OK CPF bashers

[jakez4ut]

I see complacency.

that i would agree with...that's why it took such a bad season in 05 to get some changes made....

 

[JasonCajun]

Then why were they the Favorites in the Cotton Bowl? Before this season Reggie Mcniel was the media darling and was going to be a dark horse for the Heisman. They too were down this year but last year they were the Cotton Bolw favorites. That is a fact.

Being favored over someone does not make one a big time program. I am sure Bowling Green is favored on some people on their schedule, but that doesn't make them big time. Big time is a top 10 college football program, and Texas A&M hasn't been that for a long time.

 

[VolBeef88]

that i would agree with...that's why it took such a bad season in 05 to get some changes made....

I would not call it complacency nor bewilderment. Irritation is more like it. Look guys. I do hold CPF accountable and he has taken respnsibility for everything. He has made major staff changes and publicly accepted responsibility and even went so far as to apologize to fans. I have never heard of another coach going that far. Was he too loyal to his staff? I would say yes. But he has made the changes necessary and I think he not only deserves time to fix it but he has earned time to fix it. If he does not then he should be replaced. But as an alum and UT fan I will give him time and the respect to fix problems.

 

[hatvol96]

I would not call it complacency nor bewilderment. Irritation is more like it. Look guys. I do hold CPF accountable and he has taken respnsibility for everything. He has made major staff changes and publicly accepted responsibility and even went so far as to apologize to fans. I have never heard of another coach going that far. Was he too loyal to his staff? I would say yes. But he has made the changes necessary and I think he not only deserves time to fix it but he has earned time to fix it. If he does not then he should be replaced. But as an alum and UT fan I will give him time and the respect to fix problems.

Bob Knight gave his salary back to Texas Tech two years ago. He said he hadn't earned it.

 

[VolBeef88]

Being favored over someone does not make one a big time program. I am sure Bowling Green is favored on some people on their schedule, but that doesn't make them big time. Big time is a top 10 college football program, and Texas A&M hasn't been that for a long time.

yeah, Bowling Green is at the same level as ATM. Gimme a break! If you don't think that ATM is a big time program then I am done discussing football with you becuase you are way off and don't know enough to waste type time.

 

[VolBeef88]

Bob Knight gave his salary back to Texas Tech two years ago. He said he hadn't earned it.

I did not know that, so thanks. But that does not take away the FACT that CPF has gone above and beyond what almost every other coach does.

 

[jakez4ut]

i think you're right Volbeef, but the complacency comment, i think does hold some water. Most of us here do agree that there has been a slide in this program starting in 2000, came out a little more in 2002, and there were still things in 03 that made you wonder. But in each case, there was a 8,9,10 win season, bowl appearance, or recent SEC CG appearance to "hide" behind. how bad could it be right? Well, i think that's were the complacency came in....the old if it ain't broke, don't fix it mentality, and on the surface, based on w/l record, bowls etc, the arguement was easily made that it wasn't broke....well, then you have a year like this one, and all those things we've been wondering about for a few years come to fruition, and there's nothing to "hide" behind. No bowl. No top 25 ranking. No winning reocrd. It was finally broke, time to fix it.

that's more or less what i think we're getting at. Go back and read my posts, i think you and i are more on the same paget than you might think...i don't think he should be fired yet either.

 

[OldVol]

Not arguing your point, only interjecting a comment. During all the Green Bay games I watched on TV while Lombardi was there, they very seldom put the camera on him so I don't know about then. However, I saw a game live in Atlanta (preseason) when he was coaching the Redskins. I made it a point to keep my binoculars on him as much as possible. The man was almost rabid that day. One instance in particular Gerry Smith caught a sideline pass and ran out of bounds instead of turning it upfield and I was actually afraid for Smith's life. I thought Lombardi was going to kill him. He ripped into him for at least 5 minutes waving his arms, ranting and pointing downfield. But maybe he was just having a bad day that day. I remember that the 'Skins won by a pretty hefty margin.

Back in Lombardi's day there was very little sideline cut aways. I'll yield to you, since you saw him in person. The only times I ever saw him on the sidelines was on TV. So, those times that I recollect he was very subdued in his mannerisms. I never saw him grab a player's face mask, or slap a player on the hat.

 

[hatvol96]

I did not know that, so thanks. But that does not take away the FACT that CPF has gone above and beyond what almost every other coach does.

I would agree. While my personal distaste for Fulmer is a well known fact on this board, I do commend him for taking responsibility for the wretched '05 season. A little bit late, but admirable nonetheless.

 

[volinbham]

Being favored over someone does not make one a big time program. I am sure Bowling Green is favored on some people on their schedule, but that doesn't make them big time. Big time is a top 10 college football program, and Texas A&M hasn't been that for a long time.

But they were favored over the team that won the SEC East and had only one loss in the SEC; with 2 losses to an arguable national champion. Not quite the same as BG being favored over Miami (OH).

 

[smokedog#3]

i have to disagree beef, fulmer is a hard worker no dought, but to say he goes above and beyond is alittle extreme. he does alot but i would say other coaches meyer, richt, tubberville etc do the exact same.

 

[volinbham]

I see complacency.

Probably some complacency over the last few years - not excusing it but this is a pretty natural phenomenon in human behavior.

As I've stated before, I also believe he was distracted by the Gallion stuff over the last 2 years or so. That is pretty much gone so he can get back to addressing the complacency issues.

I think the ranking of "new" coaches that was posted a couple of weeks ago tells the real story. Once you got past Spurrier and Weiss, maybe Miles and Meyer; this list was a bunch of nobodies with mediocre records. I continue to believe that Fulmer has been and can be one of the top coaches in the country. Obviously, more performances like this year will call that into question.

 

[jakez4ut]

As I've stated before, I also believe he was distracted by the Gallion stuff over the last 2 years or so. That is pretty much gone so he can get back to addressing the complacency issues.

another good point....not that that whole mess is behind him for the most part, things can be re-focused a bit....goot point.

 

[wilburnVol]

I would not call it complacency nor bewilderment. Irritation is more like it. Look guys. I do hold CPF accountable and he has taken respnsibility for everything. He has made major staff changes and publicly accepted responsibility and even went so far as to apologize to fans. I have never heard of another coach going that far. Was he too loyal to his staff? I would say yes. But he has made the changes necessary and I think he not only deserves time to fix it but he has earned time to fix it. If he does not then he should be replaced. But as an alum and UT fan I will give him time and the respect to fix problems.

Agreed. One year, then boot his phat butt. What must he do? According to OldVol, he should win the SEC. OK, that works for me. :dance:

 

[wncvolfan]

Back in Lombardi's day there was very little sideline cut aways. I'll yield to you, since you saw him in person. The only times I ever saw him on the sidelines was on TV. So, those times that I recollect he was very subdued in his mannerisms. I never saw him grab a player's face mask, or slap a player on the hat.

Don't yield on my comment. I only saw him in person once. I read Jerry Kramer's book and he said Lombardi was pretty rough to play for but no mention of any animation on the sidelines. I just assumed maybe that I had caught him on a real bad day. Just wanted to tell you about that one game. For all I know, he might have been a saint most of the time although another poster said he was like I saw him all the time. What I offered doesn't add anything to the real debate on this thread. Maybe I should have saved it. Please continue debating CPF's future and pardon my interruption.

 

[VolBeef88]

i think you're right Volbeef, but the complacency comment, i think does hold some water. Most of us here do agree that there has been a slide in this program starting in 2000, came out a little more in 2002, and there were still things in 03 that made you wonder. But in each case, there was a 8,9,10 win season, bowl appearance, or recent SEC CG appearance to "hide" behind. how bad could it be right? Well, i think that's were the complacency came in....the old if it ain't broke, don't fix it mentality, and on the surface, based on w/l record, bowls etc, the arguement was easily made that it wasn't broke....well, then you have a year like this one, and all those things we've been wondering about for a few years come to fruition, and there's nothing to "hide" behind. No bowl. No top 25 ranking. No winning reocrd. It was finally broke, time to fix it.

that's more or less what i think we're getting at. Go back and read my posts, i think you and i are more on the same paget than you might think...i don't think he should be fired yet either.

I could agree about the complacency part with coaching staff but not performance. I refuse to believe that CPF did not want more out of the team or that he lost his fire. I think that he was a little too loyal to staff. And if that is the worst a coach does then that aint so bad.

 

[VolBeef88]

Back in Lombardi's day there was very little sideline cut aways. I'll yield to you, since you saw him in person. The only times I ever saw him on the sidelines was on TV. So, those times that I recollect he was very subdued in his mannerisms. I never saw him grab a player's face mask, or slap a player on the hat.

Your right about the cut away. But NFL films are very good entertainment. If you have ESPN classics they show some of the old stuff with cut aways or maybe it was a second camera. But believe me, he was far from subdued.

 

[CSpindizzy]

how about in 2004 against the Gators with our kicker? remember? When he missed the FG what happened? CPF told the kid calm down and get your act together becuase he was going to win the game for us. Wilhoit has said that when CPF told him that ALL the pressure was relieved and he was calm when he went out to win the game. So it all depends on the player.

As long as we're strolling down memory lane....what about the fumbles at crucial times? Or false starts? Or botched ST plays? I seem to remember these recurring and getting worse. I guess "get your act together" and "calm down" doesn't work for those.

 

[CSpindizzy]

If he was bothered or distracted by the lawsuits and media, he should have stepped up and distanced himself from the team or separated himself in the aspect that this distraction was hurting his team. He has a staff that could take over (well minus the OC side of things). Staying on point while being distracted costs games, injuries, etc.

 

[VolBeef88]

If he was bothered or distracted by the lawsuits and media, he should have stepped up and distanced himself from the team or separated himself in the aspect that this distraction was hurting his team. He has a staff that could take over (well minus the OC side of things). Staying on point while being distracted costs games, injuries, etc.

Your right Dizzy. He is the worst coach in the HISTORY of college football. I can't believe we have ever won any games with him as HC. We lucked out with our SEC Championships and our National Championship. I mean, heck every HC in the nation gets those. Especially in the SEC. I mean look how many more NC that Spurrier has and Richt and Tuberville.

 

[JasonCajun]

yeah, Bowling Green is at the same level as ATM. Gimme a break! If you don't think that ATM is a big time program then I am done discussing football with you becuase you are way off and don't know enough to waste type time.

You fail to see my point. :banghead: The point is that they are not a big time program just because they are favored over us. If South Carolina was favored over us next year, would that make them a big time program? Big time programs are programs that win league championships and/or finish in the top 10 on a regular basis. Your definition of a big time program and my definition are two different things, apparently. Thanks for the personal attack on my knowledge of football.

 

[JasonCajun]

But they were favored over the team that won the SEC East and had only one loss in the SEC; with 2 losses to an arguable national champion. Not quite the same as BG being favored over Miami (OH).

Can you honestly say that Texas A&M is a top ten program? That to me is the definition of a big time program. While I loved the plastering that we gave Texas A&M, I don't equate beating them in the Cotton Bowl to beating a top tier team in a BCS bowl.

 

[jakez4ut]

Can you honestly say that Texas A&M is a top ten program? That to me is the definition of a big time program. While I loved the plastering that we gave Texas A&M, I don't equate beating them in the Cotton Bowl to beating a top tier team in a BCS bowl.

i think what they are getting at is Tx A&M is a "name" school, plenty of recognition and tradition...not like playing a WAC school or something....

cause i can't call Tx a&m a top 10 program either....

 

[VolBeef88]

You fail to see my point. :banghead: The point is that they are not a big time program just because they are favored over us. If South Carolina was favored over us next year, would that make them a big time program? Big time programs are programs that win league championships and/or finish in the top 10 on a regular basis. Your definition of a big time program and my definition are two different things, apparently. Thanks for the personal attack on my knowledge of football.

If you check you will see that ATM has won the Big 12. Many argue that they have one of if not the best fan base in the country and are loaded with history. They were able to hire away a coach from alabama (but I guess bamma is not a big time program either). There stadium is considered by many to be the toughest place to play in the nation and they have won national titles. I guess until this year Notre Dame was not a big time program either or Penn State! And utill a few years ago I guess the Sooners were not a big time program and you can add USC to that list as well. I wonder when Nebraska will be a big time program again?

 

[JasonCajun]

If you check you will see that ATM has won the Big 12. Many argue that they have one of if not the best fan base in the country and are loaded with history. They were able to hire away a coach from alabama (but I guess bamma is not a big time program either). There stadium is considered by many to be the toughest place to play in the nation and they have won national titles. I guess until this year Notre Dame was not a big time program either or Penn State! And utill a few years ago I guess the Sooners were not a big time program and you can add USC to that list as well. I wonder when Nebraska will be a big time program again?

I don't really care about what happened 30 years ago or even 10 years ago in the definition of a big time program. USC, Texas, Oklahoma weren't big time 10 years ago. Alabama hasn't been for over 10 years but are getting back there it looks like. Notre Dame wasn't in 2004 and under Davies, but Weiss has them back. Joe Pa was in a slump at Penn State and they were forgettable the last few years until this year. Nebraska was big time 10 years ago and aren't now.

Francioni (sp?) was looking to escape from Alabama with the sanctions and all the other stuff going on. You know that as well as I, and he was looking for the first big school that would take him.

Point is, Texas A&M may have been bigtime at one point, but they aren't now. They weren't when we played them or they wouldn't have been playing us in the Cotton Bowl.