plum." I think if White were to raise the salary to at least $300K, if not a bit more, hhe could make a strong hire. The Xavier coach is good, as is the Georgetown coach. There are a number of established winners around the country who should be interested.

Somebody on the other board suggested offering the job to Krikorian. Absolutely! But White would have to be prepared to offer him $500K. I doubt White will want to do that--even though landing Krikorian would be a coup and an absolute bargain at that salary. I also can't see Krikorian taking the UT job under any circumstance--but why not give it a go? See if you can get him on campus--our facilities are as good as if not better than FSU's. I think he's thinking pro job now--but you never know. I'm all for being bold.

Who wouldn't have described our women's basketball job as "plum" when Summitt retired. It was uber-plum--but then we screwed it up by hiring the wrong person to succeed Summitt--and six/seven years later it was very plum at all, even with our tradition.

 

[MAD]

I'm completely bummed about it, too. I've been following the program closely since Pensky arrived--partly because it was apparent that he was a good recruiter and so I thought he had a good chance to build a good program. He did--but it took years. Angela Kelly left the talent cupboard bare, and it was five years before Pensky and the program started gaining any real momentum. So to lose our coach three months before we could roll out what might be our best team ever...is awful. And if some of our kids decide to follow Pensky, or just transfer, it will be like starting over--and that will truly sux. I would hope that most stay and play this season for all it could be worth.

Pensky and associate coach Jon Morgan are tight, I think--as they were together at Maryland, where Morgan followed Pensky as head coach. Pensky might have put in a recommendation for Morgan to get the job before leaving--though I doubt White was in a particular receptive mood for next-coach advise. Hiring Morgan might keep our talent in the fold in the short-term--and he seems a very good guy---but he wasn't very successful at Maryland and so I'm not sure if he'd be the right hire. While Pensky is competitive and ambitious, Morgan seems quite a bit more laid-back--that's my sense from afar. If he's not offered the job, I could definitely see him joining Pensky at FSU, as the two are a good recruiting combo, I think.

Because it's late to be finding a new coach, if I'm White I might offer Morgan the job on an interim basis with the understanding that he'll be evaluated on how the team performs this season. If the team excels, they you offer him the permanent job next year. Meanwhile, you put out feelers to other established coaches. The risk of offering Morgan the interim position is that, with all our returning talent, we might very well have a good season--but that doesn't necessarily presage Morgan continuing to recruit as well as Pensky has and continuing to build the program. Lots of coaches, in college and the pros, do well for a year or two after inheriting talented teams--but they can't maintain it, can't recruit/coach as well as the previous coach, and things start to deteriorate. So maybe the interim idea is not so good after all. It's tough. Chris Henderson, a serious women's soccer analyst, just described the Tennessee job as "plum," because of our excellent facilities and talent level--but it takes an excellent coach to keep the position and the program "plum." I think if White were to raise the salary to at least $300K, if not a bit more, hhe could make a strong hire. The Xavier coach is good, as is the Georgetown coach. There are a number of established winners around the country who should be interested.

Somebody on the other board suggested offering the job to Krikorian. Absolutely! But White would have to be prepared to offer him $500K. I doubt White will want to do that--even though landing Krikorian would be a coup and an absolute bargain at that salary. I also can't see Krikorian taking the UT job under any circumstance--but why not give it a go? See if you can get him on campus--our facilities are as good as if not better than FSU's. I think he's thinking pro job now--but you never know. I'm all for being bold.

Who wouldn't have described our women's basketball job as "plum" when Summitt retired. It was uber-plum--but then we screwed it up by hiring the wrong person to succeed Summitt--and six/seven years later it was very plum at all, even with our tradition.

Morgan and Kirt were both elevated to associate head coaches just two weeks ago, wonder if that means anything. Also last week the director of operations put in her two weeks notice.

 

[Memvol44]

I'm completely bummed about it, too. I've been following the program closely since Pensky arrived--partly because it was apparent that he was a good recruiter and so I thought he had a good chance to build a good program. He did--but it took years. Angela Kelly left the talent cupboard bare, and it was five years before Pensky and the program started gaining any real momentum. So to lose our coach three months before we could roll out what might be our best team ever...is awful. And if some of our kids decide to follow Pensky, or just transfer, it will be like starting over--and that will truly sux. I would hope that most stay and play this season for all it could be worth.

Pensky and associate coach Jon Morgan are tight, I think--as they were together at Maryland, where Morgan followed Pensky as head coach. Pensky might have put in a recommendation for Morgan to get the job before leaving--though I doubt White was in a particular receptive mood for next-coach advise. Hiring Morgan might keep our talent in the fold in the short-term--and he seems a very good guy---but he wasn't very successful at Maryland and so I'm not sure if he'd be the right hire. While Pensky is competitive and ambitious, Morgan seems quite a bit more laid-back--that's my sense from afar. If he's not offered the job, I could definitely see him joining Pensky at FSU, as the two are a good recruiting combo, I think.

Because it's late to be finding a new coach, if I'm White I might offer Morgan the job on an interim basis with the understanding that he'll be evaluated on how the team performs this season. If the team excels, they you offer him the permanent job next year. Meanwhile, you put out feelers to other established coaches. The risk of offering Morgan the interim position is that, with all our returning talent, we might very well have a good season--but that doesn't necessarily presage Morgan continuing to recruit as well as Pensky has and continuing to build the program. Lots of coaches, in college and the pros, do well for a year or two after inheriting talented teams--but they can't maintain it, can't recruit/coach as well as the previous coach, and things start to deteriorate. So maybe the interim idea is not so good after all. It's tough. Chris Henderson, a serious women's soccer analyst, just described the Tennessee job as "plum," because of our excellent facilities and talent level--but it takes an excellent coach to keep the position and the program "plum." I think if White were to raise the salary to at least $300K, if not a bit more, hhe could make a strong hire. The Xavier coach is good, as is the Georgetown coach. There are a number of established winners around the country who should be interested.

Somebody on the other board suggested offering the job to Krikorian. Absolutely! But White would have to be prepared to offer him $500K. I doubt White will want to do that--even though landing Krikorian would be a coup and an absolute bargain at that salary. I also can't see Krikorian taking the UT job under any circumstance--but why not give it a go? See if you can get him on campus--our facilities are as good as if not better than FSU's. I think he's thinking pro job now--but you never know. I'm all for being bold.

Who wouldn't have described our women's basketball job as "plum" when Summitt retired. It was uber-plum--but then we screwed it up by hiring the wrong person to succeed Summitt--and six/seven years later it was very plum at all, even with our tradition.

I wonder if our raise and extension was an insult to Pensky. Coming off the tournament title he may have expected a bit more money...Just a thought..

 

[MAD]

I'm completely bummed about it, too. I've been following the program closely since Pensky arrived--partly because it was apparent that he was a good recruiter and so I thought he had a good chance to build a good program. He did--but it took years. Angela Kelly left the talent cupboard bare, and it was five years before Pensky and the program started gaining any real momentum. So to lose our coach three months before we could roll out what might be our best team ever...is awful. And if some of our kids decide to follow Pensky, or just transfer, it will be like starting over--and that will truly sux. I would hope that most stay and play this season for all it could be worth.

Pensky and associate coach Jon Morgan are tight, I think--as they were together at Maryland, where Morgan followed Pensky as head coach. Pensky might have put in a recommendation for Morgan to get the job before leaving--though I doubt White was in a particular receptive mood for next-coach advise. Hiring Morgan might keep our talent in the fold in the short-term--and he seems a very good guy---but he wasn't very successful at Maryland and so I'm not sure if he'd be the right hire. While Pensky is competitive and ambitious, Morgan seems quite a bit more laid-back--that's my sense from afar. If he's not offered the job, I could definitely see him joining Pensky at FSU, as the two are a good recruiting combo, I think.

Because it's late to be finding a new coach, if I'm White I might offer Morgan the job on an interim basis with the understanding that he'll be evaluated on how the team performs this season. If the team excels, they you offer him the permanent job next year. Meanwhile, you put out feelers to other established coaches. The risk of offering Morgan the interim position is that, with all our returning talent, we might very well have a good season--but that doesn't necessarily presage Morgan continuing to recruit as well as Pensky has and continuing to build the program. Lots of coaches, in college and the pros, do well for a year or two after inheriting talented teams--but they can't maintain it, can't recruit/coach as well as the previous coach, and things start to deteriorate. So maybe the interim idea is not so good after all. It's tough. Chris Henderson, a serious women's soccer analyst, just described the Tennessee job as "plum," because of our excellent facilities and talent level--but it takes an excellent coach to keep the position and the program "plum." I think if White were to raise the salary to at least $300K, if not a bit more, hhe could make a strong hire. The Xavier coach is good, as is the Georgetown coach. There are a number of established winners around the country who should be interested.

Somebody on the other board suggested offering the job to Krikorian. Absolutely! But White would have to be prepared to offer him $500K. I doubt White will want to do that--even though landing Krikorian would be a coup and an absolute bargain at that salary. I also can't see Krikorian taking the UT job under any circumstance--but why not give it a go? See if you can get him on campus--our facilities are as good as if not better than FSU's. I think he's thinking pro job now--but you never know. I'm all for being bold.

Who wouldn't have described our women's basketball job as "plum" when Summitt retired. It was uber-plum--but then we screwed it up by hiring the wrong person to succeed Summitt--and six/seven years later it was very plum at all, even with our tradition.

You mentioned that it’s late in finding a coach, that’s what is the most disappointing part of the timing in all of this and kind of reminds me of the way Kiffin left.

 

[turbovol]

You mentioned that it’s late in finding a coach, that’s what is the most disappointing part of the timing in all of this and kind of reminds me of the way Kiffin left.

You took the words out of my mouth when you mentioned Kiffin. I had the same thought. Kiffin was a bold hire--I loved it--and I'm convinced that, though he's got some flaws, he would have turned our football program into a powerhouse in a few short years. He put together a seriously good staff his first year. But then we got very unlucky when his dream job, USC, came open unexpectedly (he had coached there for years early in his career) and we ended up getting screwed with both the timing and fact of his sudden departure--not enough time to do a thorough coaching search. I lot of coaches spend 15/20 years or longer at the same school--but others change jobs pretty regularly, depending on their situations and opportunities. Until today I hadn't really thought about why we would give a new baseball coach $600K to start--then after one successful year more than double his salary--while well established and successful other non-rev coaches (swimming, men's tennis, soccer) get paid one-fifth as much. That's a problem.

 

[MAD]

 

[MAD]

 

[MAD]

 

[orange beard]

Maybe Penskys kid is going to FSU to play soccer for the men

 

[MAD]

Maybe Penskys kid is going to FSU to play soccer for the men

I had read he was going to Tufts in Boston, maybe that will change

 

[turbovol]

I had read he was going to Tufts in Boston, maybe that will change

Well, I know nothing about his son's playing skills--but Tufts is a Div. III school athletically, so if that is his (or anyone's level), he's not going to switch to Div. 1.

White, Kirk and Morgan need to make a major effort to keep our kids in the fold. We have a chance to be very good next year--and is someone playes make rash decisions to transfer they could screw up our team--and their careers. This is the immediate priority.

 

[BruisedOrange]

So much money is being spent on Tennessee athletics right now: renovating Neyland, major upgrade coming to Lindsey Nelson stadium, coaches' salaries... million$ in NIL MONEY!!!

The gov't is spending money it will never have, the middle class (once ticket buyers) have seen their paychecks and worth dwindle, inflation appears to be rising unabated, while a huge chunk of global wealth was transferred into the accounts of the top 5% during the COVID shutdown.

College enrollment is falling nationwide as the value of a higher education is more in doubt than ever, while college tuition has continued to rise faster than almost anything else. WHERE IS THE A.D.'s MONEY COMING FROM?

In this environment, it makes no sense for people, for institutions, to be spending more money.
But they are.

What do they foresee?

 

[Aladywhovolunteer]

Pensky 's base salary was raised from $185,000 to $250,000 in his last contract. According to an internet site comparing college soccer coaches... the top salaries ranged from $103,000 to $220,000. Not sure how accurate those are...
It's the internet. But based on that it would appear Pensky was fairly compensated. I truly believe AD White knows what top coaches make and Pensky was compensated accordingly. Baseball has become a nuclear war and AD White is trying to fix football which provides the money for all "non revenue" sports.

No disrespect to Pensky, I think he did a good job. However, it's taken 12 years to be relevant. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think he won the East Division his last two years and the Conference Tournament last year.

My problem with him was every big game, we seemed to have, when I listened or watched , our star player was always playing for their national team or our best player would be playing on our under 18 or under 20 team. I get it but it was difficult to understand.

 

[Memvol44]

Trying to steal and stealing ..two different things .

 

[MAD]

Trying to steal and stealing ..two different things .

Exactly, it kind of feels like there wasn’t much of an effort on UT’s part.

 

[Memvol44]

So much money is being spent on Tennessee athletics right now: renovating Neyland, major upgrade coming to Lindsey Nelson stadium, coaches' salaries... million$ in NIL MONEY!!!

The gov't is spending money it will never have, the middle class (once ticket buyers) have seen their paychecks and worth dwindle, inflation appears to be rising unabated, while a huge chunk of global wealth was transferred into the accounts of the top 5% during the COVID shutdown.

College enrollment is falling nationwide as the value of a higher education is more in doubt than ever, while college tuition has continued to rise faster than almost anything else. WHERE IS THE A.D.'s MONEY COMING FROM?

In this environment, it makes no sense for people, for institutions, to be spending more money.
But they are.

What do they foresee?

Conference and television contracts....shoe and uni. Deals..the money is there

 

[turbovol]

Pensky 's base salary was raised from $185,000 to $250,000 in his last contract. According to an internet site comparing college soccer coaches... the top salaries ranged from $103,000 to $220,000. Not sure how accurate those are...
It's the internet. But based on that it would appear Pensky was fairly compensated. I truly believe AD White knows what top coaches make and Pensky was compensated accordingly. Baseball has become a nuclear war and AD White is trying to fix football which provides the money for all "non revenue" sports.

No disrespect to Pensky, I think he did a good job. However, it's taken 12 years to be relevant. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think he won the East Division his last two years and the Conference Tournament last year.

My problem with him was every big game, we seemed to have, when I listened or watched , our star player was always playing for their national team or our best player would be playing on our under 18 or under 20 team. I get it but it was difficult to understand.

It's a big honor to be given a spot on one of our National Team rosters--and can be good publicity for your school. Even so, we haven't had many such cases at all. Bunny Shaw played on the Jamaican National Team and missed a couple of games as a result, but nothing major. Same with Katie Cousins and Erin Gilroy: They were both starters on the US U20 National team (different years). I can't remember how much time they missed--but don't recall it being a major factor. (Gilroy = great player whose career was ruined by a second ACL tear. Could not run as well after the second.)

I agree that it took Pensky quite a while to get the program where it is--10 years, not 12. We had almost zero quality talent when he arrived. Hannah Wilkinson was here and by far our best player--but she was coming off of knee surgery and not at her best. (I don't know what Angela Kelly was doing her last 4/5 years--but it wasn't recruiting.) I think he could have done some things differently, or better, in the first 5 years, but it's fair to say that the program got incrementally better almost every year. I had two complaints with Pensky: the first is that he didn't put enough emphasis on recruiting good defenders in the first few years--clearly did not sign enough good ones, especially players who could play centerback (key position); and second, we didn't play very good soccer for a number of years. Our possession play for a few years was pretty bad--but as our talent improved, so did our possession soccer, so that was a factor for a while. His first five years, we couldn't play with Florida and Texas A&M, but now we've beaten each of those teams maybe the last four/five times we've played.

Pensky's best quality is his recruiting, IMO. He's lately been the best recruiter in the SEC. Bunny Shaw originally committed to Florida--but had to go to Junior College and when she got out, she signed with the Vols. Major coup. She was one of the two best players in the country as a senior (the other being Macario of Stanford). Landed Katie Cousins--considered No. 1 prospect nationally when she signed. Even so, as recently as two years ago we had a couple of starting centerbacks who weren't that good--so a good recruiter, better than most, but took a while to focus on defenders.