NIL and scholarship

[OrangeVolMan]

I’m not sure of all rules for NILs. Not sure anyone knows for sure. Can a player receive an NIL(s) and not be on scholarship? If you can, why give NICO (for example) a scholarship? Can we save a scholarship that way? Can a non scholarship player be treated the same as a scholarship player?
Lastly, why are we as donors/season ticket holders paying for scholarships and benefits for players that in some cases make more money than we do?

 

[stolitonic]

Sorry, apparently I replied to the wrong post.

Delete this if so desired.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I’m not sure of all rules for NILs. Not sure anyone knows for sure. Can a player receive an NIL(s) and not be on scholarship? If you can, why give NICO (for example) a scholarship? Can we save a scholarship that way? Can a non scholarship player be treated the same as a scholarship player?
Lastly, why are we as donors/season ticket holders paying for scholarships and benefits for players that in some cases make more money than we do?

Anyone can get NIL, even you or I. It's not provided by the school and cannot be provided by the school. It's just getting compensated for things like commercials, ads, your pictures, your autograph, whatever someone wants to pay you to do...... drive a Lambo for their dealership, for instance.

They get compensated better than you because they have talents and skills you don't. Are you upset because the CEO at your company makes more than you? Are you upset because the car mechanic or plumber or electrician or doctor makes more than you?

Welcome to the United States of America economic system where the market decided what people are paid.

 

[peaygolf]

Have the athletes sign a "Non-Compete Clause"

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Have the athletes sign a "Non-Compete Clause"

So you want to admit they're employees? If they're not, a "non compete clause" doesn't work.

 

[OrangeVolMan]

Anyone can get NIL, even you or I. It's not provided by the school and cannot be provided by the school. It's just getting compensated for things like commercials, ads, your pictures, your autograph, whatever someone wants to pay you to do...... drive a Lambo for their dealership, for instance.

They get compensated better than you because they have talents and skills you don't. Are you upset because the CEO at your company makes more than you? Are you upset because the car mechanic or plumber or electrician or doctor makes more than you?

Welcome to the United States of America economic system where the market decided what people are paid.

First who said I was upset? I asked a question(s). Second, you are comparing apples and oranges. I don’t pay a CEO anything. He/She gets a salary etc for a job. If you want to compare the two then athletes will have to be employees of UT.

 

[Preyed_On]

Lastly, why are we as donors/season ticket holders paying for scholarships and benefits for players that in some cases make more money than we do?

Because it’s D1 college football and people wanna win. You win with the best players, and if you don’t wanna pay, someone else will.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

First who said I was upset? I asked a question(s). Second, you are comparing apples and oranges. I don’t pay a CEO anything. He/She gets a salary etc for a job. If you want to compare the two then athletes will have to be employees of UT.

That's where it's headed, the players being declared employees of the schools, unionizing like pro athletes, and negotiating for a piece of the big TV money pie.

We're paying them NIL deals because we want a decent team and we have to pay what the market value is or they'll go elsewhere to play.

Basically, if you think about it, UT is using our emotional attachment to the Vols and the school legacy to get us to pay the good athletes good money so the school can make a ton of money. They also get us to pay a ton of money for tickets and lots of UT merchandise.

UT is the one making a killing off the work of these kids that we're paying for and off lots of orange and white merchandise. They're not dumb.

 

[peaygolf]

So you want to admit they're employees? If they're not, a "non compete clause" doesn't work.

Should have done my post in blue font

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Should have done my post in blue font

Sheldon moment. My bad.

 

[ru4real-really?]

you sign a contract that gives you money, of course you assume obligations of an employee! You be working for a living!

 

[hog88]

I’m not sure of all rules for NILs. Not sure anyone knows for sure. Can a player receive an NIL(s) and not be on scholarship? If you can, why give NICO (for example) a scholarship? Can we save a scholarship that way? Can a non scholarship player be treated the same as a scholarship player?
Lastly, why are we as donors/season ticket holders paying for scholarships and benefits for players that in some cases make more money than we do?

I think (and in no way sure) there are benefits scholarship players get that can't be given to walk-ons. Not exactly sure what those would be.

 

[LouderVol]

you sign a contract that gives you money, of course you assume obligations of an employee! You be working for a living!

Hopefully every single school is telling these kids about the tax man coming.

Scholarships arent typically taxed, or at least not taxed the same way. NIL? And for someone likely considered self employed and without a company to pay half of the income tax? Ooph

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Lastly, why are we as donors/season ticket holders paying for scholarships and benefits for players that in some cases make more money than we do?

Donors and season ticket holders have contributed to coaches making “more than we do” for years.

Why is it any different for the kids on the field?

 

[1world1love]

Donors and season ticket holders have contributed to coaches making “more than we do” for years.

Why is it any different for the kids on the field?

And more importantly, why single out athletes specifically? If I am on academic scholarship majoring in English Literature and I write an essay that gets published in Esquire, I can get paid for that and nobody blinks an eye. Nobody says I should be considered an employee of the university because I got paid to write an article for a magazine. But if I am a scholarship QB and have my picture taken drinking a can of soda and that picture is published in that magazine and I am paid for it, all of a sudden I am an employee of the university?

Hell, I was on academic scholarship and made a ton of money while I was in school doing all kinds of work. Why should athletes be treated differently?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

And more importantly, why single out athletes specifically? If I am on academic scholarship majoring in English Literature and I write an essay that gets published in Esquire, I can get paid for that and nobody blinks an eye. Nobody says I should be considered an employee of the university because I got paid to write an article for a magazine. But if I am a scholarship QB and have my picture taken drinking a can of soda and that picture is published in that magazine and I am paid for it, all of a sudden I am an employee of the university?

Hell, I was on academic scholarship and made a ton of money while I was in school doing all kinds of work. Why should athletes be treated differently?

Because the University is making money from the athlete's performance for the school...... a LOT of money, actually.

A kid who writes an article for Esquire isn't making money for the school. An athlete playing football or basketball is making a ton of money for the school and is placed on scholarship for that purpose.

If you're using someone's talents to make you money, aren't you their employer?

 

[Lawrence Wright]

And more importantly, why single out athletes specifically?

Because some fans like feeling as if they’re above the players/students/athletes they cheer for.

Not all…but some.

You can’t have these college kids making more money than the guy sitting in Section Z13.

 

[1world1love]

Because the University is making money from the athlete's performance for the school...... a LOT of money, actually.

A kid who writes an article for Esquire isn't making money for the school. An athlete playing football or basketball is making a ton of money for the school and is placed on scholarship for that purpose.

If you're using someone's talents to make you money, aren't you their employer?

Lots of scholarship students make money for universities. Most major research universities hold thousands of patents, many of which are based on the work of scholarship students. Biology, materials science, agriculture, computer science, etc. there are almost no discoveries that don’t involve scholarship (and non-scholarship) students.

It’s like that everywhere in the world and has been like that pretty much forever.

Do drama students bring in money? Music? Of course. And sometimes pretty significant sums.

There is nothing unique about student athletes in that regard.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Lots of scholarship students make money for universities. Most major research universities hold thousands of patents, many of which are based on the work of scholarship students. Biology, materials science, agriculture, computer science, etc. there are almost no discoveries that don’t involve scholarship (and non-scholarship) students.

It’s like that everywhere in the world and has been like that pretty much forever.

Do drama students bring in money? Music? Of course. And sometimes pretty significant sums.

There is nothing unique about student athletes in that regard.

The difference might be that the university doesn't recruit kids SPECIFICALLY to fund a multi-million dollar business like football and basketball.

They recruit research talent, often grad assistants, to help get grants, do profitable research, etc and those folks get paid (poorly, but paid) as employees, usually teaching low level classes. A renown professor who brings big money research can make big bucks but again, they are employees.

Name another area of the school where a true freshman can come in and make a significant contribution to one of the school's multi-million dollar enterprises? Schools are not out there recruiting many freshmen chemists or actors or musicians to immediately come in and "start" on the big money research projects. That's crazy.

 

[1world1love]

The difference might be that the university doesn't recruit kids SPECIFICALLY to fund a multi-million dollar business like football and basketball.

They recruit research talent, often grad assistants, to help get grants, do profitable research, etc and those folks get paid (poorly, but paid) as employees, usually teaching low level classes. A renown professor who brings big money research can make big bucks but again, they are employees.

Name another area of the school where a true freshman can come in and make a significant contribution to one of the school's multi-million dollar enterprises? Schools are not out there recruiting many freshmen chemists or actors or musicians to immediately come in and "start" on the big money research projects. That's crazy.

I am not sure exactly what you are arguing here. Regardless if a scholarship student makes $1 or $1,000,000 for a school, either they are all employees or none of them are.

I mostly agree with all of the points that you have made in this thread, but the reality remains that you cannot specifically make athletes employees based on some arbitrary criteria that doesn't apply to other students. If you accept that they are professionals, then you open up many other cans of worms, including the classification of graduate students.

It's just not that easy.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I am not sure exactly what you are arguing here. Regardless if a scholarship student makes $1 or $1,000,000 for a school, either they are all employees or none of them are.

I mostly agree with all of the points that you have made in this thread, but the reality remains that you cannot specifically make athletes employees based on some arbitrary criteria that doesn't apply to other students. If you accept that they are professionals, then you open up many other cans of worms, including the classification of graduate students.

It's just not that easy.

Most students aren't at the school participating in a multi-million dollar business the university is running nor are they specifically recruited to the school to help that business. A freshman on a scholarship for chemistry isn't helping make the school a massive TV deal. Most undergrad academic scholarship kids don't help the school make any money or certainly not very much money at all.

As I said, grad assistants and Ph.D. candidates are usually paid (peanuts) for teaching. They are actually employees of the school while attending school. I totally agree research labs can make big money for the school and most of those working are either employees outright and not students or grad students getting paid for teaching. Some research may be part of a class project or thesis that gives school credit but that too is different from an athlete that isn't graded on "Football 101."

Athletes are different. They are recruited, essentially hired, for nothing educational, nothing really related to academics, but to support the huge business of college football and basketball.

If academic scholarship kids are employees of the school, the return on investment in those kids would make them unacceptable. Very few give back to the school and they certainly don't provide much to the school in the way of generating revenue.

Athletes generate revenue for the school. It's a big difference.

 

[GAVol]

The difference might be that the university doesn't recruit kids SPECIFICALLY to fund a multi-million dollar business like football and basketball.

They recruit research talent, often grad assistants, to help get grants, do profitable research, etc and those folks get paid (poorly, but paid) as employees, usually teaching low level classes. A renown professor who brings big money research can make big bucks but again, they are employees.

Name another area of the school where a true freshman can come in and make a significant contribution to one of the school's multi-million dollar enterprises? Schools are not out there recruiting many freshmen chemists or actors or musicians to immediately come in and "start" on the big money research projects. That's crazy.

That’s it in a nutshell. And for 40 years as rights fees have escalated exponentially, the schools basically used NCAA rules to use cheap labor to rake in millions and nobody seemed to care. I get that NIL and the transfer portal have upset the Apple cart, but the whole system has needed an overhaul for years. I can’t be mad that players have the right to make a buck while the schools are getting huge checks every year based on their efforts.