Okay everyone, calm down

#1
Ohio Vol

Ohio Vol

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#1
As my username indicates, I'm an Ohioan. So I'll take just a second to (hopefully) calm down everyone on the coaching search and eventual hire.

Back after the 2000 season, Ohio State fired John Cooper after yet another bowl game disappointment. Their top candidates were a who's-who of coaching at the time. These included:
- Fred Pagac, OSU defensive coordinator
- Glen Mason, Minnesota head coach
- Mike Bellotti, Oregon head coach
- Walt Harris, Pitt head coach
- Tyrone Willingham, Stanford head coach
- Chris Spielman, ex-NFLer who had commitments from some of the best assistants in the country
- Jim Tressel, Youngstown State (1-AA) head coach
- Jon Gruden, Oakland Raiders head coach

When Tressel, who was at best the 7th choice (and well behind Mason and Spielman) was hired, there was an outcry for two reasons. The first was that he wasn't the first choice, and OSU fans refused to accept the idea of their school NOT being someone's first choice. The second was that, despite his success at the 1-AA level, it was regarded as small-school ball and therefore meaningless at the larger level.

At the same time, USC was going through their own hire. Here's a nice editorial link, accusing OSU's AD of making the same mistake as Mike Garrett at USC (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cEtPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=7wMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5751,314765&dq=) in hiring NFL washout Pete Carroll.

Regardless, there's the possibility that UT will not get its first choice, or second, or third. It's possible that the guy they hire ends up coming from the Big East, or the MAC, or even from 1-AA. And it may well end up being a lot better off that way. Look at the names listed above, and consider how many of them ended up doing anything notable in the ensuing four or five years...then compare that with what OSU (gag) did with their 1-AA coach.
 
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#4
#4
We just finished with our version of a Division 1-AA level coach. We're ready for a better experience.
 
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#5
#5
Ohio Vol said:
As my username indicates, I'm an Ohioan. So I'll take just a second to (hopefully) calm down everyone on the coaching search and eventual hire.

Back after the 2000 season, Ohio State fired John Cooper after yet another bowl game disappointment. Their top candidates were a who's-who of coaching at the time. These included:
- Fred Pagac, OSU defensive coordinator
- Glen Mason, Minnesota head coach
- Mike Bellotti, Oregon head coach
- Walt Harris, Pitt head coach
- Tyrone Willingham, Stanford head coach
- Chris Spielman, ex-NFLer who had commitments from some of the best assistants in the country
- Jim Tressel, Youngstown State (1-AA) head coach
- Jon Gruden, Oakland Raiders head coach

When Tressel, who was at best the 7th choice (and well behind Mason and Spielman) was hired, there was an outcry for two reasons. The first was that he wasn't the first choice, and OSU fans refused to accept the idea of their school NOT being someone's first choice. The second was that, despite his success at the 1-AA level, it was regarded as small-school ball and therefore meaningless at the larger level.

At the same time, USC was going through their own hire. Here's a nice editorial link, accusing OSU's AD of making the same mistake as Mike Garrett at USC (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cEtPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=7wMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5751,314765&dq=) in hiring NFL washout Pete Carroll.

Regardless, there's the possibility that UT will not get its first choice, or second, or third. It's possible that the guy they hire ends up coming from the Big East, or the MAC, or even from 1-AA. And it may well end up being a lot better off that way. Look at the names listed above, and consider how many of them ended up doing anything notable in the ensuing four or five years...then compare that with what OSU (gag) did with their 1-AA coach.
Click to expand...

We're well aware of what it's like to not get our 1st choice...or 2nd...or 3rd...or 4th....or 5th...or 6th....That's why we are where we are. I get your point though. It's just that, after the Dooley debacle, there are very few names that we can get truly excited about.
 
#8
#8
OP isn't advocating taking a chance on someone. He's just pointing out that Gruden isn't the only candidate that could succeed.
 
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#9
#9
Yes but the chances of a Div 1 - AA coach coming in and succeeding is mighty slim. Actually I think there are very few than can come in and succeed right now and that is the problem.
 
#10
#10
I remember the Ohio State search. I remember at the outset, alot of OSU folks thought they were going to get Bob Stoops to leave Oklahoma.

But the comparisons end there. Ohio State was in fine shape recruiting-wise and even in the win loss column. We're getting outrecruited by Vanderbilt and a Penn State program that just got the walking death penalty. We just got blown out by Vanderbilt on the field. Our biggest rival is on the verge or their 3rd national championship in 4 years. We haven't beaten Florida since 2004. Either we get an elite, top level coach now or they might as well slash prices to mid major program levels. This program is currently an irrelevant joke and plenty of us are sick of it.
 
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#12
#12
Special Ed said:
We just finished with our version of a Division 1-AA level coach. We're ready for a better experience.
Click to expand...

We didn't get a coach that knew how to win at any level. That's where the mistake was made. If a coach can win in 1-AA I think he could win in BCS school with the better players. DD couldn't win anywhere with any players!!!!!!
 
#16
#16
Excellent post!

I've practically quit posting here, because I find the quality of dialogue here to be so abysmal. Most of this board is incredibly short-sighted. The idea that Tennessee football is doomed if we don't get Jon Gruden or Peterson at Boise State (who I believe would be a terrible hire) is very off-base. But this is a great post.

People often forget about the "Pete Carroll Debacle." Carroll was maybe USC's 5th choice and the fanbase was furious over the hire, and ready to fire him after the first year. He ended up being the best college coach of the 00's.

I didn't know as much about Tressel's hiring, but this is great info. He was a I-AA coach and I can see why he wasn't considered the first choice. But he's been one of the most successful college coaches of the past decade.

Most of the names I see mentioned on here are unrealistic. It's not that Tennessee isn't a great job, but people who already have great jobs (Bob Stoops, Jimbo Fisher, Mike Gundy, etc) are not leaving what they have already built up to start all over. Even if those guys express interest, it's just so they get a raise at the current schools.

There are some great coaches that people are ignoring including Dave Doeran at Northern Illinois and Gary Andersen at Utah State. There are also a lot of guys in the NFL that could make a good HC at UT. And many of us here are barely aware of some of these coaches.

People keep saying "we can't take a risk with this hire." That's ridiculous. Every hire is a "risk." To pretend otherwise is foolish. Some of the high in-demand, supposedly "low-risk" coaches in previous searches have actually turned out not to be that great. What about Dan Hawkins at Colorado? Or Ty Willingham at Notre Dame? Or Franchione at Texas A&M?

The real problem with the Dooley hire is that there was absolutely nothing in his record to suggest that he was a good coach to begin with. He had one 8-5 season at a program that routinely went to bowl games. La Tech has actually traditionally been one of the better mid-major programs and they did not improve any under Dooley. Dooley never had a job as an OC or DC, or any track record of success at all. All he had was a mediocre record at a successful mid-level program, the fact that he coached under Saban, and that he was Vince Dooley's son.

Lane Kiffin, btw, was one of the hot, in-demand coaches when Tennessee hired him. I don't know if he was "first choice" but he was probably close. Not only was he a scoundrel, but he's not looking like all that great of a coach right now at USC.

So, we should just realize that we're taking a risk no matter what, and the important thing is finding a good coach that's a good fit. Our success depends on Dave Hart being able to make a good hire and knowing who's the right guy. And it may not be someone that the fanbase immediately loves.
 
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#17
#17
oregonvol said:
I remember the Ohio State search. I remember at the outset, alot of OSU folks thought they were going to get Bob Stoops to leave Oklahoma.

But the comparisons end there. Ohio State was in fine shape recruiting-wise and even in the win loss column. We're getting outrecruited by Vanderbilt and a Penn State program that just got the walking death penalty. We just got blown out by Vanderbilt on the field. Our biggest rival is on the verge or their 3rd national championship in 4 years. We haven't beaten Florida since 2004. Either we get an elite, top level coach now or they might as well slash prices to mid major program levels. This program is currently an irrelevant joke and plenty of us are sick of it.
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree with the idea of Ohio State being fine in terms of recruiting. Cooper's downfall was directly tied to his complete unwillingness to recruit in-state; it's not like we have 720 high schools that play football or anything. He couldn't beat Michigan, who regularly poached Ohio-bred talent (Desmond Howard and Charles Woodson being the most obvious). He was perfectly fine letting local kids walk away and go elsewhere, as long as he could reel in the kids from Texas, Florida, and California. We're not talking about one-star and two-star guys, we're talking about four- and five-star players. Antonio Hall, from one of Ohio's most storied programs, went to Kentucky and was a four-year starter. Na'Shan Goddard went to South Carolina and was a four-year starter. Michael Munoz went to Tennessee and was a four-yeaer starter. These are just three linemen, and all came out of Ohio within a two-year period and became four-year starters.

Part of the appeal of Glen Mason was that he was building Minnesota toward Big Ten contender status, but on the backs of the Ohio kids that Cooper didn't care about getting. He was getting elite athletes right out of the Columbus City League, right out from under Cooper's nose, and then using them against Ohio State. The rise of the MAC in the late 1990s was directly attributable to Cooper passing on the local kids, and seeing them go to places like Bowling Green and then into the NFL.

When Tressel got to Ohio State, he went out of his way to bring the high school coaches back into the fold. If a new coach was hired somewhere (anywhere), he was guaranteed to get a congratulatory card and letter from Tressel, along with a business card inviting the coach to call Tressel (actually, his secretary, but whatever) for anything football-related. It was a nice gesture, and plenty of coaches who'd been repulsed by Cooper appreciated it. It's the same stuff that Mack Brown had to do after replacing John Mackovic, who'd turned Texas from good ol' boy football into something derisively referred to as "The Tea-Sippers Club".
 
#19
#19
DiderotsGhost said:
Excellent post!

I've practically quit posting here, because I find the quality of dialogue here to be so abysmal. Most of this board is incredibly short-sighted. The idea that Tennessee football is doomed if we don't get Jon Gruden or Peterson at Boise State (who I believe would be a terrible hire) is very off-base. But this is a great post.

People often forget about the "Pete Carroll Debacle." Carroll was maybe USC's 5th choice and the fanbase was furious over the hire, and ready to fire him after the first year. He ended up being the best college coach of the 00's.

I didn't know as much about Tressel's hiring, but this is great info. He was a I-AA coach and I can see why he wasn't considered the first choice. But he's been one of the most successful college coaches of the past decade.

Most of the names I see mentioned on here are unrealistic. It's not that Tennessee isn't a great job, but people who already have great jobs (Bob Stoops, Jimbo Fisher, Mike Gundy, etc) are not leaving what they have already built up to start all over. Even if those guys express interest, it's just so they get a raise at the current schools.

There are some great coaches that people are ignoring including Dave Doeran at Northern Illinois and Gary Andersen at Utah State. There are also a lot of guys in the NFL that could make a good HC at UT. And many of us here are barely aware of some of these coaches.

People keep saying "we can't take a risk with this hire." That's ridiculous. Every hire is a "risk." To pretend otherwise is foolish. Some of the high in-demand, supposedly "low-risk" coaches in previous searches have actually turned out not to be that great. What about Dan Hawkins at Colorado? Or Ty Willingham at Notre Dame? Or Franchione at Texas A&M?

The real problem with the Dooley hire is that there was absolutely nothing in his record to suggest that he was a good coach to begin with. He had one 8-5 season at a program that routinely went to bowl games. La Tech has actually traditionally been one of the better mid-major programs and they did not improve any under Dooley. Dooley never had a job as an OC or DC, or any track record of success at all. All he had was a mediocre record at a successful mid-level program, the fact that he coached under Saban, and that he was Vince Dooley's son.

Lane Kiffin, btw, was one of the hot, in-demand coaches when Tennessee hired him. I don't know if he was "first choice" but he was probably close. Not only was he a scoundrel, but he's not looking like all that great of a coach right now at USC.

So, we should just realize that we're taking a risk no matter what, and the important thing is finding a good coach that's a good fit. Our success depends on Dave Hart being able to make a good hire and knowing who's the right guy. And it may not be someone that the fanbase immediately loves.
Click to expand...

Several excellent points as well.

Back many years ago, an NFL team in dire straits needed to make a "big splash" in order to return to its glory days. The top choice was the guy who'd just taken his perennial bottom-feeder to two Rose Bowls and a national championship, followed by the old coach who'd been forced out a few years prior, followed by a couple of other prominent names. They settled on an unknown NFL coordinator, who had only been a head coach at the high school level 15 years prior.

When he was recommended for hire, a man in the back of the boardroom raised his hand, stood up, and asked, "Who the hell is Vince Lombardi?"
 
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#20
#20
Regulator said:
OP isn't advocating taking a chance on someone. He's just pointing out that Gruden isn't the only candidate that could succeed.
Click to expand...

That's what I've been saying as well. Gruden is a great coach, but it's not like he's the only guy capable.
 
#21
#21
Whatever the case may be, whoever is hired has to keep our recruits in the state of Tennessee. I hear people talk about Phil Fulmer like a dog and it makes me sick! This guy bleeds Orange and if you knew him personally, you would agree that there is no person in this state that cares about UT more than he does. Is this an endorsement of Phil? No, but when Kiffin posted his season here, Phil would have had at least two more wins. Patience is not something Vols fans have an abundance of at this time. Do I think if PF came back that it would be a #hugefail? Hell no! Do I think that will happen? Hell No! At least Phil kept his in state recruits in state most of the time. Johnny Majors let two great players get out of the state. Antonio London and Jeremy Nunley and these are just two that I can recall this quickly. Anyone who thinks that "Mr. I will bring a National Title to Tennesse in 2 Years Johnny Majors" was a great coach, I have a huge plot of land in Europe that I will give you for free.

Now, I know the name says IrishFan but I do pull for the Vols. My father will be 65 in January and I want to see this man full of joy again like he was in 98. How do we get there? First things first. Whoever the coach is, the fan base has got to stop blasting this person every time he does something you disagree with. Second, there is no better recruiting tool than the fan base. How many high school games, quarterback clubs and other high school sports functions do we attend? We have to start there and push these coaches in this state to run more dynamic offenses and defenses so that our kids get the best exposure and training for the next level. I have been to high school games and it is pathetic. Run the ball 50 times throw it 5. You have to be involved in your community. I have offered my time to a school here in Murfreesboro to help with the special teams, kicking and punting. These schools are more than happy to have someone that knows skill positions to offer their free time to help develop these kids into great athletes. I know I am all over the place on this rant but I want to see UT succeed and bring in the best talent. But, when the best talent in the state is heading to UCLA, USC and Alabama, it pisses me off to no end that they are not even getting serious looks from UT. The fans can do a lot to improve this. That is all.
 
#22
#22
Yea but getting Gruden would be awesome!!! It would be like hiring Albert Einstein to run your science department that was previously run by a 4 year old.
 
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#23
#23
Ohio Vol said:
As my username indicates, I'm an Ohioan. So I'll take just a second to (hopefully) calm down everyone on the coaching search and eventual hire.

Back after the 2000 season, Ohio State fired John Cooper after yet another bowl game disappointment. Their top candidates were a who's-who of coaching at the time. These included:
- Fred Pagac, OSU defensive coordinator
- Glen Mason, Minnesota head coach
- Mike Bellotti, Oregon head coach
- Walt Harris, Pitt head coach
- Tyrone Willingham, Stanford head coach
- Chris Spielman, ex-NFLer who had commitments from some of the best assistants in the country
- Jim Tressel, Youngstown State (1-AA) head coach
- Jon Gruden, Oakland Raiders head coach

When Tressel, who was at best the 7th choice (and well behind Mason and Spielman) was hired, there was an outcry for two reasons. The first was that he wasn't the first choice, and OSU fans refused to accept the idea of their school NOT being someone's first choice. The second was that, despite his success at the 1-AA level, it was regarded as small-school ball and therefore meaningless at the larger level.

At the same time, USC was going through their own hire. Here's a nice editorial link, accusing OSU's AD of making the same mistake as Mike Garrett at USC (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cEtPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=7wMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5751,314765&dq=) in hiring NFL washout Pete Carroll.

Regardless, there's the possibility that UT will not get its first choice, or second, or third. It's possible that the guy they hire ends up coming from the Big East, or the MAC, or even from 1-AA. And it may well end up being a lot better off that way. Look at the names listed above, and consider how many of them ended up doing anything notable in the ensuing four or five years...then compare that with what OSU (gag) did with their 1-AA coach.
Click to expand...
I bet you voted for Obama, let's see how that works out for you!!! We need a big time hire or we will be bottom suckers for years to come.
 
#24
#24
Three things make our situation very different, perhaps unprecedented:

1) We have two strikes against us, coming off two horrid hires in Kiffin and Dooley that have left the fanbase divided, players discouraged, recruits wavering and our program at rock bottom. We can't afford a third strike; we need to land a top gun. And our AD hasn't shown that he can do that... or that he's willing to work with anyone else to do it now.

2) We just got saddled with NCAA probation for two more years, which means we can't chance taking a good coach with issues, like Tressel, Petrino or Davis, even though we could probably get them at a bargain and they have the skills to turn things around quickly.

3) There were four open jobs in the SEC, the most since 2004, plus a handful of other desirable jobs. We are competing against Auburn and Arky for top coaches, and this could drive the price up. We will probably end up overpaying for a coach, even if it's not the one we want.

The UT job is a great one, but the timing and circumstances aren't helping.
 
#25
#25
Volforlife60 said:
I bet you voted for Obama, let's see how that works out for you!!! We need a big time hire or we will be bottom suckers for years to come.
Click to expand...

You're 0/4 in two sentences.

Congratulations, you're the only person to actually be less successful than Mike Hamilton.
 
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