My idea to make Cup more exciting...

#1

DownNDirty

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#1
Making races more like my favorite form of racing - Dirt Late Models.

You start out by qualifying everyone like normal say on a Friday. I'm going to use Bristol as my race weekend here. We will also assume we have 46 cars show up.

You have two "Showdown" races on Saturday. Get a flipping sponsor because we all know there has to be sponsors. So Showdown race #1 sponsored by Vault Energy and Showdown #2 sponsored by Wal-Mart or whatever. Each Showdown race on Saturday will help set the starting field for Sunday's race. With 46 cars at BMS there will be two races with 23 cars each in them (odd cars from qualifying race one and even from qualifying race two) - and at Bristol each race will be 50 laps. Caution laps will not count in the last ten laps of these races.

The top 15 cars from each Showdown race automatically gets into the Cup race on Sunday. These Showdowns will also have points as well. No lap leaders or leading the most laps or anything like that - we'll save the normal points for Sunday. Saturday the top 5 cars in each race will receive points and that is all that will receive points. 1st will get 75, 2nd will get 50, 3rd will get 40, 4th will get 30, and 5th will get 20 points in each race. No one else gets points but the drivers 6th - 15th automatically make the starting field of the Cup race on Sunday.

The remainder of the field will be filled in a few ways. We lock in 30 cars by the Showdowns on Saturday.

Then we have another race for guys 30th on back by how they finished in the Showdowns. This 25 lap race will take place after the Nationwide/Truck race - whatever your support division is if you have one that weekend. If there is no support race that weekend then those cars not transferring through the Showdowns are impounded after their respective races as to not give the drivers in race one an advantage and allow them to make significant setup changes. You give teams 5 minutes after the conclusion of each race to make changes and that is all.

Bristol would have the Nationwide cars so no impound would be necessary. The cars would just have to be staged by the conclusion of the Nationwide race and if they miss staging they don't race, period.

Ok, this hooligan race will put 4 more cars into the Cup race on Sunday. No points up for grabs in this one just a guarantee you are in the Cup race. Quick math says with 46 cars total and assuming no one crashes or blows up that puts 16 cars in a race trying to get the last 4 guaranteed spots and positions 31-34 on the grid for Sunday.

The remainder of the field will be determined by:

Positions 35-40 goes to the top 6 in points not already in the show.

Positions 41-42 goes to the two fastest qualifiers from Friday not already in the race.

Position 43 goes to the most recent past champion (within the last 10 years - Sorry Bill and Terry) not in the race already. If all past champions are in the race already then it goes to the next driver on points standings that would have missed the race from above.

The only thing I would change about the Cup races in my scheme here is award points differently. There still isn't enough incentive to win in Cup racing. Give the winner 100 points more than second place and you'll likely see more racing for the win. Also, cut points off at 30th position. This will keep damaged cars for the most part off the track and not riding around hoping to pick up 3-10 points in a few hours.

You may say I'm crazy and I probably am. You may also say how can they fit this into their television block? Simple, you cut out practice sessions on Saturday. The time you show Happy Hour on Saturday will now be filled with MEANINGFUL racing. No driver in my system could whine and complain about missing a show. No more of this top 35 bullcrap (which may not matter next year anyway I realize that) which can really mess up some guys. Everyone has equal opportunity to race their way into the show on Sunday in various ways. You can do it through qualifying effort, by making it through a Showdown, by making it through a hooligan, or by point standings. If by some crazy happening the guy running 8th in Cup points misses the race then so be it. He had 3 chances - it just wasn't his weekend.

Each track would be different with the amount of laps for the races to fit it into a nice TV package.

Daytona would be the ONLY difference as it is the 500 and special. You'd lock the top 2 from qualifying into spots 1-2 for the 500 like always and run the 150's. Then you'd basically do it like they used to before they had the top 35 rule within my system here.

Dega, Daytona for the other 3 races - two races each of 25 laps followed by the 20 lap hooligan.

Michigan/California/Pocono/Indy - 25 laps/20 hooligan

All the 1.5 milers - 30 laps/20 hooligan

Dover/Phoenix/Darlington - 35 laps/25 hooligan

Bristol/Martinsville/Richmond - 50 laps/25 hooligan

Sears Point/Watkins Glen - 15 laps/10 hooligan

This would make Cup more interesting to me.
 
#2
#2
You've obviously put a lot of thought into this, and you know what, for the most part I like it. Makes a lot of sense, which is why it probably would never happen. There is not much that is more boring than single car qualifying. Your plan eliminates it, so teams don't have to worry about two setups. I hate the go or go home deal, and you've eliminated it as well. Would you still have the Chase?
 
#3
#3
Sounds interesting........ but Nascar would never go for this. JMO, I think it might work on dirt tracks where the aero is not as important on the cars, but not on SuperSpeedways. They would be racing two races per weekend. (More chances to wreck their cars, or tear up their cars before the actual race) The teams would argue that the costs would be too high. Now maybe if you shortened the length of the actual race to bring down some costs ........ but I still think you would have a tough time selling it to NASCAR. I do like the idea and I think that the qualifiers might even be as good as or even better than the actual race in this scenario. Another hurdle to get past NASCAR. It would make it more exciting for the fans, No Doubt!
 
#4
#4
I agree Adidas that shortening the race would be required. I have been as advocate of that for a while anyway.

Years ago, for the first 8 or 10 years they had a qualifying race on Saturday at Bristol for the last 10 positions I believe. It was always entertaining, at that time the field was limited to 36 cars. It gave drivers that were perennial backmarkers the chance to be competitive and win some tire money.

I don't recall there being a lot of wrecks, but then that was before they increased the banking and narrowed the groove.
 
#5
#5
As far as the Chase goes I would keep it but tweak it. NASCAR wants to be the NFL so by gum we'll make it like the NFL.

10 race Chase just like there is now. Would change the Chase schedule up though and have it be:

Race 1 - New Hampshire
Race 2 - Bristol
Race 3 - Dover
Race 4 - Sears Point
Race 5 - Lowes
Race 6 - Martinsville
Race 7 - Dega
Race 8 - Texas
Race 9 - Phoenix
Race 10 - Homestead

I'd move California/Kansas out to add one more short track (Bristol) and the roadie at Sears Point to make the last 10 tracks as diverse as possible. All 10 of those tracks are quite different. Lowes and Texas are the most similar but different enough.

As far as how the Chase would work back to the NFL thing. Each week in the NFL playoffs people get eliminated. We would start the Chase with 12 drivers just like we have now.

After race two of the Chase the bottom 2 are OUT - eliminated. After race four we take 2 more out - cutting it to 8. After race six we cut 2 more out cutting it to 6. After race eight we cut two more out cutting it to 4.

We will go into the last race of the Chase with only 4 drivers having a chance to win the Cup. I would only do the points reset once like they do now - when the Chase first starts. If it comes down to the final race like this year and really only 2 can win it so be it. But this would make EVERY SINGLE Chase race very important. You'd need to stay alive. Two bad races on the front end of the Chase and you are out no matter what. High pressure for each race this way and more excitement and it would create more racing as well.

As far as the second poster talking about more racing and more money spent. That's partially true but let me expand my thoughts a little since I've started here.

Absolutely NO testing on any NASCAR sanctioned tracks would be allowed anymore saving teams a TON of money. The only testing done would be tire tests. Sure, guys could still rent out a non NASCAR track like, say, Myrtle Beach. That is, if Myrtle Beach isn't NASCAR sanctioned weekly. You get my point though....

The extra racing on the weekend is added exposure for the sponsors. Now you can go to a sponsor and say no matter what I'll get to be in a race during the race weekend (barring a rainout).

This could also take some of the Cup guys out of the Nationwide races since they'd be more focused on their "race" on Saturday now. No more track hopping if Nationwide is somewhere else since you'll have a Cup Showdown that day. Everyone uses the excuse that Cup guys in Nationwide races boosts attendance and that's the main reason NASCAR allows it to such a degree. Well, now if a Nationwide race is at the same track as the Cup guys fans gets to see two Cup qualifiers every weekend as part of their Nationwide ticket. Seeing Dale Jr, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, etc. with every single Nationwide support race would surely have to draw in a bigger crowd on Saturday's. Then maybe the Nationwide series could go back to being a developmental series and a series for older guys to go to once again. I'm not suggesting to take the Cup guys completely out of the series but it would basically prevent a Cup regular from winning a Nationwide championship.

Also remember that these Showdown races have eliminated Happy Hour sessions. The teams are basically going to be running the same amount of laps in a Showdown as they would have ran in Happy Hour anyway - but now they are racing for points and starting spots in the Cup race as well. Also remember, only the top 5 in each Showdown race gets points so they are actually RACING instead of following each other around. A race for 5th and a race for 15th in each race - twice a weekend. Surely these races will become the darlings of the sport and more exciting than the Sunday shows.

Oh, speaking of - yes we will shorten quite a few Cup races. Not all of them just some. Here's a new breakdown

Daytona - 200 laps for the 500 stays the same

California - both races go from 500 miles to 400

Vegas - stays at 400

Atlanta - both races from 500 to 400

Bristol - Spring race to 400, fall stays at 500

Martinsville - both races to 400

Texas - One 500, one 400

Phoenix - both go from 500 to 400

Dega - One race to 400, the other stays at 500

Richmond - both stay at 400

Darlington - the Southern 500

Lowes - Coca-Cola 600 can't be messed with, the other race stays at 500 since this is the home of NASCAR

Dover - One race to 300, the other stays at 400

Pocono - BOTH races to 400 for the love of God

Michigan - Both races to 400

Sears Point/Glen - stays the same

Daytona Firecracker - stays the same at 400

New Hampshire - Both stay at 300

Chicago - stays at 400

Indy - stays at 400

Kansas - stays at 400

Homestead - stays at 400

This cuts down several races and leaves some alone as well. Good blend there. I would also completely restructure the CTS and Nationwide Series to make them more marketable to fans/sponsors. I might put something up on how I'd change them around later. Enough typing for now lol
 
#6
#6
as long as college football continues to start on Labor Day weekend, Bristol will never be moved into the Chase. it just doesn't make sense for them to schedule a race dead smack in the middle of two huge football dominated areas.

and not only would they be competing with VaTech and UT, but also high school football.

and Pocono needs to be demolished. that's the only thing that can help that race.

most of your other ideas make too much sense for NA$CAR to even consider.
 
#7
#7
You are probably right about Bristol - didn't think about that. Yes Pocono is boring - if we were actually talking about removing tracks I'd take one race away from them and New Hampshire both for sure. I would then add Iowa for sure and another road course. Iowa may need more seating but I'm sure they'd build enough if they had a Cup date.
 
#8
#8
i would love to a race removed form New Hampshire and Pocono removed from the face of the Earth.

Iowa, Nashville and Kentucky would all be good spots, but NA$CAR would rather try to race in NY and the Northwest.
 
#9
#9
I like the idea of shorter races. and Qualifying definatly needs to be done diffrently. Too bad the higher ups that have the power to get something done think nothing is wrong. I really wish they would have a points cut off like you said - talk about saving teams money, look at all the patch work and radiators they go through just to gain 3-6 points.
 
#12
#12
With the exception of Daytona 500 and World 600, I would shorten all races to a maximum of 400 laps or 300 miles, whichever is shorter. Thus 1/2 mile to 3/4 mile would run 400 laps, all others would be 300 miles. The exception would be the road courses, and they should be a length that would be around two hours in duration.

The advantages of this are reduced costs for teams, fewer tires, less wear and tear. The package would be more attractive to the TV people, and in my opinion, the racing would be more exciting with less "cruise" time. I would also propose a time limit of 150 minutes on all but the two longer races, and they should have a proportionate one on them. Red flag time would not count, but rain delay would if the race is half over.
 
#13
#13
Some changes I would like to see, but probably will never see:

1. Take 1 race away from Pocono, New Hampshire, and California.
2. Give those races to Kentucky, Nashville, and Iowa.
3. Shorten most races, I like DownNDirty's race length ideas.
4. A Cup driver can only race 5 Nationwide races a year when the 2 Series are at the same track. A Cup driver can run all Nationwide race when the 2 Series are at different tracks.
5. Shorten the length of the racing season. Start in mid February and end on Labor Day. The season is so long now as it is by the time football seasons roll around I quit watching Nascar.
 
#14
#14
Some changes I would like to see, but probably will never see:


5. Shorten the length of the racing season. Start in mid February and end on Labor Day. The season is so long now as it is by the time football seasons roll around I quit watching Nascar.


That would require dropping about 10 races, which would you drop besides those mentioned. (couldn't replace any either)
 
#15
#15
I think it would be pretty easy to shorten the season and beneficial to the teams/drivers/fans if they done it like this:

I'm going to use the 2009 schedule as a baseline with some minor tweaking. 2009 FANTASY SCHEDULE

Anyone remember when they used to start the year off BEFORE the Daytona 500? We are going to again in 2009. They used to run the old Riverside track out in California around the 10th of January each year to kick off the season. Without further ado…

1. Las Vegas the first race of the year – literally. We will run Vegas on New Years Day – Thursday January 1st 2009. Huge fireworks extravaganza after the race. Time the race where it ends around dark – the daytime temps in Vegas average about 60 degrees in January so I think it could work.

2. California gets decent treatment here and moves to Sunday afternoon January 24th.

3. The whole Daytona thing stays the same except its now the 3rd race on the schedule. Shootout still 2/7, 150s still 2/12, and the Daytona 500 still 2/15

4. Trying to stay in somewhat warmer climates Phoenix moves to 2/22

5. Texas moves to 3/1

6. Sunday 3/8 stays the same with Atlanta

7. Bristol goes to 3/15

8. Talladega goes to 3/22

9. Richmond to Saturday night 3/28

10. Darlington to Sunday 4/5 then (OFF EASTER WEEKEND 4/12)

11. Michigan to Sunday 4/19

12. Pocono to Sunday 4/26

13. Dover to Sunday 5/4

14. Sears Point to Sunday 5/10 (Mothers Day Race)

15. New Hampshire to Sunday 5/17

16. The Coca Cola 600 will take place on Memorial Day weekend as it always does – Sunday night 5/24. The All Star Race will now not have its own weekend. It will be held on Wednesday night 5/20. The fans are all in Concord anyway so let them really get to see some racing over a 5 day stretch. This cuts out a weekend wasted on the All Star race alone (OFF WEEKEND BUILT IN HERE FOR 5/31)

17. Sears Point slots in next here for Sunday 6/7

18. California moves from the Chase to WEDNESDAY NIGHT 6/10 – they are already out on the left coast and this could accommodate the teams. They could haul their road course and Speedway cars out and have two races in a several day stretch here.

19. New Hampshire falls in next for a race 6/14. Yes, that is 3 races in two weeks but two are right together on the West coast and would save teams money to not have to haul out there again later in the year. (OFF WEEK TO RECOUP FOR 6/21)

20. Michigan goes to 6/28

21. Daytona stays where it is for the traditional 4th of July race on Saturday night July 4th

22. Chicago lights up on Wednesday night July 8th

23. Kansas gets the next date on Sunday July 12th

24. Sunday July 19th goes to Pocono

25. Indy stays where it is Sunday July 26th

26. Atlanta moves into the last race before the Chase slot on Saturday night August 1st

27. Richmond scoots down into the first race of the Chase on Wednesday night August 5th

28. Bristol makes the Chase as well and moves to Saturday night August 8th (OFF WEEKEND FOR 8/16)

29. Watkins Glen gets the Sunday August 23rd slot

30. Dover goes to Sunday August 30th

31. Lowes gets the Labor Day race. Its close to home base for the teams and they will race on Sunday night September 6th

32. Talladega slotted next for Sunday September 13th

33. Texas gets a Wednesday night Texas Showdown on September 16th

34. Phoenix – as they continue to travel Westward goes on tap for Saturday night September 19th

35. Martinsville moves to the next to last race in the Chase on Sunday September 27th

36. The final race of the year, Homestead, moves to Saturday night October 3rd


This does cut the season down some and ends it at the first of October. Yeah, they are racing in January now BUT without the testing and all that other mess its not as big of an issue. The two January races are spread out somewhat and gives them a break before Daytona too. The Wednesday races are placed in such a way to help teams with travel costs. Yeah, rainouts could present a problem but there are always off weekends built in just in case of such incidents. The teams would basically have 3 full months off from racing before they hit it on New Years Day at Vegas. And really, who wouldn’t want to spend New Years in Vegas?

I realize my new schedule would really mess with the Nationwide/Truck schedules too and if I feel motivated enough I will do schedules for them to and make it fit within my Cup schedule.
 
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#16
#16
I doubt NASCAR would put a race before Daytona even though they did at Riverside. All the teams didn't go out there BTW.

I would like to see Bristol a month later as it used to be. We have had snow on race day more than once.

You really aren't shortening the season as much as moving it up on the calendar.

I doubt Sprint would go for the All Star race the same week as the 600.
 
#17
#17
After thinking about it I wouldn't race on New Years Day. It would be cool to do but College Bowl games are New Years Day and that wouldn't fly. I would just start the season January 18th at Vegas and run the 24th at California. Starting on the 18th would give the Cup guys 15 weeks off from the end of the season to the start of the new season. Currently with the way it works now they have 11 - so they'd have another full month off.

I don't think the All Star Race is so impressive that it merits its own weekend anymore. I'd venture to bet that, conservatively, 30-40% of the people that go to the All Star Race stay all week in Concord and also go to the 600 weekend. This way you are just cutting out a few days of spending for these fans.

If I were NASCAR God and could tweak the actual schedule I would remove one from Pocono, New Hampshire, and California. Replacing those with Iowa, another RC track, and Nashville/Memphis. Iowa and Nashville or Memphis would be ideal for Wednesday night shows.

We all know it won't happen but its fun to think about how we could make it better....
 
#18
#18
Well you are right it probably won't happen DND, but I am sending your ideas and the feedback from the others to Mike Helton just to see what he has to say.

I should send it to Brian France, but I don't know him.

In any case I've enjoyed your proposals, don't keep these thoughts to yourself.
 
#19
#19
Well you are right it probably won't happen DND, but I am sending your ideas and the feedback from the others to Mike Helton just to see what he has to say.

While you're at it rbroyles, Could you please tell him the Fans would also like to see races start by 11am, NOON at the latest?
 
#21
#21
i like the later races, especially now that it's dark at 6.

it gives me plenty of time get errands done or outside housework in before the start.
 
#22
#22
i like the later races, especially now that it's dark at 6.

it gives me plenty of time get errands done or outside housework in before the start.

Good points. Personally, an earlier start would mean not being up so late calculating results.
 
#23
#23
Good points. Personally, an earlier start would mean not being up so late calculating results.

:birgits_giggle: there's pluses and minuses to each side i think.

i understand the west coast, but i think 1 pm is just about acceptable for any track on the east coast.
 

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