New thoughts on the riots

#1

utgibbs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
7,394
Likes
0
#1
I've been thinking about the youth riots in England.

Obviously, the police shot an unarmed black man - fairly common here - and then tried to cover it up by shooting one of their own radios. This sparked a legitimate, and initially peaceful, protest march that turned violent when the police interfered again. I would say the first nights of riot was absolutely legitimate political violence. This little fact has been swept under the rug in the bourgeois history (as it always is).

Then the teenagers took to the streets to pick up as much swag as they could. In a way, this was simply a reenactment of what they see from the adults in their culture. MPs had fiddled their expenses, the bankers defraud the poor and pay themselves enormous sums for sending the economy into a depression, the Welfare Dads loot the public treasury with impunity, good English Victorians have been looting the lands of the "lesser breeds without the law" for a long, long, long time.

Retrograde and deeply reactionary figures like David Cameron will moralize, without socks, about order, morality, and family values. He comes from the stock of the Great Looters, wealth amassed on the backs of slaves and coolies - with a generous helping from the profits of war.

There will be retrograde figures among you who will deny this, but I think the teenagers on the street know it very well.
 
#2
#2
Oh ok. So the rioting is justified. OK Gibbs, I want you to start rioting about what you perceive as injustices
 
#3
#3
can't imagine how i missed that the rich were to blame for young people looting. you make the world so clear.
 
#5
#5
they went and stole stuff from stores. Any other explanation is useless
 
#6
#6
only in gibbs' own private Idaho do British teenagers have a better grasp of society than the adults

I wonder how many people are kept poor because gibbs has enjoyed success as a member of the bourgeois capitalists of America?
 
#7
#7
only in gibbs' own private Idaho do British teenagers have a better grasp of society than the adults

I wonder how many people are kept poor because gibbs has enjoyed success as a member of the bourgeois capitalists of America?

as long as his workers don't make as much money as he does they are being exploited. remember income disparities are the root of all evil.
 
#8
#8
You know, for a guy as hung up on this greater good to be acheived by humans mentality you sure do a bang-up job of rationalizing acts of random violence. Kudos.
 
#9
#9
You know, for a guy as hung up on this greater good to be acheived by humans mentality you sure do a bang-up job of rationalizing acts of random violence. Kudos.

in gibbs' private world, political violence is always justified if it is targeted against capitalist institutions

it really helps when the perpetrators are wearing Che Guevara t-shirts, but not required
 
#10
#10
Various leftist spins:

spiked | London’s burning: a mob made by the welfare state

Many commentators are on a mission to contextualise the riots that have swept parts of urban London and other British cities. ‘It’s very naive to look at these riots without the context’, says one journalist, who says the reason the violence kicked off in the London suburb of Tottenham is because ‘that area is getting 75% cuts [in public services]’.

Others have said that the political context for the rioting is youth unemployment or working-class anger at David Cameron’s cuts agenda. ‘There is a context to London’s riots that can’t be ignored’, said a writer for the Guardian, and it is the ‘backdrop of brutal cuts and enforced austerity measures’. The ‘mass unrest’ is a protest against unhinged capitalism, apparently.

Anyone remember the old Kenny Rogers-First Edition tune: “Something’s Burning...and I think it’s London”

The Clash - Londons Burning - YouTube
 
#12
#12
Gibbs.


Everything, and I mean absolutely everything, has Mark Duggan carrying a pistol with almost all reports I've read saying it was loaded. The question was rather or not it was his bullet in the radio. That remains to be seen, but most initial reports have it as a police issue round. Regardless, his family organized a community effort and they decided to march on the police station to get "answers".

It was peaceful until a group of his gang showed up and, well, turned the whole thing to sh!t. A peaceful protest turned into a riot due to individuals that ran in Duggans circle (don't try to turn him into a martyr... the guy was a drug dealer at least and had been linked to numerous other crimes... hence the police targeting). These people turned on their own communities and used "income inequality" as justification to attack, burn and loot independent stores.
 
#13
#13
I've been thinking about the youth riots in England.

Obviously, the police shot an unarmed black man - fairly common here - and then tried to cover it up by shooting one of their own radios. This sparked a legitimate, and initially peaceful, protest march that turned violent when the police interfered again. I would say the first nights of riot was absolutely legitimate political violence. This little fact has been swept under the rug in the bourgeois history (as it always is).

Then the teenagers took to the streets to pick up as much swag as they could. In a way, this was simply a reenactment of what they see from the adults in their culture. MPs had fiddled their expenses, the bankers defraud the poor and pay themselves enormous sums for sending the economy into a depression, the Welfare Dads loot the public treasury with impunity, good English Victorians have been looting the lands of the "lesser breeds without the law" for a long, long, long time.

Retrograde and deeply reactionary figures like David Cameron will moralize, without socks, about order, morality, and family values. He comes from the stock of the Great Looters, wealth amassed on the backs of slaves and coolies - with a generous helping from the profits of war.

There will be retrograde figures among you who will deny this, but I think the teenagers on the street know it very well.


lololol

insert picture off a donkey and a clown.....
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#14
#14
I've been thinking about the youth riots in England.

Obviously, the police shot an unarmed black man - fairly common here - and then tried to cover it up by shooting one of their own radios. This sparked a legitimate, and initially peaceful, protest march that turned violent when the police interfered again.

:hi: Agree.
 
#19
#19
Yep.(are there Vol fans that aren't Fulmer fans at all?) You disagree with the first paragraph? Seems pretty spot on to me.

Amazing how all new posters to the politics forum fall on the pro fulmer and left wing wackjob scale. Coincidence I am sure.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#20
#20
Amazing how all new posters to the politics forum fall on the pro fulmer and left wing wackjob scale. Coincidence I am sure.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Why in the hell would a Vol fan not be a fan of Fulmer? And again, are you in disagreement with he first paragraph of the post? If so, what specifically?

Edit: To spell it out, no I don't wish Fulmer was still the coach, but he won a damn NC here, of course I'm a fan. Is that even a real question?
 
#21
#21
And again, are you in disagreement with he first paragraph of the post? If so, what specifically?

For starters it would appear Duggan may very well have been armed. A "converted" pistol (meaning some type that was not originally designed to fire actual ammo, like a starters pistol) was recovered at the scene. Early reports that Duggan had actually fired the weapon at police however seem to have been false.

I've not heard ANY reliable source support the idea that they (the police) then tried to "cover it up" by "shooting one of their own radios". Why bother? If he had a gun there is absolutely no requirement for him to actually discharge it at an officer to be considered a deadly threat. (Imagine having a gun pointed at you but not considering it a deadly threat until, you know, you've actually been shot) Not to mention the fact that, as has already happened pending absolute ballistic confirmation, the bullet in the radio would be easily traceable to a police weapon.
 
#22
#22
Gibbs.


Everything, and I mean absolutely everything, has Mark Duggan carrying a pistol with almost all reports I've read saying it was loaded. The question was rather or not it was his bullet in the radio. That remains to be seen, but most initial reports have it as a police issue round. Regardless, his family organized a community effort and they decided to march on the police station to get "answers".

It was peaceful until a group of his gang showed up and, well, turned the whole thing to sh!t. A peaceful protest turned into a riot due to individuals that ran in Duggans circle (don't try to turn him into a martyr... the guy was a drug dealer at least and had been linked to numerous other crimes... hence the police targeting). These people turned on their own communities and used "income inequality" as justification to attack, burn and loot independent stores.

Bullet was police issue. IPCC misled media regarding shooting (note, this is a MURDOCH publication):

Doubts emerge over Duggan shooting as London burns | UK news | The Guardian

Mark Duggan shooting in Tottenham: IPCC admits it may have misled journalists | Mail Online

No evidence he fired, in fact, no report the "gun" was even on his person:

BBC News - Mark Duggan death: 'No evidence' Tottenham man opened fire

In the bourgeois history of course the facts will be lost. That is the nature of bourgeois history. And what they want to cover-up is the fact that heavy-handed tactics (and somewhat cowardly police action) have killed a man, and then the police tried to cover it up in the resulting chaos by shooting their own radio.
 
#23
#23
For starters it would appear Duggan may very well have been armed. A "converted" pistol (meaning some type that was not originally designed to fire actual ammo, like a starters pistol) was recovered at the scene. Early reports that Duggan had actually fired the weapon at police however seem to have been false.

I've not heard ANY reliable source support the idea that they (the police) then tried to "cover it up" by "shooting one of their own radios". Why bother? If he had a gun there is absolutely no requirement for him to actually discharge it at an officer to be considered a deadly threat. (Imagine having a gun pointed at you but not considering it a deadly threat until, you know, you've actually been shot) Not to mention the fact that, as has already happened pending absolute ballistic confirmation, the bullet in the radio would be easily traceable to a police weapon.

Well, let's look at it like the police then.

They've already been caught in a big lie. What happens when a key witness is caught in a big lie?

Which line of questioning would you pursue if you were one of London's Finest?

Either they were incompetent beyond the pale (in which case they should be demoted off the gun carrying squad) or they tried to cover it up.

Has to be one scenario or the other.
 
#24
#24
You know, for a guy as hung up on this greater good to be acheived by humans mentality you sure do a bang-up job of rationalizing acts of random violence. Kudos.

These acts of vandalism were far from random, and I think you meant "excusing" rather than "rationalizing".

A window of opportunity presented itself when the police force surrendered its legitimacy for that period of time. Teenagers, blasted from birth by bourgeois messages, without access to Eton, with parents working graveyard shifts, and with adult "role models" like David Cameron whose wealth was generated by his great grandfather's war profits looting China and the distribution of opium....

Then what you have is a vignette which brilliantly captures the irrationality of bourgeois society.
 
#25
#25
utgibbs,

You certainly have a different take on the world. I am curious, in your flavor of ethics, are acts of injustice a valid reason to perform other acts of injustice? For example, do you condone the burning and looting of stores owned by Korean immigrants in LA back when the Rodney King incident occurred? It is the same type of thing, I think. Yes, it is absolutely true that in many cases the police behave badly and are not held accountable. However, does that make it acceptable for me to attack other civilians? rob them? vandalize them? Where do you draw the line?

You mention things that people's families did 100+ years ago. How far back in history can an injustice have occurred in order to be a legitimate reason to act unjustly now? Part of my family left Europe to escape religious persecution. Can I justify vandalizing catholic churches now? or synagogues, because, ya know, they are a religious body, too?

I am curious as to your take on these questions because I am failing to understand the ethical system behind your remarks.
 

VN Store



Back
Top