On the anniversary...Hiroshima

#1
CSpindizzy

CSpindizzy

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#1
Grateful to Harry

I looked at some comments from friends on Facebook. I never realized how many were soft and squishy on the issue about how we just needlessly killed.
 
#2
#2
Unless Japan was definitely going to surrender right away, the bomb seems like the obvious move.
 
#4
#4
The use of atomics as weapons is positively terrifying to many people. What the vast majority of them don't realize is that the death toll for a mainland invasion of Japan would have dwarfed that of the Fat Man & Little Boy.

And sorry to play favorites, the way we did it had those deaths skewed pretty good in favor of "our" side. I can hate the loss of life as a generality but given the circumstances I'd have done the same thing every time.
 
#5
#5
People usually aren't as upset about the first bomb dropped; more are upset about the felt need to drop the second one


(though I have seen some arguments that we could have dropped it on a nearby island for them to see and watch....as more of a "we're warning you; give up now or you're ****ed)
 
#6
#6
hndog609 said:
The use of atomics as weapons is positively terrifying to many people. What the vast majority of them don't realize is that the death toll for a mainland invasion of Japan would have dwarfed that of the Fat Man & Little Boy.

And sorry to play favorites, the way we did it had those deaths skewed pretty good in favor of "our" side. I can hate the loss of life as a generality but given the circumstances I'd have done the same thing every time.
Click to expand...

Well it was either going to be us or all those deaths were going to be the Russians from their invading first

(I'm not picking sides) I have read alot about though that the bombs were done more a) due to fears of a need to prevent USSR from taking over /expanding into Japan or b) that the second bomb was done also as a show of force to the Soviets of what we were capable of

(again, not picking sides; saying these are what's out there....more about the decision process there rather than "those poor people")
 
#7
#7
This debate will continue forever. Evidence in some aspect points to almost every theory out there. Some say it was a message to the Russians. Others say it was needed because there were no serious talks of surrender coming from the top. Others say talks of surrender were there but the US wanted unconditional surrender. Others say surrender was likely from the government but the Bushido culture still in the fighting forces needed one more incentive to ensure THEY would surrender.

Pretty much throw a dart at the reasons and you'd likely be correct in some regard.
 
#8
#8
I saw an interview with a former military guy and I think he was getting it from others involved first hand from the Japanese side.

Basically, he said that the Japanese government was telling people in places like Okinawa to throw themselves off cliffs because the U.S. soldiers would rape, burn, kill them. We took relatively few war prisoners as most never surrendered and fought to the death.

Either way, civilians were going to die - shame.
 
#9
#9
There was a huge movement in the US government with a thinking on the actual cultures of the people of Germany and Japan. This group, FDR included, thought the Germans as a whole were a very militaristic and racist people. The same logic went for Japan as well. This group thought it was the duty of the US to essentially 'correct' this thinking and bring both nations into the 'civilized' world. They thought that if this was not removed from both cultures, we along with the rest of the 'free world' would be fighting these nations every few decades.

So the logic to counter this was complete destruction - complete bombing. You see Dresden and Hamburg as two examples in Germany. The bombings focused more on civilian type targets as opposed to the purely military/industrial areas. The same went for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Needless to say the result was a demise of the Bushido culture in Japan and the end of an aggressive attitude in Germany. Both nations became drastically passive after the war.
 
#10
#10
I thought it was all about "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out." Am I wrong?
 
#12
#12
Watching the series "Pacific" on HBO gave me a whole new appreciation for how tough those guys had it over there. As vBham mentions, they were not going to give up and fought to the death.
 
#13
#13
hohenfelsvol said:
Watching the series "Pacific" on HBO gave me a whole new appreciation for how tough those guys had it over there. As vBham mentions, they were not going to give up and fought to the death.
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and the number of needless American casualties that exacted in taking craphole little atolls in the Pacific was plenty for us to know that we needed a better approach to the main islands.
 
#14
#14
hndog609 said:
The use of atomics as weapons is positively terrifying to many people. What the vast majority of them don't realize is that the death toll for a mainland invasion of Japan would have dwarfed that of the Fat Man & Little Boy.

And sorry to play favorites, the way we did it had those deaths skewed pretty good in favor of "our" side. I can hate the loss of life as a generality but given the circumstances I'd have done the same thing every time.
Click to expand...
Why would you be sorry. If the people in charge of our forces don't value our boys lives more than the lives of the other countries people, they shouldn't be in charge.
 
#15
#15
No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. - Patton
 
#18
#18
He's full of quotes. Someone who cares less about political correctness. Pure honesty. He's one of the few military leaders who was pure and managed to separate politics from the military thinking. He was paid to win the battles with whatever he was given. In his mind if you didn't like the casualties, give him men who didn't die so easily.
 
#19
#19
I see this issue as pretty much black and white. I would take it so far as to say dropping the bomb was the only moral choice. There is even an argument that we probably saved Japanese lives (both civilian and military) by doing so.

War is going to happen, despots are going to sacrifice civilians...getting it over with as quickly as possibly saves lives on both sides.
 
#20
#20
CSpindizzy said:
Grateful to Harry

I looked at some comments from friends on Facebook. I never realized how many were soft and squishy on the issue about how we just needlessly killed.
Click to expand...

1. All Japanese POW commanders were ordered to kill all American prisoners the minute we invaded. By dropping the bombs we saved those lives. Also, we onlly received about 40% of known POWs back from the Japanese, they were brutal to our POWs. We got back 98% of our POWs from Germany and a great deal of the remaining 2% were taken by Soviet forces but not returned to us, about 20,000 men.

2. Truman waited for the USSR to declare war on Japan before ordering the bomb drops. This was a needless concession to Stalin and we paid for that mistake a short time later in Korea.

3. We could possibly have had Hirohito witness a demonstration of the bomb in Arizona and he would have surrendered. Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I've spent many an afternoon and some evenings drinking pitchers of beer with Roosevelt's and Truman's personal emissarry to Hirohito, Stalin and Churchill and who would have met with Hitler except that involved an assassination attempt and Hitler was too suspicious to ever meet up.

4. Some claim Nagasaki, with no military value, was chosen because it had the highest Christian population of any city in Japan. Don't know if that is true but I was Baptised by a man who spent 19 years as a missionary to Japan and know more about the whole thaing than the averge clam.

Bottom line??

Anyone who wants to put a guilt trip on America for dropping nuclear bombs on Japan can kiss my rusty ass, and like it too!!!
 
#21
#21
gsvol said:
3. We could possibly have had Hirohito witness a demonstration of the bomb in Arizona and he would have surrendered. Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I've spent many an afternoon and some evenings drinking pitchers of beer with Roosevelt's and Truman's personal emissarry to Hirohito, Stalin and Churchill and who would have met with Hitler except that involved an assassination attempt and Hitler was too suspicious to ever meet up.
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Now, I'm not telling you that you don't know what you're talking about - but why wouldn't they have demonstrated the bomb for him at the Trinity test site in Almagordo? Why go to Arizona when they were assembled and tested in New Mexico?
 
#22
#22
let's renew interest and demonstarte the effectiveness on the Pakistan Tribal regions and portions of Afganistan that are harboring Bin Laden
 
#23
#23
In 2006 I had the pleasure of meeting a survivor of the Bataan Death March.

There was a soldier walking next to him that kept falling down. When he would help him up, the Japs would beat him and tell him to let him die. When beating him didn't keep this man from helping his fellow soldier, the Japs shot him and laughed. Vehicles would drive by the men marching with bayonets at the ready, slicing the mens throats and cutting off limbs as they walked.

The pain and suffering this man saw and went through was still very much alive so many years later.

Having said that, doing anything short of turning Hiro and Nagi into a parking lot would have cost many more American lives. If you ask me , they got what they deserved.
 
#25
#25
7thgroupvolfan said:
In 2006 I had the pleasure of meeting a survivor of the Bataan Death March.

There was a soldier walking next to him that kept falling down. When he would help him up, the Japs would beat him and tell him to let him die. When beating him didn't keep this man from helping his fellow soldier, the Japs shot him and laughed. Vehicles would drive by the men marching with bayonets at the ready, slicing the mens throats and cutting off limbs as they walked.

The pain and suffering this man saw and went through was still very much alive so many years later.

Having said that, doing anything short of turning Hiro and Nagi into a parking lot would have cost many more American lives. If you ask me , they got what they deserved.
Click to expand...

I had not heard of this until now. As a result of your post I googled the Bataan Death march. Sickening. My feelings about Hiroshima:)
 
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