Obama Will Bankrupt the Coal Industry

#1
MG1968

MG1968

That’s No Moon…
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#1
Hidden Audio: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Industry | NewsBusters.org

Quoth the Messiah:

Let me sort of describe my overall policy.

What I've said is that we would put a cap and trade system in place that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else's out there.

I was the first to call for a 100% auction on the cap and trade system, which means that every unit of carbon or greenhouse gases emitted would be charged to the polluter. That will create a market in which whatever technologies are out there that are being presented, whatever power plants that are being built, that they would have to meet the rigors of that market and the ratcheted down caps that are being placed, imposed every year.

So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted.

That will also generate billions of dollars that we can invest in solar, wind, biodiesel and other alternative energy approaches.

The only thing I've said with respect to coal, I haven't been some coal booster. What I have said is that for us to take coal off the table as a (sic) ideological matter as opposed to saying if technology allows us to use coal in a clean way, we should pursue it.

So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can.
It's just that it will bankrupt them.
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Of course, he won't be challenged on this.
 
#2
#2
I actually don't think that either man's plan is all that different on this. They both favor cap and trade - which will cost companies to emit CO2. Coal is the one of the worst with regard to energy density to CO2. So, unless companies include capture and sequestration inside of a cap and trade system, it will cost a lot to run a coal plant.

Naturally, that will provide an impetus for increased investment in renewable energy and low carbon-impact energy sources to secure those "credits." I think that it is a stretch to say that it will bankrupt companies to operate coal plants...but it will become more expensive than it is now.
 
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#3
Why anyone would be surprised by this is beyond me. Of course, there is no way Obama, or anyone else for that matter, could bankrupt a coal plant by imposing a cap-and-trade tax. Those companies will simply adjust the cost consumers pay for their product to compensate for the increased cost of production. All it's going to do is make it more costly for us to keep the lights on at our houses. Add to that the higher taxes he has promised and you've got yourself one great sounding economic policy.
 
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He made these comments in January. He didn't say he was out to bankrupt the induistry -- he said certain types of new plants would not be cost-effective because of having to buy the credits necessary for the pollution. Making this out to be some sort of startling message or news is the last gasp of a dying campaign.
 
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lawgator1 said:
He made these comments in January. He didn't say he was out to bankrupt the induistry -- he said certain types of new plants would not be cost-effective because of having to buy the credits necessary for the pollution. Making this out to be some sort of startling message or news is the last gasp of a dying campaign.
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It does reveal that he is not in favor of increasing coal usage. That is completely relevant and somewhat contradictory to wishy washy statements he's made during the campaign.
 
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volinbham said:
It does reveal that he is not in favor of increasing coal usage. That is completely relevant and somewhat contradictory to wishy washy statements he's made during the campaign.
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Truth. However most Libs are to blind to see it.
 
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LG what do you make of the taxes for people who make what 150 or 120,000 instead of 250. any comments on this?
 
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volinbham said:
It does reveal that he is not in favor of increasing coal usage. That is completely relevant and somewhat contradictory to wishy washy statements he's made during the campaign.
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Ok. Assume that's accurate. So what? Seems to me that the be scared of him message just isn't resonating at this late date.



Vol Mania 21 said:
LG what do you make of the taxes for people who make what 150 or 120,000 instead of 250. any comments on this?
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My understanding is that if you make less than 250 k, then you will not see a tax increase. If you make less than 200 k, then you will see a tax decrease, varying depending on where you are in that scale. So, if you make between 200 and 250, your taxes stay the same.

Two points worth noting. First, the tax increase for those over 250 k is just a return to the pre-Bush tax cuts. It isn't anything more than the rate paid during the Clinton administration.

Second, the rate increase is on the amount over that 250 k. In other words, it isn't as though once you hit 250 k then everything you make has a higher rate. You would still pay the same rate on the first 250k as everyone else. The higher rate applies only to the amount over 250 k.

My personal assessment is that no one should be getting a tax cut right now and that we should not be giving tax incentives to the oil industry and we should not be giving all these little tax breaks that had to go into the bailout bill to get enough votes to pass it. I just think that the solution is to keep revenues where they are and look for ways to cut spending.

Now, rolling back the Bush tax cuts on top of that has some merit to me, and if you did not then take that money and create tax cuts to the middle class then Obama could avoid the whole redistribution of wealth argument. But I can see why he is proposing it so as to get some votes. Just like McCain proposes tax cuts for his bread and butter base, the small business owners. Just politics.
 
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#12
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I was just mentioning how Biden said that anyone who made less than 150k a year wouldn't see a tax increase, and then another dem said it was 120k.
 
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lawgator1 said:
Ok. Assume that's accurate. So what? Seems to me that the be scared of him message just isn't resonating at this late date.
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Whether it resonates or not we keep getting these glimpses of what he really believes - not just what he's saying on the campaign stump. I wonder how long before his supporters realize what they've done. I can pretty much guarantee that he is going to move things much more to the left than he is portraying. We see the leaks and cracks already. When he's candid, we see his real views.
 
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here's a que. say Obama wins, do you think he'll be looked at as the worst pres. of all time?
 
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i just think it's going to be bad, if he wins i'll give him a chance, but i won't hold my breath
 
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Vol Mania 21 said:
here's a que. say Obama wins, do you think he'll be looked at as the worst pres. of all time?
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I think it depends on what happens in the next four years and how he deals with it. Odds are decent that the economy, over the course of the next four years, will be improving at the end of that period. But who knows what foreign policy issues await?
 
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TennTradition said:
I actually don't think that either man's plan is all that different on this. They both favor cap and trade - which will cost companies to emit CO2. Coal is the one of the worst with regard to energy density to CO2. So, unless companies include capture and sequestration inside of a cap and trade system, it will cost a lot to run a coal plant.

Naturally, that will provide an impetus for increased investment in renewable energy and low carbon-impact energy sources to secure those "credits." I think that it is a stretch to say that it will bankrupt companies to operate coal plants...but it will become more expensive than it is now.
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the coal companies will pass the tax on to us. when will you libs understand that companais pass all taxes and expenses on to us. we get over 50% of power from coal and if he taxes the coal companies, our bills will sky rocket. this is really scary.
 
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I don't think he will - the country is pretty divided now and much of what Obama espouses (economic, social justice, government solutions) are "clung to" by many in this country. Regardless of outcomes, I would suspect these folks would chalk any failings up to other things just as the remaining Bush hold-outs do.

Personally, Carter still takes this prize (of presidents in my life time).
 
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volinbham said:
I don't think he will - the country is pretty divided now and much of what Obama espouses (economic, social justice, government solutions) are "clung to" by many in this country. Regardless of outcomes, I would suspect these folks would chalk any failings up to other things just as the remaining Bush hold-outs do.

Personally, Carter still takes this prize (of presidents in my life time).
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with a pelosi and reid controlled house and congress. he'll get anything he wants passed. whether America agrees or not.
 
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lawgator1 said:
I think it depends on what happens in the next four years and how he deals with it. Odds are decent that the economy, over the course of the next four years, will be improving at the end of that period. But who knows what foreign policy issues await?
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Let's take a look at worst case scenarios and think long and hard about how BHO would respond (in no particular order):

China invades Taiwan

North Korea invades South Korea

The feud between Pakistan and India escalates into outright war

Russia makes good on their 100% guarantee to invade Poland

Iran launches attack against Israel


So let 'em invade Georgia. It's right next to them.
Democratic Congressman Jerry Nadler
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therealUT said:
Let's take a look at worst case scenarios and think long and hard about how BHO would respond (in no particular order):

China invades Taiwan

Very unlikely. But if so I think he does what Bush would have done in the end, which is sanctions out the wazoo. No way would Bush (or any responsible president) go to war with China over Taiwan.

North Korea invades South Korea

Even more unlikely. But if that happened it would presumably be over the tripo wire we have in place and we would be at war.


The feud between Pakistan and India escalates into outright war

I think this could happen. Given their nuclear capabilities and the 8 minute lead times they each have to use them, what the U.S. thinks won't matter because one of them will have its government HQs turned into a big piece of melted glass before anyone from the outside can react.



Russia makes good on their 100% guarantee to invade Poland


Not going to happen.

Iran launches attack against Israel

Obama or McCain would both follow the advice of their generals, which would be to take up defensive tactics for Israel, but not affirmatively attack Iran (unless and until they hit us or our troops over there, giving us the political cover to go at them territorially).
Click to expand...


See bolded responses.
 
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lawgator1 said:
See bolded responses.
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I saw the responses and I made note of how you dodged most of the scenarios with, "this won't happen." They are worst case scenarios and obviously you are conceding that BHO would be show little to know strength in those situations.

As to your presumption about McCain and BHO approaching an attack by Iran on Israel in the same measure, defensively, you are most certainly wrong.
 
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volinbham said:
It does reveal that he is not in favor of increasing coal usage. That is completely relevant and somewhat contradictory to wishy washy statements he's made during the campaign.
Click to expand...

I don't think that it reflects any sort of change in opinion. His point all along is you don't burn coal unless it is "clean." Perhaps, though, it is an admission that clean coal may be a pipe dream with regard to carbon capture and sequestration...the money is just not being invested right now...even at a federal level...
 
#25
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Obama to the coal industry:

obamafinger.jpg
 
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