McCain: U.S. Torture did not lead to Bin Laden

#1
Gramps

Gramps

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#1
McCain: U.S. Torture did not lead to bin Laden - CBS News


"In an impassioned speech on the Senate floor, the Republican said former Attorney General Michael Mukasey and others who supported those kind of measures were wrong to claim that waterboarding al Qaeda's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, provided information that led to bin Laden's compound in Pakistan."

"Not only did the use of enhanced interrogation techniques on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed not provide us with key leads on bin Laden's courier, Abu Ahmed, it actually produced false and misleading information," McCain said. He called on Mukasey and others to correct their misstatements"

McCain: If U.S. uses torture, nation will suffer - The Early Show - CBS News

"The fact is that this courier was identified first by a person who was not been held in U.S. custody," McCain said. "In fact, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed not only did not tell the truth about this courier, he even tried to mislead the interrogators by saying that the courier had retired, gotten married, and lived in Peshawar!"

"I'm deeply concerned about who we are as a country, and what we stand for and believe in," McCain told Hill. "America has always been an example, and an inspiration to other countries throughout the world, and if we practice torture and do things that diminish, and even harm the image of the United States, and motivate our enemies, then it could have profound consequences in the future."

I agree with McCain, torture does diminish and harm the image of the USA.

Thoughts?
 
#2
#2
Gramps said:
McCain: U.S. Torture did not lead to bin Laden - CBS News


"In an impassioned speech on the Senate floor, the Republican said former Attorney General Michael Mukasey and others who supported those kind of measures were wrong to claim that waterboarding al Qaeda's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, provided information that led to bin Laden's compound in Pakistan."

"Not only did the use of enhanced interrogation techniques on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed not provide us with key leads on bin Laden's courier, Abu Ahmed, it actually produced false and misleading information," McCain said. He called on Mukasey and others to correct their misstatements"

McCain: If U.S. uses torture, nation will suffer - The Early Show - CBS News

"The fact is that this courier was identified first by a person who was not been held in U.S. custody," McCain said. "In fact, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed not only did not tell the truth about this courier, he even tried to mislead the interrogators by saying that the courier had retired, gotten married, and lived in Peshawar!"

"I'm deeply concerned about who we are as a country, and what we stand for and believe in," McCain told Hill. "America has always been an example, and an inspiration to other countries throughout the world, and if we practice torture and do things that diminish, and even harm the image of the United States, and motivate our enemies, then it could have profound consequences in the future."

I agree with McCain, torture does diminish and harm the image of the USA.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...


McCain diminishes and harms the image of the US. Fact is, that McCain has probably seen a small selection of the intelligence gathered through enhanced interrogation techniques; from that tiny glimpse he is making these statements.

McCain thinks he is somehow an authoritative figure on torture; yet, all his comments regarding torture's lack of effectiveness go against his own personal experience in Vietnam. McCain, according to his own memoirs, gave up what information he knew. Of course, as the torture continued, then he eventually started to say and makeup anything to cut it short.

Our CIA is much more highly trained than the North Vietnamese; they combine warterboarding with many other non-invasive interrogation techniques to verify and corroborate the information gained.

If anyone thinks that it was not worthwhile to waterboard KSM in order to get the courier's name, because then KSM stated that the courier was now retired is a fool. Getting the name is huge and then can be used in many other interrogations (whether enhanced or not) to get to specifics and actionable intel.

Bottom line: McCain is a political clown.
 
#4
#4
IIRC McCain said he got this information from the current CIA Director. That same CIA Director indicated important information DID come from KSM post WB.

I don't think there is any doubt we received useful information from EITs and some of that info was a part of what allowed us to track down UBL

In a previous debate on torture someone argued that mental damage from torture (e.g. WB) is as bad as physical. Well McCain had both and he certainly seems to have overcome - so much in fact he was a few electoral votes from being POTUS.

EIT should be part of our toolkit - rarely used but available to the POTUS.

If we can fire cruise missiles into a country we are not at war with in an attempt to kill a US citizen we suspect of doing bad things, then we should be able to use EIT.
 
#5
#5
therealUT said:
McCain diminishes and harms the image of the US. Fact is, that McCain has probably seen a small selection of the intelligence gathered through enhanced interrogation techniques; from that tiny glimpse he is making these statements.

McCain thinks he is somehow an authoritative figure on torture; yet, all his comments regarding torture's lack of effectiveness go against his own personal experience in Vietnam. McCain, according to his own memoirs, gave up what information he knew. Of course, as the torture continued, then he eventually started to say and makeup anything to cut it short.

Our CIA is much more highly trained than the North Vietnamese; they combine warterboarding with many other non-invasive interrogation techniques to verify and corroborate the information gained.

If anyone thinks that it was not worthwhile to waterboard KSM in order to get the courier's name, because then KSM stated that the courier was now retired is a fool. Getting the name is huge and then can be used in many other interrogations (whether enhanced or not) to get to specifics and actionable intel.

Bottom line: McCain is a political clown.
Click to expand...

volinbham said:
IIRC McCain said he got this information from the current CIA Director. That same CIA Director indicated important information DID come from KSM post WB.

I don't think there is any doubt we received useful information from EITs and some of that info was a part of what allowed us to track down UBL

In a previous debate on torture someone argued that mental damage from torture (e.g. WB) is as bad as physical. Well McCain had both and he certainly seems to have overcome - so much in fact he was a few electoral votes from being POTUS.

EIT should be part of our toolkit - rarely used but available to the POTUS.

If we can fire cruise missiles into a country we are not at war with in an attempt to kill a US citizen we suspect of doing bad things, then we should be able to use EIT.
Click to expand...

I agree with both of these pretty much.

I commend JM for his service to the country in the military, but don't agree with him on this.
 
#6
#6
It's inconsistent for someone to say it is wrong to waterboard a high level terrorist who we know has info we need and it's ok to shoot an unarmed OBL.
 
#7
#7
therealUT said:
McCain diminishes and harms the image of the US. Fact is, that McCain has probably seen a small selection of the intelligence gathered through enhanced interrogation techniques; from that tiny glimpse he is making these statements.
Click to expand...


You mean like all of the folks on Fox and on the far right, who have even less information about what was done and the outcome but have no problem spouting off that enhanced interrogation techniques played a critical role?

As I've said earlier, we are not going to know what was done or what was learned and we aren't going to know how important it was or wasn't. Not only that, but we can safely assume that a lot of what we are told is going to be a bit off so as to intentionally mislead and confuse the enemy.
 
#8
#8
lawgator1 said:
You mean like all of the folks on Fox and on the far right, who have even less information about what was done and the outcome but have no problem spouting off that enhanced interrogation techniques played a critical role?

As I've said earlier, we are not going to know what was done or what was learned and we aren't going to know how important it was or wasn't. Not only that, but we can safely assume that a lot of what we are told is going to be a bit off so as to intentionally mislead and confuse the enemy.
Click to expand...

Isn't that for the better for the most part? We are asking these people to do a job that keeps the American people safe, as long as the results end in safety should we really need to know the depths of how it happens?
 
#9
#9
BeecherVol said:
Isn't that for the better for the most part? We are asking these people to do a job that keeps the American people safe, as long as the results end in safety should we really need to know the depths of how it happens?
Click to expand...

Security or freedom?
 
#10
#10
BeecherVol said:
Isn't that for the better for the most part? We are asking these people to do a job that keeps the American people safe, as long as the results end in safety should we really need to know the depths of how it happens?
Click to expand...


I think this is one of those things where we have to put a certain amount of trust in the government to deal with the issue in a sensible manner that is for the good of the country.

This is really a much easier area to trust them in than one which in any way involves private interests.

For example, given what happened with the alleged WMD and Iraq, and given all of the agendas surrounding the war with Iraq that ensued, its tough to trust them on an issue that is the basis for going to war in the first place. OTOH, it is difficult to see similar agendas or potentials for personal gain that would grow out of the enhanced interrogation process.

I think it is pretty evident that Obama is himself fairly conflicted over it, which is probably as it should be. I know I am.
 
#13
#13
Regardless, this shouldn't be a public conversation. Do what you have to, don't advertise it.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#15
#15
Ridiculous that the man even has to give a explanation. Adam Corrola summed it up pretty nicely in Droski's post.
 
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