Lets Discuss Taxes

#1
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therealUT

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#1
Regardless of your feelings on social values, government programs, foreign policy, most of us are in agreement that too much of our income is taken away by the government.

Having read Neal Boortz's book and compared it to Steve Forbe's flat tax, I for one am an opponent of a consumption tax, i.e. a more voluntary tax.

Also, some interesting tax trivia...

FDR's tax policy, the Fair Deal including tax rates of up to 92% for the highest tax bracket.

Jimmy Carter's highest tax bracket was 70%, and remained that way until Reagan lowered it to 28% in 1981 (pretty amazing and quick working for our government.)

The estate tax, imposes a tax upon death of up to 55% on the deceased estate.
 
#2
#2
Haven't seen the full idea for a consumption tax.

Does it have exemptions for essential spending (e.g. food necessities, minimum rent, utilities etc.)?

I think any tax system has to be at least somewhat progressive or in other words have a threshold before taxes set in for people at the low end of the income spectrum.
 
#4
#4
Sorry it took so long, BHam.

First, the Fair Tax would not tax food. Also, it would not tax rent or utilities because those are not retail purchases.

The Fair Tax would also provide a monthly 'prebate' to taxpayers. If you earn $9,570 or less, annually, you receive a check at the beginning of each month for $183.

 
#5
#5
Interesting (no problem on the delay BTW).

Have they calculated roughly what rates need to be used to cover (or get close to covering) the federal budget?
 
#6
#6
It would be a 23% retail sales tax. (Note, it would not replace any state and local tax systems, as it is only a federal tax policy.) However, most of the research the book points to, states that there are already imbedded taxes of around 21.5% to 22.5% in every retail product purchased. So, in the theory of competitive markets, prices of goods would most likely not increase at all.
 
#7
#7
I would recommend that everyone who cares about their tax dollars read Boortz's book. It is short, big print, and a lot of graphs and charts, which pretty much breaks up the monotony of reading a book about taxes.
 
#8
#8
If you ever hear John Linder on Boortz's show and the two of them get going, it makes you want to call your congressman immediately.
 
#10
#10
Can you imagine the looks on people's faces when they got their first paycheck after the Fair Tax was passed and they realized how much they had been losing to Federal withholding?
 
#11
#11
Actually, just for the wake up call, I would love for Congress to repeal the automatic grab from your paycheck before you get it.

Could you imagine the outrage come April, when people have to finally cut that check?
 
#12
#12
(therealUT @ Jul 11 said:
Could you imagine the outrage come April, when people have to finally cut that check?
Click to expand...

I've argued that for a long time. The quickest way to tax and healthcare reform is to end withholdings and make people write a check.
 
#13
#13
Republicans and tax talk, this is such a pleasant thread. I think I'll just keep my comments to myself on this one.

You can thank me later.
 
#14
#14
(Orangewhiteblood @ Jul 11 said:
Republicans and tax talk, this is such a pleasant thread. I think I'll just keep my comments to myself on this one.

You can thank me later.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll be sure to thank you and your democrat friends for tax rates of 92%, 70%, 55%, and 38%...

And, don't pull out the trite argument about Clinton getting rid of the national debt. He did so by cutting our military in half and then raping the top earners in this country.
 
#15
#15
While I prefer a consumption tax, I think legislation of a flat tax is more passable.
 
#16
#16
I think the Flat Tax just might be the most socialist piece of tax legislation ever conceived. Most of the plans that are actually being taken seriously, have anywhere between the first $30K and $36K of income as excludable. Therefore, not even the lower middle class will be paying taxes.
 
#17
#17
(therealUT @ Jul 12 said:
I think the Flat Tax just might be the most socialist piece of tax legislation ever conceived. Most of the plans that are actually being taken seriously, have anywhere between the first $30K and $36K of income as excludable. Therefore, not even the lower middle class will be paying taxes.
Click to expand...

My understanding of the flat tax is that everyone pays about 13%, and I didn't think there were any exclusions for people making over $20,000. I guess I haven't kept up with the models.
 
#18
#18
(Lexvol @ Jul 12 said:
My understanding of the flat tax is that everyone pays about 13%, and I didn't think there were any exclusions for people making over $20,000. I guess I haven't kept up with the models.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, its not one of the parts of the legislation that the media decides to broadcast...one can only speculate as to why the media wouldn't report on the outrage that only those earning $40K a year or more are going to pay taxes and thus carry the weight of those earning less.
 
#19
#19
(therealUT @ Jul 12 said:
Yeah, I'll be sure to thank you and your democrat friends for tax rates of 92%, 70%, 55%, and 38%...

And, don't pull out the trite argument about Clinton getting rid of the national debt. He did so by cutting our military in half and then raping the top earners in this country.
Click to expand...

$296 Billion dollars and counting


 
#20
#20
(Orangewhiteblood @ Jul 12 said:
$296 Billion dollars and counting
Click to expand...

Don't worry, with Bernanke at the helm it will grow even more. That of course is due to the fact that Bernanke believes in leverage, as do all great economists (i.e. reference Adam Smith here.)
 
#21
#21
(Orangewhiteblood @ Jul 12 said:
$296 Billion dollars and counting
Click to expand...

I made a referencial mistake earlier. Clinton did not get rid of the National Debt, his administration did not incur budget deficits from '94-'00.
 
#22
#22
(therealUT @ Jul 12 said:
I made a referencial mistake earlier. Clinton did not get rid of the National Debt, his administration did not incur budget deficits from '94-'00.
Click to expand...

Are you sure there were no budget deficits during that time?

As for the current deficit - it is moving in the right direction at least!
 
#23
#23
The national debt did increase every year under Clinton (very little in his last year). Haven't found the deficit numbers yet but the upward trend suggests that there were budget deficits in all but the last year of the Clinton administration.

Update:

Clinton administration had 3 years of surpluses; Bush admin had one. Highest deficit as percentage of GDP for Clinton was 3.9, for Bush it was 3.6.

Deficits for both administrations were highest in the 2 year period immediately following recessions.

The current deficit is less than 2% of GDP.
 
#24
#24
That is most likely right. I know that his greatest spending cuts starting in 1994 by disbanding the military...
 
#25
#25
Just wait until you see where we are in another couple of years
 
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