Missouri talent level

#1
tennesseekilt

tennesseekilt

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#1
I understand that anything can happen when two teams put on pads and start hitting but, understanding that Missouri's success has mostly had to do with their schemes and QB play (which can be prepared for), it seems like many Vol fans are still afraid of this game. Sure, they've beaten some good teams, but all you need to do to realize they put on their pants the same way we do is take a gander at their recruiting the last 4 years...

Missouri recruiting (2010 - 2013)

10 4* players (most of these were in their - for them - monster 2010 recruiting class, which does explain some of their success)
1 5* player

The rest, especially the last 3 years, are a mixture of 3* and 2* players. Even under Dooley, we recruited as much talent in 1 year as they have in 4. Obviously, this isn't an overly accurate predictor, but talent still corresponds to some degree to success, which is one reason why Alabama beat us so badly last week.

I completely understand the loss with Dooley at the helm last year, especially given the horrific defensive schemes (guy standing in the end zone corner twiddling his thumbs waiting for the game-tying TD, etc.), but I see no reason why we shouldn't compete and possibly win this game under Butch.
 
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#2
#2
2* players with decent coaching are better than 4* players with horrid coaching. That said, UT has more raw talent, hopefully it continues to be developed and we see the fruits of the labor Saturday.

Oh yeah, Missouri blows.
 
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#4
#4
UF had better talent than Mizzou. Even with their injuries. You can recruit all you want but you also have to build that talent up. Pinkel's staff does a good job with that.
 
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#5
#5
tennesseekilt said:
I understand that anything can happen when two teams put on pads and start hitting but, understanding that Missouri's success has mostly had to do with their schemes and QB play (which can be prepared for), it seems like many Vol fans are still afraid of this game. Sure, they've beaten some good teams, but all you need to do to realize they put on their pants the same way we do is take a gander at their recruiting the last 4 years...

Missouri recruiting (2010 - 2013)

10 4* players (most of these were in their - for them - monster 2010 recruiting class, which does explain some of their success)
1 5* player

The rest, especially the last 3 years, are a mixture of 3* and 2* players. Even under Dooley, we recruited as much talent in 1 year as they have in 4. Obviously, this isn't an overly accurate predictor, but talent still corresponds to some degree to success, which is one reason why Alabama beat us so badly last week.

I completely understand the loss with Dooley at the helm last year, especially given the horrific defensive schemes (guy standing in the end zone corner twiddling his thumbs waiting for the game-tying TD, etc.), but I see no reason why we shouldn't compete and possibly win this game under Butch.
Click to expand...

Stargazing can lead you to the wrong conclusions.
 
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#6
#6
Yep...Not sure why we keep rehashing the talent level of our players while they were being recruited IN HIGH SCHOOL (not yelling). Our players have not been developed since. There is also the issue of how many of the highly rated players are still on campus and/or contributing. Then there is the issue of how well they fit into the schemes. Finally, The difference in speed from high school to D1 football is 5 yards in the skill positions. The game just moves so fast and the players are ALL big, strong and incredibly skilled. There is never a guarantee that players can make that leap.

To boil it down, Rankings matter only to the extent that players are developed and are capable of making the jump to this level of play. It doesn't really make a compelling argument to compare recruiting classes. What matters is what's on the field. Missouri's most dominant player (Michael Sam) was a 2* on Rivals. Just sayin'

:peace2:
 
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#7
#7
We should have an edge on talent going in to Saturday but what has really helped Mizzou this yr is damn good QB play. Not to be putting Worley down but I feel that we would be a lot better team if we had a good QB.
 
#9
#9
Dragon18 said:
Yep...Not sure why we keep rehashing the talent level of our players while they were being recruited IN HIGH SCHOOL (not yelling). Our players have not been developed since. There is also the issue of how many of the highly rated players are still on campus and/or contributing. Then there is the issue of how well they fit into the schemes. Finally, The difference in speed from high school to D1 football is 5 yards in the skill positions. The game just moves so fast and the players are ALL big, strong and incredibly skilled. There is never a guarantee that players can make that leap.

To boil it down, Rankings matter only to the extent that players are developed and are capable of making the jump to this level of play. It doesn't really make a compelling argument to compare recruiting classes. What matters is what's on the field. Missouri's most dominant player (Michael Sam) was a 2* on Rivals. Just sayin'

:peace2:
Click to expand...

I agree that all those factors play a part, but still, if you take a look at top 10 in recruiting vs top 10 in rankings, they still correlate to some degree. It's not an entirely accurate predictor, but it's a predictor nonetheless.

When AL can replace Vinnie Sunseri with a 5* who looks like a young Eric Berry and never miss a beat, that's pretty special. Obviously, the gap between AL and UT in talent is huge due to a number of factors, but there is also a gap between UT and Mizz, although not nearly as large. Coaching being the same, we SHOULD compete well.

At least that's what I'm hoping! :unsure:
 
#10
#10
With the exception of Auburn we should have the edge in talent in the next 4 games.
Depth is still a problem in our secondary. We want no injuries there.
The 12th man will neutralize the talent gap against Aub.
4-0 baby.
 
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#11
#11
MO has gotten really lucky with when they played teams - I see no way they beat a fully loaded Georgia and they still have a few tough games left - they are not a top 10 team in the country imo

they don't have to be to beat us - but the idea that we don't have a good shot in this game is ridiculous
 
#12
#12
Mo - upper class heavy athletes have been playing in the same offensive and defensive systems for the past 3 or 4 years. They know the alignments and schemes in their sleep. Our team - is trying to learn a new system on both offense and defense and unlearn what Dooley's coaches screwed up.

Some of the Mo players are playing beyond their star rankings - for example the cat with 10 sacks and 3 tfl. They have strategically recruited extremely tall receivers and it has allowed them to leverage advantages over smaller dbs. Other than Franklin - I don't think they have had a lot of injuries. Mo has the home field advantage - worth at least 7 pts. imo.
 
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#13
#13
I still believe that coaching matters alot more than the * levels placed on a kid coming out of high school.

There's alot more 2* and 3* players in the NFL than there are 4* and 5* players.

We haven't coached them up right for several years now but we finally have real coaches working to get us back to having well coached players and it's still going to take several more years of good recruiting and good coaching to get us back up to elite status.

I'll use logic which is normally banned here on VN and simply say this...

We beat USCe and they beat Mizzou so it will be really tough but we should get the WIN over Mizzou this week.

Taking logic out then we all know that anything can happen on any given Gameday.

Our kids will want to show the world that they're better than what everyone saw against alaBummer so I believe bUTch and our boys will be focused and highly motivated and we'll match hit for hit all day long!

#BrickbyBrick...VFL...GBO!!!
 
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#14
#14
tennesseekilt said:
I agree that all those factors play a part, but still, if you take a look at top 10 in recruiting vs top 10 in rankings, they still correlate to some degree. It's not an entirely accurate predictor, but it's a predictor nonetheless.

When AL can replace Vinnie Sunseri with a 5* who looks like a young Eric Berry and never miss a beat, that's pretty special. Obviously, the gap between AL and UT in talent is huge due to a number of factors, but there is also a gap between UT and Mizz, although not nearly as large. Coaching being the same, we SHOULD compete well.

At least that's what I'm hoping! :unsure:
Click to expand...

I agree with you regarding the teams that are top 10 recruiting on an annual basis. The star system is not to be discounted because these kids clearly have the best opportunity to succeed. I think for those teams that fall out of the top ten, these other factors become incredibly important.

Please don't misunderstand me either. I think we have a great chance to win this weekend. Our coaching and development have improved tenfold over what we have had the past several years and we are seeing the gains on the field. GBO!!! :peace2:
 
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#15
#15
Yeah our classes were ahead of theirs and a lot of teams but we then proceeded to lose half of the players and some never even made it on the field.
 
#16
#16
calban said:
With the exception of Auburn we should have the edge in talent in the next 4 games.
Depth is still a problem in our secondary. We want no injuries there.
The 12th man will neutralize the talent gap against Aub.
4-0 baby.
Click to expand...

HELLS YEAH!!!!:rock:
 
#18
#18
Hopefully we run the up tempo to perfection with Dobbs and wear these guys down.

Unless I am mistaken; they have some of the same depth issues! Maybe we get Riyhad Jones to play lights out??? Blanket DGB???

This game does not scare me as much as the Barn Game; which I will be attending by the way!

I for one am looking forward to a great game from our boys who are hungry for a signature road win! :loco:
 
#19
#19
Fullfillmer said:
Mo - upper class heavy athletes have been playing in the same offensive and defensive systems for the past 3 or 4 years. They know the alignments and schemes in their sleep. Our team - is trying to learn a new system on both offense and defense and unlearn what Dooley's coaches screwed up.

Some of the Mo players are playing beyond their star rankings - for example the cat with 10 sacks and 3 tfl. They have strategically recruited extremely tall receivers and it has allowed them to leverage advantages over smaller dbs. Other than Franklin - I don't think they have had a lot of injuries. Mo has the home field advantage - worth at least 7 pts. imo.
Click to expand...
Tiny as much as guaranteed Sam won't ROAR Saturday.
I believe him.
 
#20
#20
Mizzou has had success this year based on two factors:

1. They're healthier than they were last year.

2. Their opponents have been banged up from the week before.
 
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#21
#21
There have only been 2 games UT could not have won this year: Oregon and Bama. I think there is some hope in that truth. Let's not let the Bama whipping cloud perspective. UT has a good chance to win. Pressure the qb and we win. Has any team Mizzou beaten had to play Oregon and Bama beforehand? I didn't look it up but I don't think so. That's pretty good preparation right there. It only gets easier from here imo. Not EASY, but EASIER.
 
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#22
#22
At some point we can't use talent as an excuse as to why we keep losing. Bama wouldn't have beat us like they did if we didn't play scared, and our coaches didn't get the "oh my it's Bama" disease in their heads. Teams like Bama remind me of Tiger Woods in his prime. Every time he started to make a push everyone would fold and he'd end up winning every time. Once people realized the guy is just a man he lost that mental edge on people, and now he has to play perfect to win tournaments. Bama and other great teams are just a team, and CBJ tried to send that message home calling Bama the red team. Unfortunately, Jancek didn't receive the message and our defense played so passive we got killed over and over again early on.
 
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#24
#24
jlindsa4 said:
Remember that Missouri beat #1 Oklahoma in 2010? They got a good coach.
Click to expand...

Very True. However, Oklahoma is known for losing games they shouldn't lose. They would also choke to Ok State a time or 2 when they were great. They also got rolled by Texas a few weeks back. They call him "big game Bob' for a reason
 
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