Maybe we can learn something from the success of Kelly and Sumlin?

#1
O

oregonvol

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#1
Apparently Brian Kelly was in the running when Kiffin was hired and the same was the case with Kevin Sumlin when Dooley got the job. It's frustrating that we've been so close to hiring successful coaches in the past, but just missed.

What can we learn from this? Both Kelly and Sumlin were young, like Kiffin and Dooley. Both Kelly and Sumlin were successful HCs at mid majors. Both had solid W/L records as HC (which was the main difference between them and both Dooley and Kiffin. Good lord, I hope we don't ignore this record again, in favor of "intangibles" or family names or whatever other garbage we get blinded by).

The good news is, there are alot of guys out there with the same kinds of qualifications Kelly and Sumlin had. Butch Jones, Sonny Dykes, Mark Hudspeth, and even (to some extent) Gus Malzahn. Maybe we could learn from how we've just missed out in the past and interview/vet these guys for the position?
 
#3
#3
Yankee_Vol said:
Or just hire Jon Gruden
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Yeah that's the ideal, isn't it?

For future reference, you can just think of all my posts on this forum as IJGDNCFUT (i.e. If Jon Gruden Does Not Coach For UT). I don't think there's any way it happens, but he'd obviously be my first choice.
 
#5
#5
EezyE said:
Never ever hire Mike Hamilton and allow him to make any decisions again.
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Problem is, I doubt Mike Hamilton made that decision on his own. I'm afraid we still have folks with influence/decision-making power who were involved in the decisions to hire Kiffin and Dooley and who will be involved in this decision as well. It's worrisome to say the least.
 
#6
#6
I actually think part of the problem right now is that there is no Brian Kelly or Kevin Sumlin like coach out there. There are some up-and-comers, but most have very short track records. They could end up being great coaches, but difficult to tell based on one or two good seasons.

Willie Taggert and Charlie Strong come to mind. Strong went 7-6 his first two seasons at Louisville. He has the Cards at 8-1 (if I'm not mistaken) right now, but they've also played more close games than any team I can ever remember. Evidence seems to suggest Strong could be a good HC, but one good season isn't necessarily dispositive.

Willie Taggert has looked good at Western KY, but it's just not the same as winning in the SEC. Could be a great coach, but tough to tell solely based on a couple of OK seasons in the Sun Belt. Also wonder if the UT fan base really wants to take another gamble like it did with Dooley --- even if Taggert's record is actually much more attractive.

There are a few other coaches with similar track records, but no one with a Brian Kelly-like record back when ND hired him; or with a Kevin Sumlin-like record.

My issue with Sonny Dykes is that he's basically run a variation of Mike Leach's offense. I think that type of offense might be very successful in a mid-major or lower-level conference, but I question whether it would be as successful at UT.

I still think Dan Mullen is the most proven head coach out there in the college ranks that might be willing to move to UT. But even with him, still probably need one more season to see for certain how good he is. It's also worth noting that most of his wins this season have come against creampuffs. He had the good fortune to draw Kentucky and Tennessee as his two SEC East opponents. His other marquee win was at Auburn. It's completely plausible that Dooley could have gone 6-0 with Miss State's weak schedule.
 
#7
#7
^^I'll allow that no one out there has as solid a record as Brian Kelly. That said, Jones certainly has as impressive a record as Sumlin did (and arguably, so does Hudspeth and Dykes). Also, disagree about Dykes' offense only being suited to mid-major and lower-level conference. He was Arizona's OC for three years and put up great offensive statistics there. Also, you could have said the same thing about Sumlin's offense (they have a similar background) and it seems to be working just fine in the SEC.

And no, it's never plausible that Derek Dooley would have ever gone 6-0 with any SEC schedule.
 
#9
#9
Kiffin was the right hire!
The main problem was the buyout we gave him...if Kiffin was here we would be a Top 10 program.
 
#10
#10
yoyoyoyo said:
Dave Clawson might win the MAC :loco:
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Your point is? The guy has a losing record at Bowling Green, not comparable to Jones' 27-13 record at Central Michigan, nor his 2 MAC championships in 3 years. And he hasn't coached at a Big East school either.

I wish all of you "it's got to be a big name" folks could realize that's what we've been looking for the past two times, a "name". And so we hired a Kiffin over Kelly and a Dooley over Sumlin. It's time to stop thinking about who has a name you can recognize and start looking at hard statistics.
 
#11
#11
LazhilUT said:
Kiffin was the right hire!
The main problem was the buyout we gave him...if Kiffin was here we would be a Top 10 program.
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Kiffin was a better hire than Dooley, and I agree that he would have brought in talent and had us ranked in the top 25 at the very least. That said, I still think Kelly is the better coach and I don't think he would have left us in one year like Kiffin did.
 
#12
#12
I confirmed something from Sumlin's succeess:

A true dual-threat quarterback will murder a Saban defense. Cam Newton killed him. Manziel abused him. Even an inconsistent player like Steven Garcia gave him fits.

I'd like to find a coach who prefers that kind of dual threat option. It seems to strike right at what the current top teams in the SEC are doing right now defensively.
 
#13
#13
oregonvol said:
Your point is? The guy has a losing record at Bowling Green, not comparable to Jones' 27-13 record at Central Michigan, nor his 2 MAC championships in 3 years. And he hasn't coached at a Big East school either.

I wish all of you "it's got to be a big name" folks could realize that's what we've been looking for the past two times, a "name". And so we hired a Kiffin over Kelly and a Dooley over Sumlin. It's time to stop thinking about who has a name you can recognize and start looking at hard statistics.
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A reference on any UT message board to Dave Clawson becoming our head coach is an obvious joke. Ease up man.
 
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#16
#16
oregonvol said:
^^I'll allow that no one out there has as solid a record as Brian Kelly. That said, Jones certainly has as impressive a record as Sumlin did (and arguably, so does Hudspeth and Dykes). Also, disagree about Dykes' offense only being suited to mid-major and lower-level conference. He was Arizona's OC for three years and put up great offensive statistics there. Also, you could have said the same thing about Sumlin's offense (they have a similar background) and it seems to be working just fine in the SEC.

And no, it's never plausible that Derek Dooley would have ever gone 6-0 with any SEC schedule.
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Sumlin doesn't run the pass-heavy system that Mike Leach disciples have. Sumlin relies more on a dual-threat (run/pass) quarterback. Even though Sumlin's offenses are exciting, they also do a pretty good job of ball control.

I'm going to assume this isn't as true with Sonny Dykes, if his offenses look more like Mike Leach's. Again, I don't really have anything against the Leach / Dykes school, but I think it's not going to be as successful against SEC defenses, as it might be against the WAC or the lower tier of the Pac-12.

If we're talking about Butch Jones, I agree --- but he's not an up and comer. He's an established coach with some baggage. I don't actually have a problem with Butch Jones, but I don't think UT would hire him after how things ended in North Carolina. Too many similar issues at UT over the past few years with Bruce Pearl and Lane Kiffin, so taking a risk on a coach with baggage is unlikely.
 
#17
#17
^^Sumlin was throwing the ball 60 times a game when he had Case Keenum at Houston. Like anyone, he adjusts to his personnel. I think Dykes could do the same.

You've gotten Butch Jones confused with Butch Davis. Davis is the old guy from Miami and UNC. I don't want him. I would have taken him 4 years ago, but I don't want a guy at his age with his baggage now. Butch Jones is the head coach of Cincinatti. He used to be head coach of Central Michigan. He's won double digit games and conference championships at both schools.
 
#18
#18
oregonvol said:
You've gotten Butch Jones confused with Butch Davis. Davis is the old guy from Miami and UNC. I don't want him. I would have taken him 4 years ago, but I don't want a guy at his age with his baggage now. Butch Jones is the head coach of Cincinatti. He used to be head coach of Central Michigan. He's won double digit games and conference championships at both schools.
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I wish more people would realize this.

Anytime I bring up Butch Jones, 90% of the time people cry about the questionable baggage with UNC.

:banghead2::banghead2::banghead2:
 
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