chuckiepoo
Aiken born; Knoxpatch six months later
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Non-Lady Vol Basketball News 2023-24
- Thread starter VolBall09
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It is always that question of statistics or value to team. For me Clark should be NPOY for her consistent excellence. Every time they take the court the opponents are keying on her and she still has a great all around game. There is certainly talent on her team but there is no 1-2 punch. She is option 1A and 1B. Boston is a great player but she is surrounded by a lot of talent so opponents can’t just scheme for her. I will say Boston plays tougher opponents.
What say ye for Boston over Clark?
Poultrygeist
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Ummm what? Boston consistently sees a double and triple team in the paint and still comes away with a double double. I really like Clark and nothing against her but to me NPOY is about the player who consistently elevates their team to Elite play and she doesn’t do that. Boston is having a historical season along the lines of thee Sylvia Fowles! Iowa is a fringe top 25 team and I don’t buy the argument of “she doesn’t have help” when Czinano is a career 60% FG shooter and she’s surrounded with 40% 3Pt shooters in Warnock, Marshall, and Martin. She also plays 35 mpg almost 10 more minutes than Aliyah plays yet Boston shoots better percentages from field and 3Pt range as well as impact the game defensively in which Caitlin doesn’t.
Rooster1
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Clark is a volume shooter, shooting % has been in the 30's most of the season. She has great assist numbers to compliment her ppg, but is not considered even average on the defensive side.
Boston is a low volume shooter but at a much higher clip, usually around 55%. She is an elite scorer. Boston is also in play for defensive POY so her defense and rebounding are also elite.
NeedOrange
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Volfan2012
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Going to be interesting how the talking heads and voters pick player of the year. They went with Bueckers last season and her stats that season are not even close to Clark's in four key categories. She won it averaging 20 ppg and 5.8 assists 4.9 rebounds. Clark is at 27.2 ppg, 8.2 asst, and 8.2 rebounds and her overall field goal percentage is 46 percent. If she can get that 30 percent three point shooting closer to her freshman level of 40 percent then it is at least going to be an interesting vote. Boston definitely deserves the award as well as she is the also the key player on her team. I think it all depends on how it plays out from here. +I still think Boston is the favorite mainly because of Clark's poor three point shooting it gets a lot closer if she can up that to say 36 percent.
LV renaissance
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I think @VolBall09 has pointed out the biggest difference between Clark and Boston. Both of them are excellent offensive threats that you can build your team around, but Boston is doing double duty as the defensive anchor for the best defensive team in the country. She's being considered for both NPOY and DPOY. Her ability to play both sides of the court is why I think she should get the award.
Regarding the Clark/Bueckers debate, there was probably a lot of subjective criteria as well as quantitative. She probably had the leg up because of the hype machine (#1 recruit, #1 team, it's UConn, etc.), but I don't think there's any denying she also had a fantastic season. Either of them would have been deserving last year IMO.
Regarding the Clark/Bueckers debate, there was probably a lot of subjective criteria as well as quantitative. She probably had the leg up because of the hype machine (#1 recruit, #1 team, it's UConn, etc.), but I don't think there's any denying she also had a fantastic season. Either of them would have been deserving last year IMO.
Terrells Bay88
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It appears that UConn has averaged 3 injured players per game from their top 9 players entering the season (and from top 10 roster positions once injuries piled up). Journalists and commentators forget that Griffin has not played a game and was likely going to be the 2nd player off of the bench. Other pundits think other teams losing a single starter is equivalent to UConn missing Bueckers. Well, is that starter a POY? No. Not the same, not even close. Notice that all three losses to currently ranked teams other than SC had 4 injuries to UConn players. Most teams face 1-2 injuries, sometimes from their 7-8 player rotation. Missing 3-4 is atypical, and affects even top-tier teams like Oregon and UConn.
Arkansas -- Missing Griffin, and Fudd played injured. Call it 1.5 injured
Minnesota -- Missing Griffin, and Fudd played injured. So, 1.5 injured.
USF --- Missing Griffin, and Fudd played injured. So, 1.5 injured.
S. Carolina -- Missing Griffith, and Fudd played injured. 1.5 injured.
Seton Hall -- Missing Griffith and missing Fudd. Up to 2 injured.
Notre Dame -- Missing Griffith and Fudd. 2 injured.
GA Tech -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Fudd, and Muhl. 4 injured.
UCLA -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Fudd, and Muhl. 4 injured.
L'ville -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Fudd, and Muhl. 4 injured.
Creighton -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers and Fudd. 3 injured.
Butler -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers and Fudd. 3 injured.
Xavier -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers and Fudd. 3 injured.
Oregon -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Williams, and Fudd. 4 injured.
Seton Hall -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Williams, and Fudd. 4 injured.
St. John's -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Williams, and Fudd. 4 injured.
DePaul -- Missing Griffith and, POY Bueckers. 2 injured.
Providence -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, and Juhasz. 3 injured.
Creighton -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, and Juhasz. 3 injured.
Tennessee -- Missing Griffin, POY Bueckers, and Ducharme. 3 injured.
Arkansas -- Missing Griffin, and Fudd played injured. Call it 1.5 injured
Minnesota -- Missing Griffin, and Fudd played injured. So, 1.5 injured.
USF --- Missing Griffin, and Fudd played injured. So, 1.5 injured.
S. Carolina -- Missing Griffith, and Fudd played injured. 1.5 injured.
Seton Hall -- Missing Griffith and missing Fudd. Up to 2 injured.
Notre Dame -- Missing Griffith and Fudd. 2 injured.
GA Tech -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Fudd, and Muhl. 4 injured.
UCLA -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Fudd, and Muhl. 4 injured.
L'ville -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Fudd, and Muhl. 4 injured.
Creighton -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers and Fudd. 3 injured.
Butler -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers and Fudd. 3 injured.
Xavier -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers and Fudd. 3 injured.
Oregon -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Williams, and Fudd. 4 injured.
Seton Hall -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Williams, and Fudd. 4 injured.
St. John's -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, Williams, and Fudd. 4 injured.
DePaul -- Missing Griffith and, POY Bueckers. 2 injured.
Providence -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, and Juhasz. 3 injured.
Creighton -- Missing Griffith, POY Bueckers, and Juhasz. 3 injured.
Tennessee -- Missing Griffin, POY Bueckers, and Ducharme. 3 injured.
Fudd wasnt injured when she was raining 3s on So Florida, but was injured vs. SC? I think her blowing defensive assignments had more to do with her limited PT than any injury. Even Geno said that.
UConn is fortunate that they had a wealth of talent on the bench, even if they were missing players. Let's be real...they still out-talented Ga Tech even with the missing players, and had a chance to beat Louisville. They weren't left with nothing in those games.
Oregon is really the only game where losing starter Williams tipped the talent scale the other way.
creekdipper
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I've never understood the "losing the POY" aspect when "the rest" include a loaded roster that, based upon talent alone, should be a Final Four team. Iowa loses Clark, they're in serious trouble. Even with her firing on all cylinders, they're not a Top 10 team. Most teams are lucky to have one or perhaps two outstanding players. SC, CONN, and Stanford each have several AA-caliber players.
When you have so many options that a freshman who was languishing on the bench can come in and lead the team in scoring, you really have no room to complain unless your entire starting lineup is out. CONN should have been an elite team if Bueckers had never stepped foot on campus.
When you have so many options that a freshman who was languishing on the bench can come in and lead the team in scoring, you really have no room to complain unless your entire starting lineup is out. CONN should have been an elite team if Bueckers had never stepped foot on campus.
creekdipper
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I can not find the article now but I think it said Clark had had 10 triple doubles so far this year and was the first player to do that in 20 years. Please don’t think I’m being disingenuous if I don’t have that exactly right but for sure she has done something for the first time in 20 years. Also, 55% is great but shouldn’t a post player have a higher made percentage than a guard? Comparing made % doesn’t seem like an apples to apples comparison.
Retroactively, it turned out Fudd was sufficiently "hurt" or then realized was essentially "injured". True, she had one very good shooting game vs. USF, but was not moving around well in all three games. Yes, it is nice to have depth, but when any team has 1-2 significant players hurt or injured, those fans bemoan their team's situation especially versus tougher foes. It is rare to see 3-4 "out" simultaneously.
creekdipper
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I got the impression that posters are saying that she's not up to speed yet. You don't miss that much time and then immediately pick up where you left off. That's the reason her minutes were being managed. It's one of the major reasons for spring training/preseason practices/exhibition games & scrimmages, etc. Conditioning takes time, and recovering muscles and ligaments get sore more easily than ones that have never been injured. That's different from playing with a damaged body that needs repair.
Clark has 5 triple doubles. Ionescu is the career leader with 8. She will eclipse Sabrina by her junior year. It's a great achievement, but I don't think her triple doubles necessarily result in team wins.
Boston isn't just taking shots under the basket. She takes a lot of midranges, plus she'll take a couple of threes a game as well.
They had lost more than just a "mere" defending POY for the GA Tech loss and other losses. They were missing 4. UConn coaching staff typically does not start frosh, even great frosh. For instance, Taurasi only started 14 of 31 games. Moore had not started the first 8 games as I recall, then Kalana Greene blew out her knee and Maya started the rest of the season doing quite well. You're wrong on a team has to lose everyone starting to be undermanned. Notre Dame's NC year they lost three to ACL but not one was a starter, but they lost all of their worthwhile backups, thus no depth, ND even got hammered by L'ville by about 30 points reg season at height of their injuries. You're saying they shouldn't have complained and shouldn't have lost to a lesser top-tier team by 30? That is not logical. Back to frosh on UConn team in this season. Auriemma and Dailey had 3 seniors of which two were AP AA HM, and a sophomore Edwards that had a superb frosh year, and a frosh that was the first time frosh POY. So who should they have sat for a frosh #1 recruit or frosh #5, when they historically work great frosh into starting lineup slowly? By the way, Kalena Mosqueda-Lewis, once of the greatest pure shooters in WCBB looking at the many superb three-shooters that had 275-300 made threes' 3FG%, and was #1 high school recruit coming in, she just started 1 out of 38 games in a year UConn was not a stacked roster.
I'm curious what is your definition of "elite"? It sounds like "top-tier" by my reckoning, which is typically in modern WCBB the top 6-9 teams. Elite teams to me are like UConn 2009 and 2010, Baylor 2012 and 2013, or UConn 2014-2016. The Tenn three-peat would also be elite, despite that odd 10-loss year season but still they snagged the NC. This year there is one elite team, SC. Tell me, what would SC be achieving if SC lost Boston, the probable POY this season? They've had some closer games with all their deep roster all healthy. They lose Boston, or a Cooke/ Henderson, and some of their excellent backups like Amihere or Beal, and one of the frosh-sophs (which they have in Rivers I think) for mid-to-long stretches or the season, you state they should still be an "elite" team by your definition losing a POY, a starter, a top backup, and a top recruit? I guess we're going to agree to disagree.
What if Tenn lost Horston, Rae (which they did), and eventually Green (which unfortunately occurred), and for some short stretches for Dye or Puckett? Would you still demand they be a top-tier team, given Tenn fans largely believed when they had #1-seed in first NCAAW Reveal and way up in the polls they were a top-tier team and looked it by their great record, if they absorbed 2-3 more significant injuries?
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