Landiss second test for synthetic testosterone is postive

[WA_Vol]

Little doubt he was cheating. Considering he was a teammate of Armstrong last year.........well draw your own conclusions.

 

[tidwell]

Yeah, he's done.

 

[therealUT]

Little doubt he was cheating. Considering he was a teammate of Armstrong last year.........well draw your own conclusions.

So, now teammates are cheaters??? If anything, this should clear Lance's name. Lance, in every Tour de France, was subject to the same exact testing that Landis failed. If they were both cheating, don't you believe that Lance would have let Floyd in on some secrets to avoid getting caught???

 

[WA_Vol]

So, now teammates are cheaters??? If anything, this should clear Lance's name. Lance, in every Tour de France, was subject to the same exact testing that Landis failed. If they were both cheating, don't you believe that Lance would have let Floyd in on some secrets to avoid getting caught???

Rumors of Armstrong cheating have been circulating for years. The fact that one of his former teammates has his Tour De France Victory stripped from him because of a failed drug test is not going to reflect on Armstrong positively. Armstrong could have ended this controversy, by simply not having as his personal physician a doctor with a notorious reputation for doping. Obviously, Amstrong felt he needed the doctor. Why would he need a doctor with a reputation for doping?

 

[therealUT]

Rumors of Armstrong cheating have been circulating for years. The fact that one of his former teammates has his Tour De France Victory stripped from him because of a failed drug test is not going to reflect on Armstrong positively. Armstrong could have ended this controversy, by simply not having as his personal physician a doctor with a notorious reputation for doping. Obviously, Amstrong felt he needed the doctor. Why would he need a doctor with a reputation for doping?

I understand all the links that seemingly indict Armstrong. I do not have a problem with those. However, I am stating that this finding does more to vindicate Lance than to further indict him.

 

[WA_Vol]

I understand all the links that seemingly indict Armstrong. I do not have a problem with those. However, I am stating that this finding does more to vindicate Lance than to further indict him.

Thats your opinion, but I don't see a rationale explanation for it.

My argument was guilt by association. Why would someone not involved in doping have a doctor who has a reputation for doping and now a teammate who uses drugs to boost his performance? And yes, I think if Landis was doping while a teammate of Armstrong, that Armstrong as team leader, most likely knew about it.

 

[volinbham]

Thats your opinion, but I don't see a rationale explanation for it.

My argument was guilt by association. Why would someone not involved in doping have a doctor who has a reputation for doping and now a teammate who uses drugs to boost his performance? And yes, I think if Landis was doping while a teammate of Armstrong, that Armstrong as team leader, most likely knew about it.

I don't remember Landis testing positive last year (while a teamate). Must have missed that.

I guess every SF Giant is on roids as well.

 

[WA_Vol]

I don't remember Landis testing positive last year (while a teamate). Must have missed that.

I guess every SF Giant is on roids as well.

yes we should all ignore the fact that Armstrong's teammate was stripped of his tour de force victory for doping and his doctor is notorious for doping and give him the benefit of the doubt like everyone has Bonds.

 

[volinbham]

yes we should all ignore the fact that Armstrong's teammate was stripped of his tour de force victory for doping and his doctor is notorious for doping and give him the benefit of the doubt like everyone has Bonds.

The fact that they were teammates is irrelevant. Otherwise, the Bonds analogy would hold as well - all SF Giants are suspect.

Several riders were DQ'd prior to this year's Tour for doping. Are we to assume that all their teammates were doping too but just weren't caught?

You think he's guilty - fine but that doesn't validate your argument. RealUT's is just as valid. If LA is the master doper why wouldn't he show his teammate how to avoid detection?

 

[WA_Vol]

The fact that they were teammates is irrelevant. Otherwise, the Bonds analogy would hold as well - all SF Giants are suspect.

Several riders were DQ'd prior to this year's Tour for doping. Are we to assume that all their teammates were doping too but just weren't caught?

You think he's guilty - fine but that doesn't validate your argument. RealUT's is just as valid. If LA is the master doper why wouldn't he show his teammate how to avoid detection?

You still haven't answered the basic question and neither has UT. Why would someone who is clean, select a teammate who dopes, and select a doctor who has a reputation for doping??

 

[volinbham]

You still haven't answered the basic question and neither has UT. Why would someone who is clean, select a teammate who dopes, and select a doctor who has a reputation for doping??

There is no evidence that Landis doped prior to this specific event. He passed his tests in previous years and passed the tests leading into the tour. The test he failed indicates specific use of testosterone at a particular time. It also coincides with a particularly difficult point in the Tour.

In short, the assertion that LA "picked" a known doper is completely unfounded. If LA was hiding a doping habit it wouldn't make any sense for him to choose teammates that did it as well because it would increase the chances of getting caught.

As for the doctor, I have no idea why LA used him but it is irrelevant to connecting Landis and LA.

 

[volinbham]

You still haven't answered the basic question and neither has UT. Why would someone who is clean, select a teammate who dopes, and select a doctor who has a reputation for doping??

Further, this logic says that the SF Giant org and Dusty Baker were all in on it since the picked Bonds (a teammate who dopes).

 

[WA_Vol]

Further, this logic says that the SF Giant org and Dusty Baker were all in on it since the picked Bonds (a teammate who dopes).

If you dont think most of your SF Giant org and Dusty Baker believe BB is using steroids your kidding yourself. Obviously if they didn't want players who use steroids, they would trade him.

 

[WA_Vol]

There is no evidence that Landis doped prior to this specific event. He passed his tests in previous years and passed the tests leading into the tour. The test he failed indicates specific use of testosterone at a particular time. It also coincides with a particularly difficult point in the Tour.

In short, the assertion that LA "picked" a known doper is completely unfounded. If LA was hiding a doping habit it wouldn't make any sense for him to choose teammates that did it as well because it would increase the chances of getting caught.

As for the doctor, I have no idea why LA used him but it is irrelevant to connecting Landis and LA.

LA first and foremost picked teammates who he thought could help him win the Tour De France. Why would Armstrong care if he was a doper, since if its true he was as well??

LA could have put a lot of distance between him and the doping scandal by picking a doctor with a clean reputation. Instead he did the opposite. He picked a doctor who could help him dope and not get caught, why else would he have selected a doctor with a doping reputation??

The only mistake Landis made is he got caught.

 

[volinbham]

If you dont think most of your SF Giant org and Dusty Baker believe BB is using steroids your kidding yourself. Obviously if they didn't want players who use steroids, they would trade him.

Not sure why you refer to them as "your" SF Giants org. I'm not a fan.

Knowing and being part of it are different things. You suggest LA was doping because he chose a doper as a teammate.

This would be like saying the Giants and Baker were giving him the roids or somehow otherwise directly invovled. Also, if guilt by association is the rule then all Bonds teammates must be users.

For what it's worth, I did give Bonds the benefit of the doubt until he admitted to using. I just wish he'd fully admit it instead of claiming he thought it was flaxseed oil!

 

[volinbham]

LA first and foremost picked teammates who he thought could help him win the Tour De France. Why would Armstrong care if he was a doper, since if its true he was as well??

There is no evidence that Landis was a doper prior to this year's Tour and even if he was, there is no evidence that LA knew it and chose him anyway or because of it. Your dealing with a lot of if's and pure speculation.

For the last time - the doctor has nothing to do with your argument that Landis getting caught is evidence that Armstrong was doping. They are independent events. If Landis wasn't caught, it wouldn't change the fact that this guy was LA's doctor. It may convince you that LA was doping but it is not a supporting argument for your original claim.

 

[Jasongivm6]

The fact that they were teammates is irrelevant. Otherwise, the Bonds analogy would hold as well - all SF Giants are suspect.

Several riders were DQ'd prior to this year's Tour for doping. Are we to assume that all their teammates were doping too but just weren't caught?

You think he's guilty - fine but that doesn't validate your argument. RealUT's is just as valid. If LA is the master doper why wouldn't he show his teammate how to avoid detection?

Why wouldn't LA show his teammate how to avoid detection?

Hmmmmm, Let's see :question:

Could it be that he didn't want his teammates to know he was doping? Now, I don't know if LA was or wasn't. But it would be pretty stupid for a 6 or 7 time Tour winner to go up to anyone and say, "Do you want me to tell you how you can test negative, Floyd?"

 

[therealUT]

Why wouldn't LA show his teammate how to avoid detection?

Hmmmmm, Let's see :question:

Could it be that he didn't want his teammates to know he was doping? Now, I don't know if LA was or wasn't. But it would be pretty stupid for a 6 or 7 time Tour winner to go up to anyone and say, "Do you want me to tell you how you can test negative, Floyd?"

Either way, it negates Oklavol's presumption that Floyd's positive test for testosterone somehow indicts Lance.

 

[volinbham]

Why wouldn't LA show his teammate how to avoid detection?

Hmmmmm, Let's see :question:

Could it be that he didn't want his teammates to know he was doping? Now, I don't know if LA was or wasn't. But it would be pretty stupid for a 6 or 7 time Tour winner to go up to anyone and say, "Do you want me to tell you how you can test negative, Floyd?"

All I'm saying is that Landis being caught doesn't mean anything about LA. I agree, he would most likely keep it secret. However, in that case why would he knowingly choose a doping teammate as has been suggested? It just doesn't make sense.

Further, in cycling the teammates are there to protect the main guy (LA in this case). They don't have to be as competitive as a team leader. Landis didn't have to carry the team as a teammate. A smart team leader (especially one that was doping) wouldn't choose doping teammates since 1) they don't need it and 2) the chance they would get caught could put scrutiny on the whole team.

 

[WA_Vol]

The only reasonable explanation as to why Armstrong uses a doctor with a reputation for doping is that he is involved with doping. IMO having his teammate win the Tour De France the following year and fail a drug test reflects poorly on him as well. LA did select him as his teammate, and he became the team leader when Lance retired.

The majority of people who follow this sport believe most of the top cyclists are doping. The art seems to be not getting caught. I don't understand why the majority of the people in this thread want to pretend thats not the case. Its not like LA is the only one accused in this sport of doping.

 

[WA_Vol]

Why wouldn't LA show his teammate how to avoid detection?

Hmmmmm, Let's see :question:

Could it be that he didn't want his teammates to know he was doping? Now, I don't know if LA was or wasn't. But it would be pretty stupid for a 6 or 7 time Tour winner to go up to anyone and say, "Do you want me to tell you how you can test negative, Floyd?"

Agreed.

IMO most cycling fans who follow the sport suspect he is a doper. That includes most of LA teammates.

 

[checkerboard_charly]

He is INNOCENT.

 

[VolinArizona]

He is INNOCENT.

How do you figure?

 

[volinbham]

Agreed.

IMO most cycling fans who follow the sport suspect he is a doper. That includes most of LA teammates.

Source?

 

[VolinArizona]

Some cycling analyst on the radio said cycling might be a dirtier sport than international sports.